When is a Concealment Garment required?

[jdknotts1]

Are concealment garments required during some matches and not others? I've watched videos where some have a vest on and others just a tucked in tee shirt. When is it required and when is it not?

Also, I used a vest for my last shoot. It is a bit short. No one said anything to me. Is this something most match directors or range officers dont give much care to? I got a state match coming up and I dont want them to make a big deal of it at the last minute. If its even required.....

[GSWEAR]

A cover garment is not required for the classifier first off and other than that a cover garment is usually needed for scenario based stages and not for standards or skill based stages.

I think other than the classifier it's kinda up to the match director, some clubs require a cover garment for everything except the classifier.

Greg

Edit: If you are going to shoot a sanctioned match you need to make sure everything is by the book, garment, gun, ammo making power factor etc.

they may have a full blown tech inspection or a partial or nothing but if they have anything and anything fails it's a DQ and your done.

Edited April 16, 2011 by GSWEAR

[Steve Koski]

Concealment is required when the COF description tells you to use concealment. Otherwise it's optional.

Some SO's may let bad concealment be used, not call procedurals, and make other mistakes.

Koski

[double_r76]

From the rule book under "Course of Fire Rules":

CoF 13. Use concealment for scenario stages when appropriate. Exception: Police or military officers when using actual duty gear.

I think the most reasonable time when cover isn't appropriate is when you start a stage without your pistol in the holster (table start, in bed, etc.). If you don't have your gun, then there isn't really anything to conceal.

-Randy

Edit to add - The classifier is not a scenario stage, hence concealment is not required.

Edited April 17, 2011 by double_r76

[kellymc]

At our local matches we quit wearing cover when the temp. reaches about 95. unless someone makes fun of the M.D. stages or shooting.We also let one 9 year old shoot without cover but after a couple of matches she showed up with a vest.

Edited April 17, 2011 by kellymc

[gringop]

A cover garment is not required for the classifier first off and other than that a cover garment is usually needed for scenario based stages and not for standards or skill based stages.

I think other than the classifier it's kinda up to the match director, some clubs require a cover garment for everything except the classifier.

Greg

"not for standards or skill based stages."

Can anyone provide anything from the rulebook or from IDPA HQ that supports this statement?

It's my understanding that the only time when concealment is NOT required is when the Stage Description indicates that it's NOT. Even when it's 105 degrees outside, why can't the shooter don his concealment garment before LAMR and take it off after UASC. As far as table, or bed starts, you still need to reload from underneath your concealment garment.

Gringop

[double_r76]

From the rule book under "Course of Fire Rules":

CoF 13. Use concealment for scenario stages when appropriate. Exception: Police or military officers when using actual duty gear.

-Randy

Edit to add - The classifier is not a scenario stage, hence concealment is not required.

"not for standards or skill based stages."

Can anyone provide anything from the rulebook or from IDPA HQ that supports this statement?

Gringop

What? Am I chopped liver?

The rules state that concealment must be worn for scenario stages when appropriate. The classifier is not a scenario stage.

-Randy

[GSWEAR]

What? Am I chopped liver?

And mine was to be taken as more a rule of thumb and not a rule book quote hence the word "usually" a little bit before what was quoted.

As already posted the COF description should state whether or not a cover garment is required.

Greg

Edited April 18, 2011 by GSWEAR

[steel1212]

All the COF I've seen has a little side tab that has "conealement: Yes or No".

[Jim Watson]

Concealment is required when the COF description tells you to use concealment. Otherwise it's optional.

Some SO's may let bad concealment be used, not call procedurals, and make other mistakes.

Koski

I think it is the other way around.

Concealment is required unless the CoF says it is not.

"Standard" is not a magic word relieving you of the need for concealment. If the MD and SO want to run standards from under concealment, you may not say them nay. Only the Classifier never requires concealment.

I have trouble with people who only put on their concealment while shooting.

If you actually wear a gun to town, you can't open carry just because it is hot (most jurisdictions.)

If I were SOing a stage and you said "Wait a minute while I put on my vest." my response would be "Next shooter, are YOU ready to go?"

Probably why I don't get recruited to SO any more.

[mikegot38]

Concealment is required when the COF description tells you to use concealment. Otherwise it's optional.

Some SO's may let bad concealment be used, not call procedurals, and make other mistakes.

Koski

I think it is the other way around.

Concealment is required unless the CoF says it is not.

"Standard" is not a magic word relieving you of the need for concealment. If the MD and SO want to run standards from under concealment, you may not say them nay. Only the Classifier never requires concealment.

I have trouble with people who only put on their concealment while shooting.

If you actually wear a gun to town, you can't open carry just because it is hot (most jurisdictions.)

If I were SOing a stage and you said "Wait a minute while I put on my vest." my response would be "Next shooter, are YOU ready to go?"

Probably why I don't get recruited to SO any more.

In some states, including PA, open carry is legal.

[Steve Koski]

The use of concealment or not is up to the match director, and should be clearly stated in the COF description. Nobody should have to guess. The concealment requirement should also be discussed during the COF walk through with each squad.

What am I missing? This is not a difficult issue.

Koski

[double_r76]

"Standard" is not a magic word relieving you of the need for concealment. If the MD and SO want to run standards from under concealment, you may not say them nay. Only the Classifier never requires concealment.

Is there any basis for this claim? The only reference I see states concealment must be used on scenario stages when appropriate. Unless they want to rewrite their standards as scenario stages, then concealment is not required.

What am I missing? This is not a difficult issue.

Agreed. The rule book is pretty black and white on this one to me, too.

-Randy

[bigjimmy57]

Most of the folks that I shoot with me including myself only wear the vest to matches. Georgia is a open carry state but I never do. I just wear a long shirt over my gun. The shoot me first vest screams I'm carrying a gun

Edited April 20, 2011 by Duane Thomas

[jdknotts1]

My vest is a tad short. I got a state match coming up and dont want to get dq'd or have a ton of pts down for a short vest. Is this something they really harp on? Have you ever seen a match director or SO do a "scarecrow test"?

[jdknotts1]

My youtube channel is jdknotts1. Check out my last vid and let me know what you think about the vest. I really dont feel like buying a vest just for shooting.

[Cd662]

"I have trouble with people who only put on their concealment while shooting.

If you actually wear a gun to town, you can't open carry just because it is hot (most jurisdictions.)"

I don't want to wander into dark territory, but individuals such as myself don't conceal carry. I usually keep my concealment garment on anyway (either a jacket or a large, buttoned shirt) but...

"If I were SOing a stage and you said "Wait a minute while I put on my vest." my response would be "Next shooter, are YOU ready to go?"

With no inflammatory tone required, does it really take most shooters who are already ready to go (with magazines, gun, holster) to put on a vest? Most of the ones I've seen can put it on in a few seconds. I'm personally more irked when you are trying to keep the day moving and have to chase someone down because they wandered off, aren't paying attention, never loaded their magazines, etc. I don't SO but, I would skip those shooters in that case.

[Jim Watson]

It doesn't take long to put on a vest if you are carrying it in your hand.

It takes a while to come to the line, be told LAMR before somebody notices, go back to your gun cart, get the vest, put it on, get back to the firing line and settle in again.

The second scenario is more common around here.

Oh, yeah, scenarios. Koski is right, the rule mentions concealment only for scenario stages. Unfortunately it neglects to define scenario versus standard. I am sure everybody now considers El Presidente to be a standard. But it allegedly came out of a real incident, no doubt edited to fit the range, but with a story line ("scenario") behind it.

Me? If the CoF says concealment, I wear concealment. If it says nothing on the subject, I wear concealment, often even if somebody asks and is granted permission to shoot without. If it says concealment optional, I don't wear concealment.

[gringop]

I think it is the other way around.

Concealment is required unless the CoF says it is not.

"Standard" is not a magic word relieving you of the need for concealment. If the MD and SO want to run standards from under concealment, you may not say them nay. Only the Classifier never requires concealment.

I agree with you completely

I have trouble with people who only put on their concealment while shooting.

If you actually wear a gun to town, you can't open carry just because it is hot (most jurisdictions.)

I do a lot of things on the range that I don't do in town, like run around behind guys shooting guns with my timer held high in the air, for 3 or 4 hours in the heat of the Texas August sun. I find that I last longer, am more alert and make better decisions when I don't have 2 layers of shirt on. That way I shoot better when I do have 2 layers of shirt on.

If I were SOing a stage and you said "Wait a minute while I put on my vest." my response would be "Next shooter, are YOU ready to go?"

Probably why I don't get recruited to SO any more.

I do the same thing. That why we tell everyone to prep when they are the shooter on deck.

Gringop

[double_r76]

Oh, yeah, scenarios. Koski is right, the rule mentions concealment only for scenario stages. Unfortunately it neglects to define scenario versus standard. I am sure everybody now considers El Presidente to be a standard. But it allegedly came out of a real incident, no doubt edited to fit the range, but with a story line ("scenario") behind it.

I must be invisible in this thread... Koski has not mentioned scenarios, not even once!

Regarding scenario v. standard, have you checked the glossary?

Scenario stage: CoF designed to simulate a real life encounter.

Standard Exercises: Stages that do not depict possible real life

encounters but do test skills that could be needed in a real life

encounter. The IDPA Classifier is a standard exercise.

-Randy

[GForceLizard]

Every course description should say concealment required or concealment not required. But the fact is sometimes they don't. Now what do you do? Since the rule book does not say, you need to ask the match director. Otherwise some squad will do it the other way. Believe it or not every squad is not going to come to the same conclusion. Some scenarios are obvious, no need to use those as examples. What do you do if it's 3 targets, no movement, with 3 strings of fire? But says nothing about a concealment garment. Can I assume this is standards, no garment required?

FWIW. My answer is concealment required unless the description says it's optional.

[hankfan79]

My vest is a tad short. I got a state match coming up and dont want to get dq'd or have a ton of pts down for a short vest. Is this something they really harp on? Have you ever seen a match director or SO do a "scarecrow test"?

Yes. All the time. Just shot the Alabama State Championship and they did it on the very first stage.

Also pulled 6 bullets off our hip for chrono but that is another story in itself.

Always take concealment to every stage. You never know when it is going to be needed or not. More often used than not.

Sometimes at our local matches 95+ degrees, we don't wear it. It will always be worn at majors.

[bigjimmy57]

My youtube channel is jdknotts1. Check out my last vid and let me know what you think about the vest. I really dont feel like buying a vest just for shooting.

Botachtactical.com has the Eotac vest on sale for $15. Its about the cheapest vest I've seen.

[sirveyr]

Also pulled 6 bullets off our hip for chrono but that is another story in itself.

Ooh ooh...what's the story behind it.

[hankfan79]

Also pulled 6 bullets off our hip for chrono but that is another story in itself.

Ooh ooh...what's the story behind it.

Story being always be prepared for anything. Never assume they are not going to check gear and/or ammo.