Cooper Tunnel

[lndshrk]

It's got slats and you move through it, but I have yet to encounter it in any of the local matches. Could someone tell me what it's purpose is, what it simulates, and how to deal with it, when I hit one. Thanks!

[mactiger]

What a cooper tunnel is supposed to simulate is taking cover behind something low: something you'd have to crouch or squat to be concealed and covered by, like a couch or refrigerator or water trough. If you dislodge the horizontal top slats with your body, you get a penalty. If you dislodge them by striking an upright, or muzzle blast, no penalty. It's simply a physical challenge added to the shooting. I haven't seen one in years.

Troy

[ErikW]

That may be its purpose, but its effect is to piss off the older, heavier, and gimpier shooters.

[jkmccoy]

Dang, You guys really need to come to West Texas occasionally. We used a Cooper tunnel for the Texas State 3-Gun (in a pistol stage). Then in our April Club match we used the same tunnel for a shotgun side match. We have Cooper tunnels fairly often out here.

BTW Erik, Cooper tunnels also piss off tall shooters, shooters with bad backs, and shooters with bad knees (I guess those may have been covered under "gimpier"). That is of course my goal as a stage designer...piss off everyone.

Cheers,

Kelly McCoy

[Vince Pinto]

That may be its purpose, but its effect is to piss off the older, heavier, and gimpier shooters.

Heyyyyyyyy. I resemble that remark

[driver8M3]

anybody have a pic?

[GRD]

Here's one from TGO's site:

- Gabe

[driver8M3]

thanks for the pic....now i'll be ready if i run into one of them at a match....

[Vince Pinto]

thanks for the pic....now i'll be ready if i run into one of them at a match....

You should try to avoid "running into" them ......... it really hurts and you'll get penalties

[slavex]

huh doesn't look anything like I thought it would. not a surprise though.

[Skywalker]

huh doesn't look anything like I thought it would. not a surprise though.

The tunnel or the competitor?

[Garfield]

Hi,

I have just returned from Slovakia, where I RO-ed on the Mosquito Match.

It so happened that I was CRO on a stage which included a Cooper tunnel, so they are still used .

In the 300 pics we made in the past few days are also some of my stage including the Cooper tunnel.

If you want to see all the pics me and my friends made at the Mosquito Match, just visit My website.

[Garfield]

Updated previous message with some pics

[IPSCDRL]

Thanks for the pictures guys. We are currently in process of building a stage for the area 7 championship and a tunnel is central to our stage design. We had originally planned to utilize a Cooper type tunnel but when I solicited shooters on the unofficial IPSC list, the response was a loud groan from most people. I am not a small or agile shooter so if I build the tunnel to accommodate me then it should be OK for everyone. Or so I thought.

I think I only shot one match that included a Cooper tunnel and it was a long time ago. I would appreciate feedback from all of you on the use of CT’s in IPSC. I may end up not using a Cooper design, but there will be a tunnel of some sort on this stage. We built the bridge last weekend and I am going to be working on the start position prop this evening.

In our course, the tunnel is about 2/3 of the way through a long narrow field course with targets obscured by walls at the end of it. The plan was to have one target visible ONLY from inside the tunnel. Please give me your thoughts and suggestions either here or directly.

Thanks in advance.

[Neil Beverley]

IPSCDRL

I'm not a fan of Cooper Tunnels and I can't say that I've met any fans. It strikes me that they are often added as a gimmick because match designers are striving to find something different but in reality they create more moans than cheers.

I had dumped them completely from the IPSC Shotgun rules for a few years but they were brought back for 2004 so the the 3 IPSC disciplines would be in alignment.

Other than not liking them generally my main gripe is when they are included purely as a physical obstacle to pass through with no shooting involved during the process. You then require competitors to undertake movement while risking penalties and with no points to be gained. A non shooting problem with penalties! Ugggh!

If you feel you want to include one at least try to incorporate some shooting from the tunnel so there is a scoring purpose to the thing.

Just my humble (but strongly felt) opinion.

Coincidentally I've just reviewed a shotgun C of F for a UK match which was going to include a CT. The course description only stated that competitors had to pass through it during the C of F. So potentially Mr Gamey would expedite the stage by shooting all the targets and then saunter through the tunnel before the ULSC with no time penalty. Just something else to think about and fix.

I recommended (in this order of preference):

1. Bin it; or

2. Add/move a couple of targets that can only be seen/shot from within the tunnel; or

3. Physically build barriers to prevent competitors running around it so they have to go through it; and/or

4. Write the briefing so there is no doubt that the CT has to be travelled through before the last target is shot.

As an aside I seem to recall an interesting discussion a few months back about a gamey abuse of a CT and it would be worth searching for it to draw upon the opinions in that thread.

[Jim Norman]

As an aside, sort of, to the Cooper Tunnel discussion. A few years back at a 3-gun match there was a tunnel that was about 3-0 wide and 2-0 high, you crawled through it. It had construction netting, the orange stuff, for a top, so the RO could see you. It was a Zig-Zag-Zig sort of path and you had to shoot rifle from with-in. After you exited, you had to safe the rifle and shoot pistol.

The one thing I remember most was, make sure the muzzle break is outside the tunnel! Even without a roof, the echo/blast is awesome!

Neil is 100% correct, you want to make sure that there are targets that can only be shot from within, or that the course is set so the shooter must pass thru the tunnel.

I think it was Bend, OR at the Limited or Open Nationals last year that ther was a Cooper that could have been gamed by not passing through until after all the shots were fired.

If you build one, I suggest that you have sufficent overhangs so that it takes a fair wallop to dislodge a stick, Also, make it tall enough that OFG's can navigate it. The one I described above was in a different genre, not what I or most would expect at a USPSA or IPSC Match. It fit where it was and I'd do it again, but it doesn't fit that way here.

Jim

[GENE S]

The old Cooper Tunnel, yes I know of it. I have shot several of them

in my many years of IPSC. The Nationals, I forget the year, has used

it, as well as the Little Big Match out on Long Island.

If you are going to build one, keep it low (it is harder to get through)

and make sure that the ground beneath it is soft, (no rocks) hard on

the knees.

Gene

[IPSCDRL]

Thanks for the response Neil. I am aware of the possibility for gaming that has come up. I have already stated that;

In our course, the tunnel is about 2/3 of the way through a long narrow field course with targets obscured by walls at the end of it. The plan was to have one target visible ONLY from inside the tunnel.

[Garfield]

If you feel you want to include one at least try to incorporate some shooting from the tunnel so there is a scoring purpose to the thing.

Hi,

That's exactly what was possible on "my" stage.

Shooters could engage two targets to their left-hand side while moving in the tunnel, or they could choose to stand still at the exit, turn and then engage them, it was all up to them. I have seen very creative shooting on this whole (28 shots) field course !