Bullet most similar to Hornady HAP?

[cwsanfor]

I'm currently loading HAP 125gr 9mm for Glocks (so no lead bullets). I get HAPs for about $0.11 per round in bulk, but the wife has complained about my shooting costs, so I'm looking for everyday substitutes for that, VV powders, and Starline brass ...

Optimally, I'd love not to have to change or adjust dies, and use existing QuickLoad data when loading either HAP or a similar JHP. Does anyone know which is most similar to HAP: Precision Delta, Montana Gold, or Zero? I shoot about 75% inside, value a jacketed base to minimize lead exposure, and assume all these have a jacketed base.

Looks like I can get the PDs for about $0.08 per. Zero and MG seem a bit more.

Thanks.

[Joe4d]

all three are good, I wouldnt worry to much about being perfect match though, are you loading minor pf ? If so you wont have a problem just switching bullets as long as the new bullet isnt too long to feed. I loved HAPS in my 40 eagle, they seemed to be faster than PD or montanna gold and would shoot ragged one hole groups at 25 meters through my 6" eagle, Alas the supply dried up then prices went through the roof. So I use moly for limited, and precision delta for jacketed. Lots of good cheaper powders for 9mm jacketed, Any of the newer faster powders form Winchester, Tightgroup comes to mind, for lighter bullets clays may suit you also,

Edited September 6, 2011 by Joe4d

[cwsanfor]

(A)re you loading minor pf ? ... Lots of good cheaper powders for 9mm jacketed, Any of the newer faster powders form Winchester, Tightgroup comes to mind, for lighter bullets clays may suit you also,

Thanks, Joe. Loading minor, in fact, generally staying below 35,000psi and always below 38,500psi. I know, boooring.

Right now the MG's in case volumes are slightly cheaper than the PD, and there's some documentation that the MGs may be more consistent (http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=266934). So I ordered a case of those. Should only require a couple of adjustments in QL.

Powders, what you suggest and HP-38 come to mind. Looking at this QL report, from which I have removed powders I can't get in the USA, there's a pretty wide choice. I like PowerPistol (I wear sunglasses when shooting it), but I can get a velocity with about 4.0gr of HP-38 that takes about 6.0gr of PP. The chrono will tell.

Type........................... mc (gr)...fill (%)...vel (fps)

Accurate No.7.............. 7.8873 100.0000 1245.3287

Alliant BULLSEYE........ 4.5163 93.0000 1225.7675

Alliant POWER PISTOL 5.8042 100.0000 1206.8331

Hodgdon Universal........ 4.6846 100.0000 1196.4884

Vihtavuori N330............ 4.7706 100.0000 1194.0621

Alliant UNIQUE............. 4.7149 100.0000 1163.1111

Vihtavuori N340............ 4.8501 100.0000 1162.0575

Vihtavuori 3N37............ 5.6452 100.0000 1159.8597

Vihtavuori N320............ 4.1554 97.0000 1140.9904

Alliant GREEN DOT... . 4.0788 100.0000 1132.0629

Accurate Solo 1250...... 4.3730 100.0000 1127.0755

Vihtavuori N350............. 5.3271 100.0000 1117.9785

Accurate Solo 1000.... .. 3.9523 97.0000 1114.9924

Accurate No.9....... ...... 7.8396 100.0000 1100.5717

Alliant RED DOT.... ..... 3.6415 100.0000 1097.5416

Alliant HERCO............. 4.5877 100.0000 1055.3848

But it looks like I can save about $60/month based on 1000 rounds.

[Severian]

I'm currently loading HAP 125gr 9mm for Glocks (so no lead bullets). I get HAPs for about $0.11 per round in bulk, but the wife has complained about my shooting costs, so I'm looking for everyday substitutes for that, VV powders, and Starline brass ...

Optimally, I'd love not to have to change or adjust dies, and use existing QuickLoad data when loading either HAP or a similar JHP. Does anyone know which is most similar to HAP: Precision Delta, Montana Gold, or Zero? I shoot about 75% inside, value a jacketed base to minimize lead exposure, and assume all these have a jacketed base.

Looks like I can get the PDs for about $0.08 per. Zero and MG seem a bit more.

I recently experimented to answer this very question. I liked the HAPs but they were too expensive. I found that the DP JHPs were virtually identical in performance. Now, I use DPs in my STI Trojan and my M&P Pro. They are accurate and I have no feed issues whatsoever.

[shred]

I've used the Montana Gold 9/38 JHPs interchangeably with Hornady HAPs. They're almost identical accuracy-wise in my guns.

[gm iprod]

I have to agree with Shred.

The best 9mm in more guns taht I own is teh Sierra, The HAP is a close second. But with me driving it in matches and practice, I have to go with Zero and or MG. Zero are slow to supply. MG are a little quicker.

[noylj]

Severan: Who is DP? Never heard of them.

Thanks.

[PINMAN44]

CW:

I'm one of Zero's sponsored shooters. Recently they developed a 115 and a 125 grain JHP that is similar to the Hornady HAP bullet. I use both and they are very accurate.

If you are interested in trying their bullet call Alison and ask her for a sample.

Also: Hodgdon, Winchester, and IMR powders are cheaper than that of VV and are all I used because they have been my support system since I was very young. I think you can find a powder that will work very well for you and will be much more affordable.

Thanks,

Robby Orent

Edited September 9, 2011 by PINMAN44

[Severian]

Severan: Who is DP? Never heard of them.

Thanks.

Whoops. My bad. I meant PD (Precision Delta).

[cwsanfor]

CW:

I'm one of Zero's sponsored shooters. Recently they developed a 115 and a 125 grain JHP that is similar to the Hornady HAP bullet. I use both and they are very accurate.

If you are interested in trying their bullet call Alison and ask her for a sample.

Also: Hodgdon, Winchester, and IMR powders are cheaper than that of VV and are all I used because they have been my support system since I was very young. I think you can find a powder that will work very well for you and will be much more affordable.

Thanks,

Robby Orent

Thanks, Robby. Melissa said she'd see if they had any around and will send me a few to test. I ordered some of the MG's, and I will mike all three, load 4.6gr N330, chrono them, and post the results.

Wally

[BMartens]

CW:

I'm one of Zero's sponsored shooters. Recently they developed a 115 and a 125 grain JHP that is similar to the Hornady HAP bullet. I use both and they are very accurate.

Thanks,

Robby Orent

I just started working up a load for the #135 - 115 JHP bullet for 9 major. I have had great success with the round nose version for the last 6000 rds but I got a good deal on the new style.

So far they seem to be just as accurate. It takes .2 gr less of Silhouette to get the same velocity. I've loaded up a batch for a couple of matches this weekend. I'll see how they work pretty quick.

I also have a batch of 125 HAP and IMO you have to be careful to not mix them up. They look exactly the same as the new style Zero.

[PINMAN44]

CW:

I'm one of Zero's sponsored shooters. Recently they developed a 115 and a 125 grain JHP that is similar to the Hornady HAP bullet. I use both and they are very accurate.

If you are interested in trying their bullet call Alison and ask her for a sample.

Also: Hodgdon, Winchester, and IMR powders are cheaper than that of VV and are all I used because they have been my support system since I was very young. I think you can find a powder that will work very well for you and will be much more affordable.

Thanks,

Robby Orent

Thanks, Robby. Melissa said she'd see if they had any around and will send me a few to test. I ordered some of the MG's, and I will mike all three, load 4.6gr N330, chrono them, and post the results.

Wally

Wally,

Glad to hear it, they make a bullet very similiar to the HAP but Zero's price for a thousand is the same as Hornady's for 500. Hornady is a little pricey

[PINMAN44]

CW:

I'm one of Zero's sponsored shooters. Recently they developed a 115 and a 125 grain JHP that is similar to the Hornady HAP bullet. I use both and they are very accurate.

Thanks,

Robby Orent

I just started working up a load for the #135 - 115 JHP bullet for 9 major. I have had great success with the round nose version for the last 6000 rds but I got a good deal on the new style.

So far they seem to be just as accurate. It takes .2 gr less of Silhouette to get the same velocity. I've loaded up a batch for a couple of matches this weekend. I'll see how they work pretty quick.

I also have a batch of 125 HAP and IMO you have to be careful to not mix them up. They look exactly the same as the new style Zero.

Hey Barry,

Yeah they are extremely similar. Margaret and Allison had these out to me when they first came out and I compared then with some Hornady bullets my friend had. They looked very similar. For our sport though we don't need bullseye shooting bullets. Ball ammo is just fine.

I like the new bullet because it seems to load smoother. It is very accurate... not to mention aesthetically pleasing LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cwsanfor]

Margaret was good enough to send me some of the Zero JHPs, and they arrived the same day as a case of MG JHPs. I measured 50 of each for diameter, length, and mass, and was surprised that the standard deviations on the Zeros were considerably less than the HAPs (about one third as much deviation in mass, and about half the deviation in length and diameter), and also less than the MGs. I'm not sure if the difference going to be evident in groupings, evident over the chrono, or statistically significant, but as soon as the PD JHPs arrive (they are supposed to be in stock, so maybe this week), I'll load the 200 rounds, chrono them, and report here. If you are interested in details, they are in the Google Doc at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApfazXeV8cnBdFp5YlVOODNMTGZmS21XRC0xVEljU0E&hl=en_US .

I've forgotten my college statistics, so if anyone recalls what P-test or ANOVA I should run on that data, I'm all ears.

[noylj]

I always run a t-test. It looks at the mean and std. dev. to determine if the data meets the null test (not statistical difference between the sets of data) at a given confidence/fiduciary level.

ANOVA is comparing just the variance, as I remember.