Having some trouble with my Tac Sol Upper

[ktm300]

I have a Tactical Solutions 22 upper I use for practice. I run it on my STI lower. I have a few thousand pretty much trouble free rounds through it. From the begining it did not like to run the Winchester bulk stuff but it ran the Federal Champion very well. Now I am starting to get a lot (6 or 8 per mag) of rounds that just don't go off. Most of the time I can reload the same cartridge and it goes off. I can run the same batch of ammo through my Kimber 1911 upper it runs pretty close to perfect.

Looking at the fired cases it looks like the hit on the edge of the case is pretty lite.

I gave the upper and lower a good cleaning and that did not produce any noticable change.

What should I be looking for?

I am pretty new to working on guns so please don't skip the simple stuff, I probably don't know it.

[Tom D.]

What should you look for? A Nordic Components upper LOL! The Tac Sol is notoriously un-reliable with 'match' type triggers. I didn't believe them & also found out the hard way.

[ktm300]

What should you look for? A Nordic Components upper LOL! The Tac Sol is notoriously un-reliable with 'match' type triggers. I didn't believe them & also found out the hard way.

So ditch the Tac Sol to some poor unsuspecting person and buy a Nordic is the fix? I guess a low priced lower with a "non match" trigger would be an option.

Anybody else have another idea?

[Robert King]

Mine runs like a dream with a milspec trigger. It runs pretty good with a Giesele (sp?) 3 Gun Trigger and not so good with a JP 3lb trigger.

[whistlepig]

Check firing pin channel for trash obstruction and firing pin tip for damage. That it ran for a while, then starting having trouble indicates something has changed. It could be ammo related, but if you are seeing evidence of a light strike, its prob not the ammo. Send me a PM if you need further. I'm not too far away.

[Tom D.]

Wanna buy ANOTHER Tac Sol upper?? I got one for sale. There was a thread on m4carbine.net about the Tac Sol .22 uppers & there was mention that Lon in their customer service dept. had had some success in tuning the uppers to work with 'match' triggers but would need your complete rifle. I have tried to contact him but no success as yet. You know, leave a message & we'll get right back to you.

[ktm300]

Wanna buy ANOTHER Tac Sol upper?? I got one for sale. There was a thread on m4carbine.net about the Tac Sol .22 uppers & there was mention that Lon in their customer service dept. had had some success in tuning the uppers to work with 'match' triggers but would need your complete rifle. I have tried to contact him but no success as yet. You know, leave a message & we'll get right back to you.

Hold on, I don't want to be that "poor unsuspecting person" the Tac Sol gets dumped on. (;0

Mine runs like a dream with a milspec trigger. It runs pretty good with a Giesele (sp?) 3 Gun Trigger and not so good with a JP 3lb trigger.

Well the STI is running a JP trigger, feels like a little more than 3lbs but.....

Check firing pin channel for trash obstruction and firing pin tip for damage. That it ran for a while, then starting having trouble indicates something has changed.

It was never perfect but it was a lot better than it is now so thanks for the suggestion, I will try it.

Honest, I don't mind it not being perfect as I get to practice my clearing drills. My Kimber 1911 top end is 95% and it has helped me get very good at clearing malfuntions. If I only shot my Colt I would never get any practice.

[ktm300]

I took the firing pin out and made sure it was clean an that there was no obstruction. I cleanded the upper and lower again just to be sure and went out for another try.

Out of 50 rounds 3 did not go off.

Here is a picture of one of the ones that did not go off. The firing pin is just not hitting it very hard at all. I guess the JP trigger and the Tac Sol just are not going to get along.

I put in a call to the Tac Sol tech support line to see if they had any suggestions.

Thanks for all the input guys.

[MickB]

My Tac Sol upper runs fine on a JP trigger/hammer.

Also runs fine on another lower with bobbed DPMS hammer and JP yellow springs.

You might have a little drag on the bolt, not allowing it to come fully into battery.

Look at the assembly immediately in front of the recoil spring.

Any marks there?

if so, you have some dragging going on.

Take a dremel felt wheel and polish up the sides to a nice mirror finish.

problem should go away.

Mick

[ktm300]

My Tac Sol upper runs fine on a JP trigger/hammer.

Also runs fine on another lower with bobbed DPMS hammer and JP yellow springs.

You might have a little drag on the bolt, not allowing it to come fully into battery.

Look at the assembly immediately in front of the recoil spring.

Any marks there?

if so, you have some dragging going on.

Take a dremel felt wheel and polish up the sides to a nice mirror finish.

problem should go away.

Mick

That is very nice to hear. When it runs I like the upper a lot.

I took the bolt back out and took a couple of shots of where I see it rubbing. All are around the back of the bolt where the recoil spring is. Just to make sure before I take out the dremel, that is the area you are suggesting that I polish?

[olp73]

I have a Tactical Solutions 22 upper I use for practice. I run it on my STI lower. I have a few thousand pretty much trouble free rounds through it. From the begining it did not like to run the Winchester bulk stuff but it ran the Federal Champion very well. Now I am starting to get a lot (6 or 8 per mag) of rounds that just don't go off. Most of the time I can reload the same cartridge and it goes off. I can run the same batch of ammo through my Kimber 1911 upper it runs pretty close to perfect.

Looking at the fired cases it looks like the hit on the edge of the case is pretty lite.

I gave the upper and lower a good cleaning and that did not produce any noticable change.

What should I be looking for?

I am pretty new to working on guns so please don't skip the simple stuff, I probably don't know it.

I had those same problemes.......the fix was using a mil-spec hammer spring. I also used JP trigger kit/yellow spring. There is a long tread in the forum about this exact problem.

[TRUBL]

On the bolt.....push the firing pin forward and see if it is protruding in the front.

It seems like a broken firing pin, but you say you've already had it apart.....so it is very possible that there is still some sort of obstruction.

You're upper should work just fine with the JP set up....STI uses a red JP spring, not a yellow.

From the one picture....it just looks like the pin is not able to forward as much as it should.

Tim

[ktm300]

On the bolt.....push the firing pin forward and see if it is protruding in the front.

It seems like a broken firing pin, but you say you've already had it apart.....so it is very possible that there is still some sort of obstruction.

You're upper should work just fine with the JP set up....STI uses a red JP spring, not a yellow.

From the one picture....it just looks like the pin is not able to forward as much as it should.

Tim

The firing pin protrudes to the edge of the cutout at the front of the bolt. I am not sure that is far enough but it seems to look OK. As I said, I am not much of a gunsmith so....

I will try and take a picture with it pushed as far forward as possible. The end of the firing pin seems to be intact it has a triangle tip on it with a flat spot that is about 1/3 the width of the end of the pin.

[MickB]

You can polish the area under the bolt that rides over the hammer as shown in your pic.

You must use a rounded hammer in these setups. Are you using a notched hammer, by chance?

The area I was referring to is the part right in front of the recoil spring assembly that sits on top of the bolt.

This part rides in the charging handle slot in the upper. Any drag here can stop the bolt coming fully forward.

Do you happen to have one of the CMMG "anti-jam" charging handles or filled the charging handle with epoxy to make one?

I ask because I've seen these types of issues before.

Mick

My Tac Sol upper runs fine on a JP trigger/hammer.

Also runs fine on another lower with bobbed DPMS hammer and JP yellow springs.

You might have a little drag on the bolt, not allowing it to come fully into battery.

Look at the assembly immediately in front of the recoil spring.

Any marks there?

if so, you have some dragging going on.

Take a dremel felt wheel and polish up the sides to a nice mirror finish.

problem should go away.

Mick

That is very nice to hear. When it runs I like the upper a lot.

I took the bolt back out and took a couple of shots of where I see it rubbing. All are around the back of the bolt where the recoil spring is. Just to make sure before I take out the dremel, that is the area you are suggesting that I polish?

[ktm300]

The area I was referring to is the part right in front of the recoil spring assembly that sits on top of the bolt.

Ok I get that now. I will look at it when I get home.

You must use a rounded hammer in these setups. Are you using a notched hammer, by chance?

Whatever came on the STI is what the lower has. From the description is says "JP Trigger Group". I looked up a picture of a notched hammer and will look at mine when I get home.

Do you happen to have one of the CMMG "anti-jam" charging handles or filled the charging handle with epoxy to make one?

No, just what came stock on the STI

By the way, the STI upper/lower runs 223/5.56 like a champ.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond. I will spend some more time on this tonight when I get home.

[ktm300]

OK so I polished the piece that runs in the charging handle to a brite mirror finish. I made sure there were no rough spots anywhere on the bolt or carrier. I made sure the breech and chamber were perfectly clean. I looked at the hammer and it is flat with no notch.

I took the firing pin out again and looked at it and it seems to be OK. It moves in the chanel with no resistance. I did notice that when pushed flush with the back of the bolt, the pit itself doesn't stick out very far. To get the tip even with the edge of the cutout that the shell fits in, the back of the pin needs to be pushed inside the bolt. I would guess this is by design as you would not want the pin to touch the breach face.

Anyway, after all that I cleaned and lubed it again and took it out with 75 rounds. The first thing I see walking out to shoot is a ground hog that has been tearing up my barn floor for a while. He is in the field about 150 yards out and 10 or 15 yards from the barn. TMALSS the gun may not run all that well but it shoots very well when it does. 1 shot = 1 dead ground hog. He got about 5 or 10 feet before he fell over dead. Sorry for the distraction but I was getting pretty sick of the holes in the barn floor.

So I cleaned up after the ground hog and went and set up some steel to shoot at. The gun is better but I still got 3 FTF out of the 75 rounds I shot.

I did get a call back from TacSol today but of course I was in a meeting and could not take it. I left another message.

This picture is with the pin pushed in as far as it will go.

[MickB]

Sounds like you're getting there. When you talk with Lon at Tac Sol, have him send you a couple of extractor springs, if not a new firing pin as well.

I'm wondering if the spring is weak, and the shell is slipping a little, meaning its getting hit by the lower beveled portion of the firing pin.

A cut down 10/22 extractor spring also works and you can use that to tune the extractor tension.

How is the ejection? If the empty case is just dribbling out, then that is a clue.

Also make sure the face of the chamber is clean and there is no crud stopping the bolt going fully forward.

Mick

OK so I polished the piece that runs in the charging handle to a brite mirror finish. I made sure there were no rough spots anywhere on the bolt or carrier. I made sure the breech and chamber were perfectly clean. I looked at the hammer and it is flat with no notch.

I took the firing pin out again and looked at it and it seems to be OK. It moves in the chanel with no resistance. I did notice that when pushed flush with the back of the bolt, the pit itself doesn't stick out very far. To get the tip even with the edge of the cutout that the shell fits in, the back of the pin needs to be pushed inside the bolt. I would guess this is by design as you would not want the pin to touch the breach face.

Anyway, after all that I cleaned and lubed it again and took it out with 75 rounds. The first thing I see walking out to shoot is a ground hog that has been tearing up my barn floor for a while. He is in the field about 150 yards out and 10 or 15 yards from the barn. TMALSS the gun may not run all that well but it shoots very well when it does. 1 shot = 1 dead ground hog. He got about 5 or 10 feet before he fell over dead. Sorry for the distraction but I was getting pretty sick of the holes in the barn floor.

So I cleaned up after the ground hog and went and set up some steel to shoot at. The gun is better but I still got 3 FTF out of the 75 rounds I shot.

I did get a call back from TacSol today but of course I was in a meeting and could not take it. I left another message.

This picture is with the pin pushed in as far as it will go.

[smokshwn]

I didn't read the whole thread so I apologize if I am repeating advice.

Your STI has a JP trigger with the yellow hammer spring. I was experiencing the same symptoms you describe in your first post (also running a JP trigger with yellow hammer spring). Switching to the JP RED hammer spring cured all the problems. My TacSol upper has been perfectly functional with all of the ammo I have run in it since.

[ktm300]

I didn't read the whole thread so I apologize if I am repeating advice.

Your STI has a JP trigger with the yellow hammer spring. I was experiencing the same symptoms you describe in your first post (also running a JP trigger with yellow hammer spring). Switching to the JP RED hammer spring cured all the problems. My TacSol upper has been perfectly functional with all of the ammo I have run in it since.

I just looked and my STI already has the red trigger spring in it. Kind of nice JP color codes them so it's easy to see.

After taking the pictures of the firing pin and seeing that it doesn't come out as far as I thought it was, I am starting to wonder if that is the issue. I am pushing the pin from behind till it stops. Is it coming out far enough?

[smokshwn]

Pushing it out with your finger is not always an indicator as to how far it protrudes due to the fact that it relies on some inertia to reach it's full travel. From what I see in your pic the pin travel appears ok but you don't know how far the hammer strike is causing it to go forward.

Get in touch with Lon when you can. My experience with TacSol has been great. Since these uppers (even Nordic's) go on so many different rifle lowers there are many problems that can arise. It is usually just a little trial and error that gets them working well with each individual's setup. This is where the Manufacturer is a great help as they have a broader base of experience.

[45shooter]

Had same problems with mine. Sent it back they told me it was fixed. First five rounds didn't go off when I got it back. We cut the bolt face back and I also put a stronger extractor spring in it. It now runs 100% with good ammo. Also shoots .75 at 75 yards. I run the Ar gold trigger in it and have had no problems.

[TRUBL]

The Dimension you are looking for....barrel face to breech face is .045" anymore than that is not really a good thing. The firing pin should, when pushed out with your finger should come to within about .010" of the face of the barrel.

It looks like your firing pin is coming up short.

Yes....STI uses the red JP spring and that should be fine as well. As long as that lower is functioning with a CF upper.....you're problem is with the Rimfire upper and the lower is not the issue.

You are having WAY to light of strikes and by the looks of the one picture, it does lead me to believe that you either are running in to a head space issue (.045") or you still have something from keeping that firing pin go all the way forward.

And....if this upper once ran about 100% and now doesn't......I would look at any possible thing in the bolt or firing pin that is keeping it from going it's full travel forward.

Tim

[ktm300]

The firing pin should, when pushed out with your finger should come to within about .010" of the face of the barrel.

you're problem is with the Rimfire upper and the lower is not the issue.

You are having WAY to light of strikes and by the looks of the one picture, it does lead me to believe that you either are running in to a head space issue (.045") or you still have something from keeping that firing pin go all the way forward.

Tim

I took the firing pin out again and removed the spring. Without the pin that holds it the pin will come out way past the face of the bolt so I don't think there is an obstruction there.

I put the pin back in but did not put the spring back in. The front of the firing pin gets very close to the face of the bolt. I cleaned the chanel the pin runs in with a pipe cleaner and did not get much out of there.

I flipped the spring around and the pin does seem to be coming out a bit farther so I will take it out and try again.

I don't think I would try to fix a headspace issue so at this point I guess I have to wait for Tac Sol to call me back to see what they will try and do with this. They must be pretty busy as it seems to take a day or two to get a call back from them. Of course they called after 2 days and I had stepped away from the phone so......... Now I am waiting for another call back.

[ktm300]

Tech from TacSol called and the upper will be on it's way to them on Monday.