CZ vs. Sig

[sdm74]

Sigs are mass produced blasters designed to win government contracts by being very reliable, accurate enough for the contract specs(which aint much) and cheap. Natural pointing, low bore axis, natural location for controls, speed of shot recovery are irrelevant to government contracts but very important to action pistol type sports. The Sig is a poor design in those areas, the CZ much better.

Have you ever even shot a SIG? Most of your argument is so awful it's not even wrong. You apply characteristics to a gun that are better served applied specific to a shooter.

There are not many pistols that are Production legal and that can come close to the out of the box accuracy of the SIG X5 Allround. Name for me another gun that can do 2" at 50 yards - out of the box. The list is short. Some of the Tanfoglio and Sphinx models perhaps.

About the only other thing in your post that is even capable of having a truth value is that they are very reliable. Which they are. Oh, and they're not cheap... wrong again.

CZ's are great guns, and you will be well served with either. I own two SIG P226's, and a CZ75 pre-B is on my short list of next pistols to buy (and perhaps use in competition, depending on how I like it).

You must be right, thats why Sigs dominate production,,, umm not. The SIG X series is pretty well reguarded as a jammamatic due to a poor extractor design, Accurate yes, reliable no, and they do nothing a M&P cant do at a third the price.

I have shot the standard sigs and taught several classes with sig shooters, like I said, bad ergonomics for speed shooters. They are reliable enough and accurate enough for a decent shooter to do well in Production but that same shooter would do better with a better tool for the job. Sigs winning government contracts awarded by bean counters, for an all metal gun they are beating out the competition on price.

Thats the reason Sigs arnt very common in USPSA,

, and there's a baseless stigma that somehow a higher bore axis equates directly to slower follow up shots. Brian himself contradicted this last part in his book and multiple times on this forum,

wouldn't this contradict that statement?

taken from brians book pg 41

"The closer the line of the bore of the gun is to your hands, the less mechanical advantage the muzzle has to lift in recoil."

[DonovanM]

Perhaps. I comprehended it as you want to get as high up on the grip as possible as a general rule. My weak hand is as high up on the gun as any other platform.

I can't count how many times I've read some variant of the line "It doesn't matter how far the sights lift in recoil, just as long as they return consistently," and that's the line I was referencing.

[Gary H.]

Man, you guys comparing an X5 to a stock CZ? Isn't the X5 a custom shop gun? IMHO, You need to be comparing an X5 to a CTS or custom shadow. I know nothing about USPSA yet, but does the X5 fit into production class with their weight? I purchased a new Sig 229 and it had one of the worst triggers I have ever felt on a gun. I traded it in less than a month. I just couldn't get used to the combination of trigger and grip nor could I shoot it relatively accurately.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Gary H.

[carlosa]

Man, you guys comparing an X5 to a stock CZ? Isn't the X5 a custom shop gun? IMHO, You need to be comparing an X5 to a CTS or custom shadow. I know nothing about USPSA yet, but does the X5 fit into production class with their weight? I purchased a new Sig 229 and it had one of the worst triggers I have ever felt on a gun. I traded it in less than a month. I just couldn't get used to the combination of trigger and grip nor could I shoot it relatively accurately.

X5 is only legal in Limited and Limited 10...

it is not production legal because it's a single action gun only (that I'm aware of).

[ck1]

IMHO time and evolving shooting techniques haven't been very kind to the Sig platform, while in contrast the same things have only made CZ's more popular and endeared them to high volume competition shooters. If one executes an IPSC-style/high-thumbs-forward grip while shooting a classic 226/229-series Sig they find themselves encountering problems with both the slide-release and decocker levers beyond the other design specific things like the higher bore-axis and heavy slide/light frame arrangement, with the CZ the same exact grip is rewarded with no control interference whatsoever and a far larger surface for support-hand contact, which when combined with the far lower bore-axis and relatively low-mass slide equals a pistol that lends itself well to fast shooting; think sports cars: an old big-block Chevelle is fast for sure, but it's not beating anything mid-engined that can move around a road track. I like CZs and think it's just a better design, a top of the food chain Sig still shows some of it's flaws while a base CZ-75 with a comp hammer installed can be near as good as anything.

[Walküre]

Man, you guys comparing an X5 to a stock CZ? Isn't the X5 a custom shop gun? IMHO, You need to be comparing an X5 to a CTS or custom shadow. I know nothing about USPSA yet, but does the X5 fit into production class with their weight? I purchased a new Sig 229 and it had one of the worst triggers I have ever felt on a gun. I traded it in less than a month. I just couldn't get used to the combination of trigger and grip nor could I shoot it relatively accurately.

X5 is only legal in Limited and Limited 10...

it is not production legal because it's a single action gun only (that I'm aware of).

There is a DA/SA X5 - the X5 Allround. It is also on the production list, and should be GTG.

Gary, there is no overall upper weight restriction in Production - you just can't be more than 2oz. over the published weight (as it appears on the production gun list).

ETA - The CZ Custom CTS would not ever be eligible for Production. It is single-action-only (and it's not really a production-level offering either). Also note that the CZ Custom "Shadow Custom" models are merely worked-over Shadows with a common set of options, not completely different guns. (The only analogy that could be made is P226:X5 :: SP-01:Shadow, except that there are fewer differences in the latter pair than the former.)

Edited February 26, 2011 by Walküre

[Gary H.]

I wasn't aware of the All Around model and haven't played with that one but did give an X5 comp a thorough test. But with actual selling price of almost $1500 for the all around, one can get you a lot of custom shop work on a new CZ with enough left over to buy a lot of bullets or reloading supplies. Or if their mechanically gifted, the parts to make it a great shooter and enough left over for a backup gun! ;-)

[-JQ-]

To butcher someones else's ad.

"Sig - the one you show to your friend, CZ the one you show the tango." (something to that effect)

I am a Sig fanboy, by the way...at least old school, pre-external blah, blah...

But when it come to which gun I like to shoot and shoot better, consistently - it is the CZ. Its like a 1911 without the grip safety and a whole bunch of rounds (shadow).

[konkapot]

DonovanM's post (#25) is probably one of the wisest, most "spot on" posts ever made on this forum.

Anybody who has actually shot a Sig knows that the bore axis issue is not that big of a deal; Bruce Gray posted so somewhere (Sigforum?) some actual testing he did, comparing shot-to-shot times of a P226 and a gun with a lower bore axis...maybe it was a Glock, if memory serves.

At any rate, there was little to no difference between the Sig and the other tested gun.

I shot a P226 in L10 a few years back for about half a season and did ok with it. Shot Area 8 and DoubleTap in 2008 with it and it was not held back by the gun.

FY42385