Joe4d Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 can someone please explain how the magazine might be involved in this extraction problem? thanks. If the next round is too high it can cause too much drag on the extracting brass for the extractor to over come, over sized feed lips, super tight last round, bad mag catch, or wrong magazine catch slot could do it, (most of these have been eliminated.) when the slide is closed the top round in the magazine is being held down by the underside of the slide. at that stage there is no such thing as too high. the top round in the magazine can't affect the extracting case until the slide has moved far enough to the rear to allow the round in the magazine to rise upward. the case should be mostly or completely extracted by this time. theoretically, if the front of the underlying round rose especially fast under magazine spring pressure it might push up on the brass as it passes by, but it would have to be under tremendous force to overcome extractor tension. and certainly the rest of the underlying cartridge would not be able to move upward until the slide has cleared the magazine. around this time the extracted case will be engaged by the ejector - especially in many of our pistols with extended ejectors. The brass is getting half way extracted then coming off, so it it extracting to the position where the next round could effect it, but most things that could cause this have been eliminated in this case, Is it possible there is an ejector problem ? The brass is extracting fine, but the ejector isnt throwing out the brass so it stays in the chamber giving the apearance of a failure to extract, Is it possible everything is fine but the brass is hitting the sight mount and bouncing back into the chamber ? the OP's problem sounds like the classic extractor tension issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockWise Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 OK, I want to pick everyone's brain! I had a jammomatic open gun at out local match today, and would like some input as to what you all think might be the issue is. What is happening is the spent case is coming 1/2 out of the chamber and slipping off the extractor (Aftec). My first thought is the extractor is too loose. Opinons? Until today, this happened 3 times before in the last 1000 rounds fired. Today, I could fire no more than 4 in a row before it jammed I am also thinking it could be a mag issue, but it did it with every one of my mags, so I'm not sure on that one (ask me how I found that out ) I have attached a photo of one of the jams Thanks all! In short, I think your slide is clapping back with too much force. Either tighten your spring or lighten your load. Before you take my advice you should know I'm a total noob and I don't reload my own ammunition so I don't have as much "experimenting" ability to be sure about this. But here is what I know: Since I got my Jager Compensator I've been trying to figure out how to make it work with Factory Loads. Unfortunately the owner of the company hasn't even dared trying as the compensator is too effective in reducing recoil for most factory loads to cycle. (Explained to me via e-mail). We had a huge sequence of e-mails back and forth over the coarse of 3 trips to the shooting range with the compensator. He even sent me a couple of free recoil springs to try out since I was without a job (kind man). Basically... My 1st trip was with a factory spring and light ammo... The result was that with EVERY SHOT the casing would not eject but the slide was able to grab the next round in the magazine and therefore it would get stuck half open. I could then operate the slide by hand, ejecting the casing and loading the next round. My 2nd trip, I was using a lighter spring and 115gr. Blazer ammunition. Same problem, less frequent. Then I tried a box of 124gr. Blazers and only had 2 jams out of a box of 50x (not competition good yet). So on my 3rd trip I took 3 boxes of 147gr. Blazers and an even lighter spring. I shot several rounds and EVERY SINGLE SHOT failed to cycle because of the same exact problem you're describing. So I threw in a heavier spring. Now it was like before... the casing was not slipping but just failing to eject. So I threw the lighter spring in again and again it went back to shooting EXACTLY as you described on EVERY SINGLE SHOT. So in a nutshell... with 147Gr. and a 17LB spring... I did NOT have your problem. But with a 12LB spring (tweaked to be even lighter), the extractors were slipping off of the casing. Since you reload your own... maybe you're loading them just a tad bit too hot for your spring or maybe your spring has lost tension. Perhaps you should replace your recoil spring with a new one. I was able to reduce the strength and size on mine a LOT by leaving my slide open for a week with my Wolff spring but not so much with my ISMI. If you're using a Wolff -- I DEFINATELY suggest replacing the spring and seeing if that solves your problem. Pardon the faulty terminology. Good Luck, ~GlockWise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvipscshooter Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Stand by for testing. I thought I could get to the range today, but will be unable. Shooting for Thursday afternoon. I will post further details then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 can someone please explain how the magazine might be involved in this extraction problem? thanks. If the next round is too high it can cause too much drag on the extracting brass for the extractor to over come, over sized feed lips, super tight last round, bad mag catch, or wrong magazine catch slot could do it, (most of these have been eliminated.) when the slide is closed the top round in the magazine is being held down by the underside of the slide. at that stage there is no such thing as too high. the top round in the magazine can't affect the extracting case until the slide has moved far enough to the rear to allow the round in the magazine to rise upward. the case should be mostly or completely extracted by this time. theoretically, if the front of the underlying round rose especially fast under magazine spring pressure it might push up on the brass as it passes by, but it would have to be under tremendous force to overcome extractor tension. and certainly the rest of the underlying cartridge would not be able to move upward until the slide has cleared the magazine. around this time the extracted case will be engaged by the ejector - especially in many of our pistols with extended ejectors. The brass is getting half way extracted then coming off, so it it extracting to the position where the next round could effect it, but most things that could cause this have been eliminated in this case, Is it possible there is an ejector problem ? The brass is extracting fine, but the ejector isnt throwing out the brass so it stays in the chamber giving the apearance of a failure to extract, Is it possible everything is fine but the brass is hitting the sight mount and bouncing back into the chamber ? the OP's problem sounds like the classic extractor tension issue. so the cure for a magazine related cause to this type of malfunction is to use a weaker magazine spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Looks sorta like that is an SVI slide with a removable breech face , looks to me like the extractor isnt out far enough so maybe your breech face is loose or cracked in behind around the screw that holds it in; so it looks to me but Im old , one thing for sure is that extractor isnt out far enough the way your gun is in the picture. Jim/Pa Sailors Custom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The only way that I can agree that you have a mag related issue is if the base of the ramp of your barrel is contacting the magazine essentially stopping the barrel from fully dropping down. Check the front of your magazines and see if there are any light indentations on the front face of the magazine(s). If there are just take a file, or have a gunsmith do it, and take away some material from the base of the ramp until there is not contact. Measure the mags front to back, they should be around 1.265 to 1.270 (I will have to go see my notes but I am sure the #s are correct). If they are too long just put them in a vise and put a little tension on them until they are in spec. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) I had this issue with an aftec extractor. try it with only one spring. When i ran it with both springs it would do exactly what your saying. what would happen was it would be ok when 100% clean. but once just a little crud built up on the breach face or things got hot it would start to puke. I called them they said run one spring. I tried it and never had a problem again. Edited July 5, 2011 by Mat Price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvipscshooter Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Which spring should I remove, front or rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I removed the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvipscshooter Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 And the verdict is???!??!?!?!!? One new Aftec extractor and one new EGW extended ejector. After a little tuning and tweaking of both pieces by my friends at Cameron's Custom Guns, it now runs flawless. Ran 300 rounds through it today without one hiccup. Brass was is nice little piles and easy to pick up. Looks like yoshidaex was on the way to the answer by stating he thought the ejector looked too short. Thanks for all the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 HA guess what my gun did today that has functioned flawlessly for over 6000 rounds... lets just say I spent an hour fitting the firing pin stop and rolling the edges to fit a new aftec extractor... why does my gun always puke during a match and never in practice lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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