RifleShooter Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) I recently found out that I have Parkinson's Disease, which is making my already weak left hand weaker. As such I have a hard time holding certain things, especially large things. I am building a rifle that will serve many purposes, but I hope to shoot a lot of 3 gun matches. I am looking for triangular, delta shaped, trapezoidal, basically anything but plain round handguards. I have no interest in rails, except perhaps a small section for a front sight, depending on the configuration. Quad rails are right out. I will be using an 18 or 20 inch barrel with rifle length gas, so this would be in a rifle length, carbine lengths need not apply. So far I have seen very few things, and here is a list: PRI Delta - pricey, but very nice. Light weight, shape is great, very comfortable in my hand. Potential downside in that the upper rail is not in line with the rail on the upper. Wish there were a plain version of this like the target version of their round tube. Magpul MOE - very comfortable, very inexpensive. Not a free float system, which is disappointing, but in reality I don't really know how much of an issue this would be. Anyone tried free floating these with a National Match float tube? Badger Stabilizer - very comfortable, but heavy. It has apparently been discontinued, which would make finding one a challenge. old style M16 triangle - never tried them. Should I? I was recently at a gun show, and I could not find anything but the PRI and Magpul. I had not tried either before, and was pleasantly surprised. The only other thing I found of note was some sort of quad rail that had removable side and bottom rails. I think it was called Diamondhead, but I had not heard of them. Without the rails, the tube was pretty small, and actually was pretty nice to hold. It looks like this would be similar to the Troy TRX Extreme or any of several other similar systems with removable rails. I still think something relatively flat on the bottom is better for me. So, my question is, does anyone know of any other options? My wife and I were discussing my options, and I was telling her that I could buy something to get started, and upgrade later. Surprisingly she told me that I should do it right the first time and be done, so now the only problems are knowing what to get, and waiting long enough to afford the parts. Money is not the primary consideration, but it is still important. Even so, I would like to know what options are out there. Thanks! Arnie Edited May 23, 2011 by RifleShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esskay Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Lancer has an octagonal carbon fiber handguard coming out this summer. Check it out here: http://www.lancer-systems.com/PDFs/LCH_Flyer.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Have you thought about a vertical or angled fore-grip? http://store.magpul.com/prod_detail_list/88 http://store.magpul.com/prod_detail_list/106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 You can buy an M16 "vietnam era" kit from a couple places on the net. this will have what you want. Sometimes you can get a vintage SP1 for sale on gunbroker or local gun shop. gun shows will not have anything unless they are really big and well attended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I appreciate the input so far. I tried the Magpul AFG, and it did not work well for me. I have tried a couple of vertical foregrips, and I am not really sure about them. I am going to try an adapter that let's you use an A2 pistol grip as a foregrip, which looks interesting. How much effect would a non-free float solution have on POI? I do not expect to use a shooting sling in 3 gun matches, but in other situations I might. I understand that pressure on the barrel can affect accuracy, so I guess the question would be by how much? With a heavy contour 18" or 20" barrel, how much can I change the point of impact by using a tight sling? I understand that the variability of the pressure exerted by the sling is the real problem, but I am wondering whether anyone has data on how much variance one might expect to see. I like the look of the Lancer octagon, but I don't expect I will see any around here once they are out. Anyone want to loan me one so I can try it out? . Maybe Lancer could send me a prototype? Thanks guys, and if anyone else has input, please speak up! Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I use a stubby grip on my SBR but dont grip it with my hand around the grip. I shoot a thumbs forward with this setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 PRI Delta is available without rails. I got mine that way and love it. Saves some money that way also.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinT Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I appreciate the input so far. I tried the Magpul AFG, and it did not work well for me. I have tried a couple of vertical foregrips, and I am not really sure about them. I am going to try an adapter that let's you use an A2 pistol grip as a foregrip, which looks interesting. How much effect would a non-free float solution have on POI? I do not expect to use a shooting sling in 3 gun matches, but in other situations I might. I understand that pressure on the barrel can affect accuracy, so I guess the question would be by how much? With a heavy contour 18" or 20" barrel, how much can I change the point of impact by using a tight sling? I understand that the variability of the pressure exerted by the sling is the real problem, but I am wondering whether anyone has data on how much variance one might expect to see. I like the look of the Lancer octagon, but I don't expect I will see any around here once they are out. Anyone want to loan me one so I can try it out? . Maybe Lancer could send me a prototype? Thanks guys, and if anyone else has input, please speak up! Arnie Don't bother with non free float HGs. For almost all long range shots you'll be using some kind of improvised support and there's no telling what it'll be. I've shot an SP1 AR (light barrel, triangular HGs) in hi-power slung up and the POI can change up to 6" at 100 yards. Same for a Garand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 PRI Delta is available without rails. I got mine that way and love it. Saves some money that way also.? It is? Where did you find it? Their website does not show one. I saw the round target model, but not the delta. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 Don't bother with non free float HGs. For almost all long range shots you'll be using some kind of improvised support and there's no telling what it'll be. I've shot an SP1 AR (light barrel, triangular HGs) in hi-power slung up and the POI can change up to 6" at 100 yards. Same for a Garand. Thanks, that is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Some configurations are not specified in the catalog. Give them a call, they will provide you what you want. You may even be able to get it without holes as well. This also saves a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9943/Product/AR_15_NM_FREE_FLOAT_BARREL_SLEEVE looks like A2, performs like FF. should be able to retro install triangular handguards on it. Edited May 24, 2011 by ken hebert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) How about a MOE on a Young free float tube? (Edit to add, I see you asked about it. I've been thinking about trying it with a rifle length MOE, but since It's not something I NEED to do, it's money better spent elsewhere.) http://www.youngmanufacturing.net/store.php?pg1-cid43.html Edited May 24, 2011 by cas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) How about a MOE on a Young free float tube? (Edit to add, I see you asked about it. I've been thinking about trying it with a rifle length MOE, but since It's not something I NEED to do, it's money better spent elsewhere.) http://www.youngmanufacturing.net/store.php?pg1-cid43.html I keep seeing float tubes like this, and most of them say you need modified handguards. This one says you can use standard service rifle handguards. Can anyone give me the real scoop? Would I have to modify the MOE handguards to use then with the Young float tube? Not sure what the total weight would be, but I certainly like the feel of the MOE. Edited to add: I have emailed Young to ask about using other handguards, as well as the weight of the tube. I will post that info if/when I get a response. Edited May 24, 2011 by RifleShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn_fsu Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Have you looked at Vltor rails? http://www.vltor.com/casv-sub.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) How about a MOE on a Young free float tube? (Edit to add, I see you asked about it. I've been thinking about trying it with a rifle length MOE, but since It's not something I NEED to do, it's money better spent elsewhere.) http://www.youngmanu...?pg1-cid43.html I keep seeing float tubes like this, and most of them say you need modified handguards. This one says you can use standard service rifle handguards. Can anyone give me the real scoop? Would I have to modify the MOE handguards to use then with the Young float tube? Not sure what the total weight would be, but I certainly like the feel of the MOE. Edited to add: I have emailed Young to ask about using other handguards, as well as the weight of the tube. I will post that info if/when I get a response. Are you gonna shoot High Power or 3 Gun. If you are gonna shoot High Power, get Glen Zediker's book about The Competitive AR. Nobody slings up in 3 Gun. Shooting an SP1 using your hand to cradle the gun on a rest or log or barricade is fine. Bushmaster, Rock River (as posted above), DPMS used to have, and Fulton armory have free floated handguards of a modified kind. No free float tube will configure with A1 triangular handguards. Only A2 and almost all of those are round or modified round. A2s are round. PRI Delta handguards are for piston guns, that's why they are so big. If you really want light and small PRI rifle length are great. You said you wanted triangular. The majority of ARs are not free floated and work just fine. It is more important that the gun fit your hands and body. Unless you are gonna shoot high power. You could try Daniel Defense modular handguard. Best in the business at the moment, except for PRI carbon fiber. If you have a lot of money and know a really good armorer with a machine shop-you could do anything you want. I'm talking stock parts here. Edited May 24, 2011 by Jadeslade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp73 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 PRI Delta is available without rails. I got mine that way and love it. Saves some money that way also.? +1 I think they also make custom lenght handguard on recuest. call them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennygss Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 The Badger is quite nice. http://www.brownells.com/1/1/47609-ar-15-stablilizer-handguard-rifle-stabilizer-handguard-badger-ordnance.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogberry Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Advanced Technology has an 8 sided handguard. I haven't seen one in person or heard much about them. Website is atigunstocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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