Gary H. Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Shot the Missouri state IDPA match this past weekend and had a stove pipe jam on this stage. http://www.youtube.com/user/GaryHernJr?feature=mhee#p/u/8/WBt7mDmunmM Tried finding my bullet to see what the possible cause was but could not with the next shooter coming up and the time needed to get strapped into the chair. This has happened only 1 time before and it's been awhile with a different load. Does anyone have an idea of what may cause this? I am shooting reloads, 147 BBI- 3.2 N320 @ 1.16 - 1.34 OAL. I'm getting a wide swing in the OAL of these bullets because I believe the flat point is of different diameters, but with other loads I have been able to shoot from 1.08 to 1.45 with this shape bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 It seemed to only happen when shooting one handed while swinging in a chair...don't do that! Are you running the stock springs? What PF does that load give you? Have you tried intentionally limp-wristing it to see if you can reproduce it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Light load or recoil spring too strong for loads. Bulged case- enough to chamber but not enough to eject properly? Extractor issue? Check the end of the ejector to see if it's ok. When I had extraction problems with my 1911, I had no idea what was going on. Then years later I realized my reloads were at 165pf but my recoil springs were stock... duh! The stock recoil springs are for factory loads which are usually over 180pf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary H. Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 I'm running an 11 pound spring with a slightly reduced length striker spring. My PF is right at 131. The round was stuck in the magazine almost straight up. It clearly didn't feed it's way out of the mag properly and the slide was resting against the side of the brass with the lead angled toward the chamber. There was no way it was going to feed. It doesn't appear that the prior shot was overly fast and the magazine spring should be ok. (I think). Might need to order a few replacements. This gun has around 3000 rounds through it and if that was the #2 mag, it probably had around 500 - 600 rounds through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary H. Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 LOL, if it was caused by limp wristing because of hanging in the chair. I'll probably not be doing that again in the forseeable future! I wasn't doing too bad on the stage timewise or scorewise. I was only 7 down at the finish but I lost track of where I was when the jam occured and dumped more rounds than I needed downrange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 looked like it was probably caused by the goofy position you were in. And, btw, make sure to get your finger out of the trigger area when reloading or clearing jams (:23, :38, :52) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Shot and had a stove pipe jam I am shooting reloads, 147 BBI- 3.2 N320 @ 1.16 - 1.34 OAL. I'm getting a wide swing in the OAL of these bullets because I believe the flat point is of different diameters, but with other loads I have been able to shoot from 1.08 to 1.45 with this shape bullet. Don't believe I could get anything that measures 1.34" into any of my 9mm's. 1.16" is already getting close to the limit, I think. If cartridges are too long, wonder if that might cause a stove pipe? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary H. Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 That was a typo. should have been 1.116 to 1.134 Shot and had a stove pipe jam I am shooting reloads, 147 BBI- 3.2 N320 @ 1.16 - 1.34 OAL. I'm getting a wide swing in the OAL of these bullets because I believe the flat point is of different diameters, but with other loads I have been able to shoot from 1.08 to 1.45 with this shape bullet. Don't believe I could get anything that measures 1.34" into any of my 9mm's. 1.16" is already getting close to the limit, I think. If cartridges are too long, wonder if that might cause a stove pipe? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 hmmm i always thought a stove pipe was the empty brass from the shot just fired. and i think you are talking about the next live round pointing up. is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary H. Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 You are correct RWF. The spent casing had ejected and the next live round failed to feed properly. To me a stove pipe meant a stuck tubular piece sticking up in the air. I have no idea of correct terminology, way too new to pistol shooting. The base of the bullet was still in the mag and the projectile was sticking pretty much straight up causing the mag to stick with the force of the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 The load is simply too light (M&Ps have a fairly heavy slide (heavier than a G34, for example)). Change your seater stem so that it contacts the side of the bullet, not the nose, and your OAL will vary much less. With such a big range of OAL, and such a small capacity case, you're getting wide swings in pressure/velocity, and some are probably no higher than 120PF. Get the OAL fixed, bump the load to 135+PF, and see what happens. The slide simply isn't getting far enough past the next round to strip it properly out of the mag. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary H. Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 The load is simply too light (M&Ps have a fairly heavy slide (heavier than a G34, for example)). Change your seater stem so that it contacts the side of the bullet, not the nose, and your OAL will vary much less. With such a big range of OAL, and such a small capacity case, you're getting wide swings in pressure/velocity, and some are probably no higher than 120PF. Get the OAL fixed, bump the load to 135+PF, and see what happens. The slide simply isn't getting far enough past the next round to strip it properly out of the mag. R, Wow, two guys at our club are shooting the BBI's with 2.9g of N320 and not having the issue. As far as changing the seater stem. I tried both the round nose and the flat nose and I'm getting the same results. I believe it's because of variations in the bullets from manufacturing. I've got about 2200 rounds left of them and am going to Zeros and MGs for important matches because of the issues. I've been running mine quite low (like 119 - 122) on PF prior to getting the chrono and hadn't had a problem previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 It's the 11# recoil spring combined with a light load. I do not recomend ever using anything other than the factory recoil spring and turn your load up until your gun functions with it. I thought we reload our own ammo so we can tune it to our guns, when we try and tune our guns to run these mouse fart loads, these things happen I am not trying to be a smart a$$ here, but if you want to win your equipment has to be 100%, not riding on the ragged edge function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speculatorking Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 What is the factory recoil spring weight for the 9L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 It's the 11# recoil spring combined with a light load. I do not recomend ever using anything other than the factory recoil spring and turn your load up until your gun functions with it. I thought we reload our own ammo so we can tune it to our guns, when we try and tune our guns to run these mouse fart loads, these things happen I am not trying to be a smart a$ here, but if you want to win your equipment has to be 100%, not riding on the ragged edge function. I agree... to a point. No reason for bunny fart loads and running to close to the edge.. however I don't think it's necessary to run full power loads in our competition guns so no need for factory springs in many cases. My G34 runs all day long at 130pf, same for my G21 at 165 +PF. In both guns I have reduced recoils springs. My G34 spring is 14lbs (factory 17lb) and my G21 is at 15lbs. Factory 45 ACP loads are up over 180pf so it makes sense that I can get the same slide speed with a slightly reduced recoil spring. I will 110% agree with you though... your equipment has to 100%!!! If I have 1 problem in 2500 that is way too much for me. Unreliability will F you in a match and worse- inhibit your ability to develop any confidence at matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 What is the factory recoil spring weight for the 9L it seems to depend who you ask most say 15 but it seems a little heavier to me. but it has been awhile sense i was caliberated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary H. Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 Your calling a 131 PF load a bunny fart? I thought that was a reasonable load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary H. Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 And, btw, make sure to get your finger out of the trigger area when reloading or clearing jams (:23, :38, :52) Its the camera angle. With my grip, if I hold my finger out straight and don't rest it on the frame above the trigger, that is where it's at. There is one frame that is questionable when I finally get the new mag in where I may have bent the trigger finger the rest of the time, my finger was not in the trigger guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Your calling a 131 PF load a bunny fart? I called it a mouse fart, but that was when we were talking 120 on the long loaded ones that are sneaking in, 131 I would quialify as a bunny fart The recoil spring being too light to return the gun to battery is the real problem here, that is why you had the nose up jam. Likely a overly long round that would likely chrono a 120 (acording to G-man) certainly contributed by short stroking the slide. One last thing, when I chrono I aim for my lowest/ slowest round to be a 130. I do not care about averages, I want to know that if the moon and the stars aligned and the chrono guy got my 8 worst rounds I'd still be shooting for score. I'd be willing to bet if you use my way to chrono, the stock springs will work out perfect, and the gun will run, even if your butt is slung from a tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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