Steven Cline Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 While I read all the posts, what I don't get is all this desire to penalize a shooter for something that is only a sematical issue. Unless one is hankering (desperately wanting to with vindictive intent?) to bump someone to Open this is a rather silly discussion. I've watched a couple of friends have to complete matches, including a Nationals and an Area Championship, after being bumped to Open under 6.2.5.1. I can assure you that my interest in this discussion, and my divergent opinion on legality, has nothing to do with any "hankering to bump someone to Open," and a lot more to do with wanting to prevent a recurrence of circumstances that would lead to a move to Open..... You won't see me shoving a mag in my front pocket while shooting Production -- simply because I don't need the (possible) distraction, and for that matter the match staff doesn't either -- they're busy enough with unavoidable calls.... Nik, my shooting brother, Please don't think I thought you were hankering to bump someone to open... 'cus I don't. I think should an RO bump someone to Open using 5.2.4 in conjunction with 6.2.5.1 because they pulled an 11 rounder out of their front pants pocket and loaded the gun with it at the make ready command before the start signal stretches the limits of reason and I opined that it strikes me more of looking to bump someone than to reasonably and fairly enforce the rules. Since we both have the same goal of preventing someone from being bumped to open unnecessarily, I suggest we work together to compose a letter to John Amidon which clearly identifies the rule and situation we would like clarified. I'll send you a PM. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 While I read all the posts, what I don't get is all this desire to penalize a shooter for something that is only a sematical issue. Unless one is hankering (desperately wanting to with vindictive intent?) to bump someone to Open this is a rather silly discussion. I've watched a couple of friends have to complete matches, including a Nationals and an Area Championship, after being bumped to Open under 6.2.5.1. I can assure you that my interest in this discussion, and my divergent opinion on legality, has nothing to do with any "hankering to bump someone to Open," and a lot more to do with wanting to prevent a recurrence of circumstances that would lead to a move to Open..... You won't see me shoving a mag in my front pocket while shooting Production -- simply because I don't need the (possible) distraction, and for that matter the match staff doesn't either -- they're busy enough with unavoidable calls.... Nik, my shooting brother, Please don't think I thought you were hankering to bump someone to open... 'cus I don't. I think should an RO bump someone to Open using 5.2.4 in conjunction with 6.2.5.1 because they pulled an 11 rounder out of their front pants pocket and loaded the gun with it at the make ready command before the start signal stretches the limits of reason and I opined that it strikes me more of looking to bump someone than to reasonably and fairly enforce the rules. Since we both have the same goal of preventing someone from being bumped to open unnecessarily, I suggest we work together to compose a letter to John Amidon which clearly identifies the rule and situation we would like clarified. I'll send you a PM. Deal? Read this month's Front Sight -- John was asked the question regarding SS, and stated that under Appendices Dx-12, E-3, and rule 6.2.5.1 it would be a mandatory move to Open..... When John can't give the same answer twice, I'm thinking there's a potential problem..... And don't sweat it Steve -- I was pretty confident you weren't pointing at me..... Like you, I'd rather hash it out here, before potentially ruining someone's day on the range, or having them stress, while I research and come up with an answer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Cline Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 While I read all the posts, what I don't get is all this desire to penalize a shooter for something that is only a sematical issue. Unless one is hankering (desperately wanting to with vindictive intent?) to bump someone to Open this is a rather silly discussion. I've watched a couple of friends have to complete matches, including a Nationals and an Area Championship, after being bumped to Open under 6.2.5.1. I can assure you that my interest in this discussion, and my divergent opinion on legality, has nothing to do with any "hankering to bump someone to Open," and a lot more to do with wanting to prevent a recurrence of circumstances that would lead to a move to Open..... You won't see me shoving a mag in my front pocket while shooting Production -- simply because I don't need the (possible) distraction, and for that matter the match staff doesn't either -- they're busy enough with unavoidable calls.... Nik, my shooting brother, Please don't think I thought you were hankering to bump someone to open... 'cus I don't. I think should an RO bump someone to Open using 5.2.4 in conjunction with 6.2.5.1 because they pulled an 11 rounder out of their front pants pocket and loaded the gun with it at the make ready command before the start signal stretches the limits of reason and I opined that it strikes me more of looking to bump someone than to reasonably and fairly enforce the rules. Since we both have the same goal of preventing someone from being bumped to open unnecessarily, I suggest we work together to compose a letter to John Amidon which clearly identifies the rule and situation we would like clarified. I'll send you a PM. Deal? Read this month's Front Sight -- John was asked the question regarding SS, and stated that under Appendices Dx-12, E-3, and rule 6.2.5.1 it would be a mandatory move to Open..... When John can't give the same answer twice, I'm thinking there's a potential problem..... And don't sweat it Steve -- I was pretty confident you weren't pointing at me..... Like you, I'd rather hash it out here, before potentially ruining someone's day on the range, or having them stress, while I research and come up with an answer.... Yeah, I read the question and I don't think it applies to the situation we are discussing. The real problem was that the question was vague and the answer general and too abreviated. Kinda like how if you word your Arbitration poorly you can loose the Arbitration because you worded it poorly while actual being correct (just a poor word smith). I see them as two different situations. If you carry a mag in your front pocket, after the start signal, you are in violation of 6.2.5.1 and you go to open. If you load from the front pocket, prior to the start signal, and don't have a mag in the front pocket after the start signal, 5.2.4 prevails as it is specific to the situation. I don't see John's answers as inconsistent, just different because the questions are actually different. I would agree that he was maybe a bit lazy in this answer and didn't take the time to fully explain the intricacy of the issue in it's entirety. It is entirely possible he submitted his Inside NROI well before the email was sent to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I would agree that he was maybe a bit lazy in this answer... That's a derogatory accusation. And people ask why he doesn't post here more than once in a blue moon. Play nice, or play somewhere else. No antagonistic tones will be tolerated.Please post respectfully or don't post at all. If anyone has anything substantital to add, please PM a Moderator. CLOSED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts