Vlad Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 When you pick up the timer to run your squad mates, you are holding someone's life in your hand. Get your head on straight and make sure your only job is to make sure all safety rules are followed. The shooter may be your buddy, you might have known him forever, but that doesn't mean you give him breaks when he screws up. It mostly certainly does not mean that you don't pay attention if did or did not unload his handgun at the end of stage. It absolutely does not mean that just because an RO can't be DQ'ed for fracking up that he doesn't have a moral responsibility to make sure that the shooter does not walk away from the firing line with a loaded gun he doesn't even know is loaded, and to only later find out about it at the safe table as a round is ejected from the gun and lands on said table. What if the shooter distracted enough to not unload his gun, just bags it and takes home, and hurts someone while "cleaning" their gun, how would you feel then? Oh yeah, and just because the shooter you failed is your buddy, it doesn't mean you argue with the (fuming) match director when your buddy gets DQ'ed for your failure. The rule book may place the ultimate responsibility on the shooter, but if you pick up that timer stay awake and get your shit together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Sounds like a very bad situation could have been much worse. I too think RO's sometimes get a little lax in their duties and I'm not a big fan of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfchorn Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Wow. Just.....wow. Makes my toes curl thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Damn......I can not say that I am not surprised though. I have seen some ROs that seem to be more concerned with talking to the other squad members and they just go through the motions with the shooter before and after a run. Definitely a scary situation. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I think Kevin said it best.......wow. And for the shooter to not check his own firearm....double wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 That's why I litterally Grab the timer when I get to a stage..even if there are 12 shooters in front of me. I'll run 10 shooters myself, then have somebody take over to run the guy before me and myself. sorry but I want to see clear, slide forward, hammer down holster.. myself. Plus, by the time I get to shoot..I know the stage lol my regiment: Range is going hot!! Shooter, step into the box and take an unloaded sight picture if you choose, if not load and make ready. Give me a nod when your ready Shooters ready Standbye Show clear, slide forward, hammer down, holster. Range is safe. I'm starting to get guys asking me to run them and getting alot of thank you's at the range now.. Alot guys just don't say the commands loud enough...everyone needs to know what step in the process your at for safety reasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 That's why I litterally Grab the timer when I get to a stage..even if there are 12 shooters in front of me. I'll run 10 shooters myself, then have somebody take over to run the guy before me and myself. sorry but I want to see clear, slide forward, hammer down holster.. myself. Plus, by the time I get to shoot..I know the stage lol my regiment: Range is going hot!! Shooter, step into the box and take an unloaded sight picture if you choose, if not load and make ready. Give me a nod when your ready Shooters ready Standbye Show clear, slide forward, hammer down, holster. Range is safe. I'm starting to get guys asking me to run them and getting alot of thank you's at the range now.. Alot guys just don't say the commands loud enough...everyone needs to know what step in the process your at for safety reasons... I know you mean well, but you are not giving the proper range commands... kind of old school aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) my regiment: Range is going hot!! Shooter, step into the box and take an unloaded sight picture if you choose, if not load and make ready. Give me a nod when your ready Shooters ready Standbye Show clear, slide forward, hammer down, holster. Range is safe. No offense, but you may want to brush up on rules 8.3.1 through 8.3.7. Like Dan said, I know you mean well, but the official range commands will cover everything you have on your list, but the bonus of being official. Edited May 13, 2011 by CZinSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildot1 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I'm in agreement, it's a task not to be taken lightly! Once I give the command to "make ready" I don't take my eyes off the gun until the range is clear command is given. I may concentrate on it to hard since on several occasions I could not tell if the shooter had engaged a target or not?? There are only one set of "range commands" and I don't read anywhere that they are open for modification. If everyone uses the CORRECT ones there is less room for error on the shooters part. Mildot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avezorak Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Shooter, step into the box and take an unloaded sight picture if you choose, if not load and make ready. Yea and it is legal to take a loaded sight picture if the shooter chooses to do so. I am really glad I took the RO class last summer. Its helped me become a better shooter by learning the rules better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glefos Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 That's why I litterally Grab the timer when I get to a stage..even if there are 12 shooters in front of me. I'll run 10 shooters myself, then have somebody take over to run the guy before me and myself. sorry but I want to see clear, slide forward, hammer down holster.. myself. Plus, by the time I get to shoot..I know the stage lol my regiment: Range is going hot!! Shooter, step into the box and take an unloaded sight picture if you choose, if not load and make ready. Give me a nod when your ready Shooters ready Standbye Show clear, slide forward, hammer down, holster. Range is safe. I'm starting to get guys asking me to run them and getting alot of thank you's at the range now.. Alot guys just don't say the commands loud enough...everyone needs to know what step in the process your at for safety reasons... You need to pass the timer to someone else. Grabbing the time starts with being able to use proper range commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 The 'problem' that occurs with using 'additional' language in the range commands is that on occasion, and this has happened to me, you will get a shooter that does not understand English other than the commands. He steps into the box and you start chattering and he pulls out his gun, he is accustomed to the command string, he hears you start and so far as he knows your accent is so bad that he 'understands you to have said "Make Ready" when in reality you are asking him how his day has gone, or telling him about the rules that he should already be versed in. Then since you didn't say "Make Ready" and he has pulled his gun out, you stand there having to DQ him. Write the commands down, tape them to the timer if needs be, read them VERBATIM, same goes for the WSB. OK, the shooter that does not understand English, how does he handle the WSB, my experience is that he is usually there with a friend that will translate for him, but he Commands are given in English World Wide. That said, your dedication and the fact that you watch the gun and verify it as being clear is a good thing. Just do the proper commands and leave the chatter for the after match BBQ. Make Ready Are You Ready Standby BEEP If You Are Finishd, Unload and Show Clear If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster Range is Clear! Between the BEEP and IYAF,ULSC, you should only say FINGER, MUZZLE or STOP. And generally if the shooter is an experianced shooter, FINGER and MUZZLE are not used, particularly MUZZLE as it can be distracting and the shooter may have his plan to runt he 179.99 line to get a particular shot off. RO, the guy with the timer, runs the shooter, he watches Muzzle. CRO or the guy with the clipboard SHOULD be watching for Foot Faults, Muzzle, and other infractions and for REF. If an REF occurs he should be stopping the shooter as soon as possible so that the shooter doesn't wast ammo or time and the problem can be rectified and keep the match on schedule. Just my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenite Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Just my $0.02 I just passed the RO exam this week and I would say that is a pretty good $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 That's why I litterally Grab the timer when I get to a stage..even if there are 12 shooters in front of me. I'll run 10 shooters myself, then have somebody take over to run the guy before me and myself. sorry but I want to see clear, slide forward, hammer down holster.. myself. Plus, by the time I get to shoot..I know the stage lol my regiment: Range is going hot!! Shooter, step into the box and take an unloaded sight picture if you choose, if not load and make ready. Give me a nod when your ready Shooters ready Standbye Show clear, slide forward, hammer down, holster. Range is safe. I'm starting to get guys asking me to run them and getting alot of thank you's at the range now.. Alot guys just don't say the commands loud enough...everyone needs to know what step in the process your at for safety reasons... You're joking right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avezorak Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Just my $0.02 I just passed the RO exam this week and I would say that is a pretty good $0.02 I agree. Thanks Jim, very well put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Anything other than standard range commands mess me up.....I know the routine now and really don't want weird stuff thrown in. I think they are standard for a reason, and that's safety. We all know what to do and what will happen next. Save the jibber jabber for when I don't have a loaded gun. Just my .02$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I still use the old school commands a lot. I use them when I am the first person to RO a squad, if I hear the new commands first I will follow them. I get to hear about it every month from Jim or one of the other certified ROs at the club. It is a hard habit to break with calling it out the old way. I guess I should just break down and become an RO already. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) I'm here to learn..... it's what everyone else has said to every match i've been to at these ranges in AZ What should be said then? What are the correct range commands? edit* nevermind found it in the rule book.... I've only shot one USPSA Match...so there you go. Those commands are what's being said at the steel shoots I do on thursday nights at local ranges in phx.... Not the Nationals for Area 2 I will use the officials commands stated in the book at all ranges. Thanks for the heads up Edited May 14, 2011 by OpenDot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 The 'problem' that occurs with using 'additional' language in the range commands is that on occasion, and this has happened to me, you will get a shooter that does not understand English other than the commands. He steps into the box and you start chattering and he pulls out his gun, he is accustomed to the command string, he hears you start and so far as he knows your accent is so bad that he 'understands you to have said "Make Ready" when in reality you are asking him how his day has gone, or telling him about the rules that he should already be versed in. Then since you didn't say "Make Ready" and he has pulled his gun out, you stand there having to DQ him. Write the commands down, tape them to the timer if needs be, read them VERBATIM, same goes for the WSB. OK, the shooter that does not understand English, how does he handle the WSB, my experience is that he is usually there with a friend that will translate for him, but he Commands are given in English World Wide. That said, your dedication and the fact that you watch the gun and verify it as being clear is a good thing. Just do the proper commands and leave the chatter for the after match BBQ. Make Ready Are You Ready Standby BEEP If You Are Finishd, Unload and Show Clear If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster Range is Clear! Between the BEEP and IYAF,ULSC, you should only say FINGER, MUZZLE or STOP. And generally if the shooter is an experianced shooter, FINGER and MUZZLE are not used, particularly MUZZLE as it can be distracting and the shooter may have his plan to runt he 179.99 line to get a particular shot off. RO, the guy with the timer, runs the shooter, he watches Muzzle. CRO or the guy with the clipboard SHOULD be watching for Foot Faults, Muzzle, and other infractions and for REF. If an REF occurs he should be stopping the shooter as soon as possible so that the shooter doesn't wast ammo or time and the problem can be rectified and keep the match on schedule. Just my $0.02 Thanks for that post!! Much appreciated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avezorak Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 The 'problem' that occurs with using 'additional' language in the range commands is that on occasion, and this has happened to me, you will get a shooter that does not understand English other than the commands. He steps into the box and you start chattering and he pulls out his gun, he is accustomed to the command string, he hears you start and so far as he knows your accent is so bad that he 'understands you to have said "Make Ready" when in reality you are asking him how his day has gone, or telling him about the rules that he should already be versed in. Then since you didn't say "Make Ready" and he has pulled his gun out, you stand there having to DQ him. Write the commands down, tape them to the timer if needs be, read them VERBATIM, same goes for the WSB. OK, the shooter that does not understand English, how does he handle the WSB, my experience is that he is usually there with a friend that will translate for him, but he Commands are given in English World Wide. That said, your dedication and the fact that you watch the gun and verify it as being clear is a good thing. Just do the proper commands and leave the chatter for the after match BBQ. Make Ready Are You Ready Standby BEEP If You Are Finishd, Unload and Show Clear If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster Range is Clear! Between the BEEP and IYAF,ULSC, you should only say FINGER, MUZZLE or STOP. And generally if the shooter is an experianced shooter, FINGER and MUZZLE are not used, particularly MUZZLE as it can be distracting and the shooter may have his plan to runt he 179.99 line to get a particular shot off. RO, the guy with the timer, runs the shooter, he watches Muzzle. CRO or the guy with the clipboard SHOULD be watching for Foot Faults, Muzzle, and other infractions and for REF. If an REF occurs he should be stopping the shooter as soon as possible so that the shooter doesn't wast ammo or time and the problem can be rectified and keep the match on schedule. Just my $0.02 Thanks for that post!! Much appreciated.. Great attutude! Lots to learn in this sport. I spent my first year using totally wrong commands until I took the class. It really is great that you are willing to work though. A lot arent willing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 The 'problem' that occurs with using 'additional' language in the range commands is that on occasion, and this has happened to me, you will get a shooter that does not understand English other than the commands. He steps into the box and you start chattering and he pulls out his gun, he is accustomed to the command string, he hears you start and so far as he knows your accent is so bad that he 'understands you to have said "Make Ready" when in reality you are asking him how his day has gone, or telling him about the rules that he should already be versed in. Then since you didn't say "Make Ready" and he has pulled his gun out, you stand there having to DQ him. Write the commands down, tape them to the timer if needs be, read them VERBATIM, same goes for the WSB. OK, the shooter that does not understand English, how does he handle the WSB, my experience is that he is usually there with a friend that will translate for him, but he Commands are given in English World Wide. That said, your dedication and the fact that you watch the gun and verify it as being clear is a good thing. Just do the proper commands and leave the chatter for the after match BBQ. Make Ready Are You Ready Standby BEEP If You Are Finishd, Unload and Show Clear If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster Range is Clear! Between the BEEP and IYAF,ULSC, you should only say FINGER, MUZZLE or STOP. And generally if the shooter is an experianced shooter, FINGER and MUZZLE are not used, particularly MUZZLE as it can be distracting and the shooter may have his plan to runt he 179.99 line to get a particular shot off. RO, the guy with the timer, runs the shooter, he watches Muzzle. CRO or the guy with the clipboard SHOULD be watching for Foot Faults, Muzzle, and other infractions and for REF. If an REF occurs he should be stopping the shooter as soon as possible so that the shooter doesn't wast ammo or time and the problem can be rectified and keep the match on schedule. Just my $0.02 Thanks for that post!! Much appreciated.. Great attutude! Lots to learn in this sport. I spent my first year using totally wrong commands until I took the class. It really is great that you are willing to work though. A lot arent willing Thanks. I am here to learn, if i'm doing something wrong I really want to know why and how to correct it. I'm new to this sport and have lots to learn. This forum has a great bunch of people unlike other forums where you get bashed for being wrong instead of trying to help educate them. I taped the range section of heh rule book on commands to my fridge....now all the guys at the range are gonna be mad at me for not doing it redneck style anymore Thanks for the education lesson guys, much appreciated!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adively Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) OpenDot, I am very glad that you are willing to learn. I find that I still have to open the the rule book to 8.3 every so often to confirm that I have the phrasing and sequence correctly. Have you read the sticky at the top of the BE USPSA Rules Forum? Also, I highly encourage you to see if there is an RO class in your neck of the woods and go to it. Edited May 14, 2011 by adively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 OpenDot, I am very glad that you are willing to learn. I find that I still have to open the the rule book to 8.3 every so often to confirm that I have the phrasing and sequence correctly. Have you read the sticky at the top of the BE USPSA Rules Forum? Also, I highly encourage you to see if there is an RO class in your neck of the woods and go to it. I just joined USPSA a month ago. I've started to read the rule book last night. I'll check that thread out. I'd love to do the RO class as well. Thanks for the info!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 There are plenty of RO's that suck. There are many ways for that rating to be earned. I hate it when RO's say things like I will give it to you. It is either a hit or it is not. Call it and call it right and leave it at that. What is "given" to one shooter is taken away from other shooters. This is not figure skating or boxing that comes down to the judges. The time and the score are objective. Safety violations should never happen. The guy with the timer is there to make sure everyone is safe. Watch the gun and do it right. It is not that hard to do it right, but it is important that it is done right every time. We are there to have fun and be safe, and neither of these things are to be compromised for the other. The great things is neither one has to be compromised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adively Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 OpenDot, I am very glad that you are willing to learn. I find that I still have to open the the rule book to 8.3 every so often to confirm that I have the phrasing and sequence correctly. Have you read the sticky at the top of the BE USPSA Rules Forum? Also, I highly encourage you to see if there is an RO class in your neck of the woods and go to it. I just joined USPSA a month ago. I've started to read the rule book last night. I'll check that thread out. I'd love to do the RO class as well. Thanks for the info!! Check your PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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