Which way to go with 9 mm Major OPEN build

[Freddie the Swede]

As the title says:

I'm gonna rebuild my 38 Super OPEN gun when I run out of brass.

Now i need your thoughts regarding which way to go from here.

Please have in mind that I shoot with the international IPSC power factor 160 for OPEN.

And also note that I have access to free brass (once shot)

Ejection will not be a problem since I use a Quinn C-more mount.

And I have the following parts to choose from.

Option one: Storm Lake 5" barrel and Brazos cone comp

Option two: Schuemann 4 hole hybricomp 5.5" bbl and either a Brazos thundercomp II (4 chambers and bleeder holes at the sides) or Bedell Steel comp (Three chambers and four side ports.

The Brazos comp is a bit lighter than the Bedell which might be an advantage

Caliber 9 mm Major

Bullets 124 TMJ

Powders that I can use are: Vectan SP2, Withavouri 105, 350, 3N37, 3N38

Primers Federal SP or SR. I'm currently use SP and have zero problems with them in 38 super.

Brass: Fiocchi, Sellier & Belliot, Magtech all once shot police brass that I get for free

Man thanks

Freddie

Edited March 3, 2011 by Freddie the Swede

[diehli]

This: Storm Lake 5" barrel and Brazos cone comp, Vectan SP2, Fed SRP.

[CocoBolo]

This: Storm Lake 5" barrel and Brazos cone comp, Vectan SP2, Fed SRP.

+1 go with the Brazos.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I hate to say it but go with the cone comp/barrel setup. Those big holes in the Schuemann barrel will just take more powder and weight more than the other setup. I have not tried the Brazos comp I have yet since I am still waiting on a barrel Thanks, Eric

[Jon Merricks]

Like Eric, If those are your only 2 options go with #1.

[Freddie the Swede]

Ok, I get the point but what I really need is a WHY?

I have no trouble loading a lot of powder and free have access to all the brass I need for 9mm.

I also have no problem with a loud gun.

Is the general opinion that the hybricomp gun would be to heavy? or just to loud? The people that I have talked to all says that the gun would be really loud and really flat shooting if I go with the hybgricomp Option.

The same guys say that the cone version would be more or less the same that I have just a different caliber.

I have been shooting a cone comped 38 super for the last 20 year in both 1911 and 2011 configuration and am looking for a flatter shooting gun. My current setup is a standard caspian slide with a 5,5" nowlin barrel and a four chamber comp from the old days. No lightning cut what so ever.

Current load is 9,2 grains of Vectan SP2, Federal SP primer and 124 grain Tmj bullets. Factors out around 173.

So an honest opinion would be?

Heavy gun with lots of holes or a lighter gun with fewer holes???

//Freddie

[Walküre]

Ok, I get the point but what I really need is a WHY?

I have no trouble loading a lot of powder and free have access to all the brass I need for 9mm.

You may not mind loading large powder charges, but the 9mm case might. In general, you will see less gas from 9mm Major than .38 Super, as you will be using smaller powder charges in the smaller case. If you have lots of big holes, then you are going to tend to need more gas to get things running flatter. Gas that isn't as available in 9mm as compared to .38S.

[Jon Merricks]

Just an opinion not scientific fact, but I think the 4 big holes would render the comps you have listed as almost useless. I think that coming from a 9 there would be little to no gas after the first chamber so essentially that would make them for decoration only. If you need a little down force with option 1 you can always add the hole(s) later and shooting 160pf I doubt you will.

[818-DVC]

You will never get a 9 to run flatter or as smooth as a .38.

Hybrid barrel ports and a brazos 11 port comp with 9x19.

Is major even possible with such little case volume???

[Mad Scientist]

Just a thought,

I have been running a 3 port hybrid with 5 additional 3/32 holes in various locations along with a 5baffle comp that has 6 side ports .

I run a 167 power factor and believe this is by far the flatest shooting gun I have ever shot . I am on my 10th open rig in 10 years.

Have had a caspian framed gun,sti,svi,glock and am now shooting a CCF with a 17 length slide. shooting avarage is 83 % uspsa

I really like the hybrid comp set up . for flat shooting . Shumen barrels are second to none. very acurate.

As for the powder look no further than sp2 if you have a steady supply. major is made very easy and their is plenty of gas . If anything the burn will be more efficent in 9mm with a slightly compressed load and sr primers.

most major 9 loads will be @ 1.5 grains less than 38s with their being @ .075to .125" diference in OAL

The trade of is rim slot depth the 9 has a .022" rim slot and the SC has .033" @ 50% deaper. use an aftec modifide to rest on the rim and forget the worries.

[BlueOvalBruin]

Just a thought,

I have been running a 3 port hybrid with 5 additional 3/32 holes in various locations along with a 5baffle comp that has 6 side ports .

I run a 167 power factor and believe this is by far the flatest shooting gun I have ever shot . I am on my 10th open rig in 10 years.

Have had a caspian framed gun,sti,svi,glock and am now shooting a CCF with a 17 length slide. shooting avarage is 83 % uspsa

I really like the hybrid comp set up . for flat shooting . Shumen barrels are second to none. very acurate.

As for the powder look no further than sp2 if you have a steady supply. major is made very easy and their is plenty of gas . If anything the burn will be more efficent in 9mm with a slightly compressed load and sr primers.

most major 9 loads will be @ 1.5 grains less than 38s with their being @ .075to .125" diference in OAL

The trade of is rim slot depth the 9 has a .022" rim slot and the SC has .033" @ 50% deaper. use an aftec modifide to rest on the rim and forget the worries.

That sounds like an interesting setup, do you have any pics?

[Freddie the Swede]

Sounds like you have a setup that is close to what I have in mind.

Can you post some pictures?

Many thanks for all your input, it is really helpful.

Not that many OPEN shooters here in Sweden and only a very small handful of OPEN 9mm shooters.

//Freddie

[Mad Scientist]

Sounds like you have a setup that is close to what I have in mind.

Can you post some pictures?

Many thanks for all your input, it is really helpful.

Not that many OPEN shooters here in Sweden and only a very small handful of OPEN 9mm shooters.

//Freddie

Her is a link of a video I shot before adding the 5 3/32" holes and going to the 11 port comp. I would figure that the set up you want to run would be similar to what I am shooting in the video. The gun is way better now with the added comping. Running more comping requires less spring and that helps combat dot dip. http://www.youtube.com/user/gaklx250#p/a/u/0/uFmVittcgH0 I will see if I can dig up some pics of my current set up. The gun doesnt move now its redicules.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Mad Scientist

[818-DVC]

What load does it take to make major with that configuration of baffles n ports? Is it a 9 too?

I have only felt one 9 that has shot as nice as SC. Beautiful steel glock BTW.

JL

Sounds like you have a setup that is close to what I have in mind.

Can you post some pictures?

Many thanks for all your input, it is really helpful.

Not that many OPEN shooters here in Sweden and only a very small handful of OPEN 9mm shooters.

//Freddie

Her is a link of a video I shot before adding the 5 3/32" holes and going to the 11 port comp. I would figure that the set up you want to run would be similar to what I am shooting in the video. The gun is way better now with the added comping. Running more comping requires less spring and that helps combat dot dip. http://www.youtube.com/user/gaklx250#p/a/u/0/uFmVittcgH0 I will see if I can dig up some pics of my current set up. The gun doesnt move now its redicules.

Edited March 10, 2011 by 818-DVC

[Mad Scientist]

What load does it take to make major with that configuration of baffles n ports? Is it a 9 too?

I have only felt one 9 that has shot as nice as SC. Beautiful steel glock BTW.

JL

Sounds like you have a setup that is close to what I have in mind.

Can you post some pictures?

Many thanks for all your input, it is really helpful.

Not that many OPEN shooters here in Sweden and only a very small handful of OPEN 9mm shooters.

//Freddie

Her is a link of a video I shot before adding the 5 3/32" holes and going to the 11 port comp. I would figure that the set up you want to run would be similar to what I am shooting in the video. The gun is way better now with the added comping. Running more comping requires less spring and that helps combat dot dip. http://www.youtube.com/user/gaklx250#p/a/u/0/uFmVittcgH0 I will see if I can dig up some pics of my current set up. The gun doesnt move now its redicules.

I've made major with a variety of powders 3n37 ,super field, sp2, n350, the powder I am using now is marcivant 248 a comerciel powder that I scrounged up.The thing that I have learned with 9 major is to load as long as you can out to 1.175 or so that way the length is not far from a supper at a lower per shot cost. The way the curent matches are structured most being lost brass I had to do something to shoot the volume I want. 250,000 rounds later I can rember @ 3 bad cases that poped on me . I firmly believe that a properly built 9mm is as safe and reliable as a comperably built 38 .I buy cleaned ,rollsized and presure tested cases in 5 gallon buckets for @the cost of 1000 starline cases of 38suppercomp.

my current load is 6.9 grains of 248 with a 125 zero mixed casses and a fed sp primmer OAL 1.145". Supper field load is almost identicle at 7.0 grains.sp2 loads can run between 8 and 9 depending on the holes seems to lose presure quick with blow holes unlike the current powder I am running. 248 is a modern powder that yields high velocity and gass volume with lower presure and a very flat pressure curve unlike the other powders that can peek rapily .

3N37 @ 7.5 grains if memory serves me .N350 @8 grains been a while ago with that powder

As with any load data found on the internet the prudent reloader always works loads up looking for presure signs. STOPPING if any signs are noticed.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Mad Scientist

[BlueOvalBruin]

I've made major with a variety of powders 3n37 ,super field, sp2, n350, the powder I am using now is marcivant 248 a comerciel powder that I scrounged up.The thing that I have learned with 9 major is to load as long as you can out to 1.175 or so that way the length is not far from a supper at a lower per shot cost. The way the curent matches are structured most being lost brass I had to do something to shoot the volume I want. 250,000 rounds later I can rember @ 3 bad cases that poped on me . I firmly believe that a properly built 9mm is as safe and reliable as a comperably built 38 .I buy cleaned ,rollsized and presure tested cases in 5 gallon buckets for @the cost of 1000 starline cases of 38suppercomp.

my current load is 6.9 grains of 248 with a 125 zero mixed casses and a fed sp primmer OAL 1.145". Supper field load is almost identicle at 7.0 grains.sp2 loads can run between 8 and 9 depending on the holes seems to lose presure quick with blow holes unlike the current powder I am running. 248 is a modern powder that yields high velocity and gass volume with lower presure and a very flat pressure curve unlike the other powders that can peek rapily .

3N37 @ 7.5 grains if memory serves me .N350 @8 grains been a while ago with that powder

As with any load data found on the internet the prudent reloader always works loads up looking for presure signs. STOPPING if any signs are noticed.

John,

Besides using the 11 port comp, where are you placing the 5 3/32” popple holes on the barrel?

Would 3n38 be a suitable substitute for SP2 and the marcivant 248 (I’m not sure if I would even have access to that). SVI recommends 3n38 for their open guns with 2 or more hybrid ports.

Thanks.

[Mad Scientist]

I've made major with a variety of powders 3n37 ,super field, sp2, n350, the powder I am using now is marcivant 248 a comerciel powder that I scrounged up.The thing that I have learned with 9 major is to load as long as you can out to 1.175 or so that way the length is not far from a supper at a lower per shot cost. The way the curent matches are structured most being lost brass I had to do something to shoot the volume I want. 250,000 rounds later I can rember @ 3 bad cases that poped on me . I firmly believe that a properly built 9mm is as safe and reliable as a comperably built 38 .I buy cleaned ,rollsized and presure tested cases in 5 gallon buckets for @the cost of 1000 starline cases of 38suppercomp.

my current load is 6.9 grains of 248 with a 125 zero mixed casses and a fed sp primmer OAL 1.145". Supper field load is almost identicle at 7.0 grains.sp2 loads can run between 8 and 9 depending on the holes seems to lose presure quick with blow holes unlike the current powder I am running. 248 is a modern powder that yields high velocity and gass volume with lower presure and a very flat pressure curve unlike the other powders that can peek rapily .

3N37 @ 7.5 grains if memory serves me .N350 @8 grains been a while ago with that powder

As with any load data found on the internet the prudent reloader always works loads up looking for presure signs. STOPPING if any signs are noticed.

John,

Besides using the 11 port comp, where are you placing the 5 3/32” popple holes on the barrel?

Would 3n38 be a suitable substitute for SP2 and the marcivant 248 (I’m not sure if I would even have access to that). SVI recommends 3n38 for their open guns with 2 or more hybrid ports.

Thanks.

I used 3n38 a few years back between sp2 and 248 My exsperience was in the 650, the case tended to be a little full . The powder spilled on the reset of the press . Not to bad but I still didnt like the mess . 3n37 would probable be a better alternative.

The holes I have added are ahead of the hybride holes . one on the rib two thru the comp /barrel on the center line perpendicular to the axis.

the final two are on the side of the comp/barrel at the mid point perpendicular to the bore.any lift that I get is straight up and the dot returns to point of shot. If you watch real close the dot will return to the bullet hole in the target.when I shoot the fastest I can the shots are typicaly an inch apart veerticaly stringing .09splits @10yards or so

[Seth]

You will never get a 9 to run flatter or as smooth as a .38.

Not remotely true. I've shot a lot of name shooters guns at the chrono and the most impressive feeling open gun I ever shot was 9maj. It was unreal. All push in the shoulders and the dot just kind of quivered.

I chrono everything except for glocks without a pistol rest, so there's no argument to be made there.

My own 9maj gun would run winchester white box up to 180pf loads without so much as a spring change. After replacing a bad aftec, it never once choked again.

[Mad Scientist]

You will never get a 9 to run flatter or as smooth as a .38.

Not remotely true. I've shot a lot of name shooters guns at the chrono and the most impressive feeling open gun I ever shot was 9maj. It was unreal. All push in the shoulders and the dot just kind of quivered.

I chrono everything except for glocks without a pistol rest, so there's no argument to be made there.

My own 9maj gun would run winchester white box up to 180pf loads without so much as a spring change. After replacing a bad aftec, it never once choked again.

I would have to agree ,Most of the new R&D work being done these days is with the 9 . The 38 is kind of stagnating due to the high cost of brass. I think that in 5 years the suppers will be a memory.IMHO

[818-DVC]

I don't see any champions shooting 9 major...

Except possibly Dave sevegny, but I almost wonder if his open gun is .38

[TruStreet]

Nope, it's a 9 major!

[TruStreet]

I don't see any champions shooting 9 major...

Except possibly Dave sevegny, but I almost wonder if his open gun is .38

Nope, I know for a fact that he shoots a 9 Major Glock 17.

[Seth]

I don't see any champions shooting 9 major...

Except possibly Dave sevegny, but I almost wonder if his open gun is .38

Don't tell JoJo.

[Mad Scientist]

I don't see any champions shooting 9 major...

Except possibly Dave sevegny, but I almost wonder if his open gun is .38

That is a point that is grated. I would venture to say that the sponsored shooters dont have to pay for their ammo.The point is that for the average shooter 9mm makes sense.

A side note the last two years Steelmaster world champions used 9mm in both their pistols Jessie Abbate(09) Dave Sevigny(10)

Dave shoots a g17 for Steel Challenge modified with a c-more and a 5 port comp. Chambered in 9x19 Basicaly a 9 major gun with a lighter recoil spring .Shoots a 125 power factor

I cant recall Dave shooting a major match in open in USPSA competiton.Although I think he would do fine .He is a machine.

The fact still remains that the vast majority of pistol smiths in the US are hard at work developing there version of the 9 . while the 38 takes a back seat. Some resist but the demand for 9mm pistols is increasing due to simple economics. With 38sc brass at 146.00/1000 it only takes one year to eclipse the cost of the pistol itself after just 25,000 rounds.

Feeding these hungry guns has always been the cost factor.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Mad Scientist

[Singlestack]

With 38 brass over 100/1000 it only takes one year to eclipse the cost of the pistol itself.

I don't know where you get that. I buy about 2K a year and I usually have some left at the end of the year. I do mark and pick up my brass.