YamaLink Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Is it the external extractor? The price vs the competition? It brings a lot to the table in the $1500 area with undercut trigger guard, frontstrap checkering, the Performance Center fitting, magwell, adjustable rear, etc. Or does everyone think of them as a revolver (and M&P) kinda company and not a game gun for the SSTK and CDP crowd? The main review PC1911 owners refer to is: http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/the-peak-of-performance Edited January 13, 2011 by YamaLink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I think it's somewhat the extractor, but more that it's in a price point that doesn't make much sense for/to a lot of us. If I'm willing to buy a $1500 stock gun, I might as well drop a couple hundred more and get something like a Baer Premier II. If I only have $1500 to spend, I'm going to get something less expensive so I have money for the work or parts it's going to need (they all need a trigger job from the factory). Another thing is that if you're going to shoot some of the bigger matches, there's often STI contingency money if you use one of their frames/guns. All of those, plus S&W selling 1911s is a new idea to a lot of folks. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaLink Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Good stuff. Doing some reading and even though msrp is an unrealistic 2200+, many are buying them in the 1400 to 1600 range, but then your opinion is probably like many others. I'm thinking a NIB PC 1911 would "make sense" if it was 1200 to 1350. A new PII can be had for around $1550 shipped. Speaking of a Premier II, it does not come with a magwell and the finish is weaker than S&W, but the magwell is such a personalized item and the bluing probably doesn't matter to a gamer (or they get it refinished later). Good reviews and opinions but not as mainstream, hence the big price reductions. I think it's somewhat the extractor, but more that it's in a price point that doesn't make much sense for/to a lot of us. If I'm willing to buy a $1500 stock gun, I might as well drop a couple hundred more and get something like a Baer Premier II. If I only have $1500 to spend, I'm going to get something less expensive so I have money for the work or parts it's going to need (they all need a trigger job from the factory). Another thing is that if you're going to shoot some of the bigger matches, there's often STI contingency money if you use one of their frames/guns. All of those, plus S&W selling 1911s is a new idea to a lot of folks. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I have one of the DK 38 Supers. It's a nice gun. I replaced the trigger and did a trigger job on it. I like the feel of it as it seems to be well balanced and it fits well in my hands. Accuracy is very good and the fit and finish of all the parts looks good. The only complaint that I have with it that the thumb safety is kind of slim. That's easy enough to fix though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaLink Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Which were the runner-ups in your search before buying the DK? I have one of the DK 38 Supers. It's a nice gun. I replaced the trigger and did a trigger job on it. I like the feel of it as it seems to be well balanced and it fits well in my hands. Accuracy is very good and the fit and finish of all the parts looks good. The only complaint that I have with it that the thumb safety is kind of slim. That's easy enough to fix though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 YamaLink, You would be doing yourself a favor by staying clear of the Performance Center guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaLink Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Details, please. YamaLink, You would be doing yourself a favor by staying clear of the Performance Center guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Which were the runner-ups in your search before buying the DK? All of my other 1911's are custom. I didn't want another 45 so when S&W came out with the Super I wanted one. If the 9mm had adjustable sights and a ramped barrel I would have one of those also. I have 2 of the 627's in Super and have been satisfied with them. The PC guns are fine IMO. I didn't have to replace all the parts in the 1911 to get a good trigger pull. You can't say that for some of the other production 19911's out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Details, please. YamaLink, You would be doing yourself a favor by staying clear of the Performance Center guns. It's against forum rules for me to say what I have to say. So, I'll send you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremist Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I had 3 PC1911s, I now only have one. Mine is a tack driver and totally reliable so far. About 500-700 rounds through it. I did pay well under retail for them, ranging from 1325-1425 for each, 2 had less than a box shot through them, one had probably 200 rounds through it. Here's a pic of mine: Pros: - Great trigger - Great Finish (Melonite over stainless steel) - Great sights (Wilson Combat adjustable) - 30 LPI front/rear strap, cool slide serrations front and rear - Cool Koenig speed hammer - Magwell Cons: - Stupid Swartz Firing Pin Safety (already had this fail once on my SW PD1911 Tactical Rail, but not on my PC1911 - yet) - Lots of up/down play in the ambi-safety with hammer forward (probably a defect I can get S&W to fix, just haven't bothered) - Magwell is not blended - Front sight is hydraulic pressed in (cannot remove with sight pusher). Gave up trying to replace it with Dawson Fibre Now, for $1300-1500 I think it is a GREAT 1911. However, once you cross the $1500 mark, I think it is Les Baer PII time. And the Dan Wesson pre-2010 Valor models were also much better than the PC1911 (I have 2), but now the 2010 Valors in Black are crazy priced compared to Les Baer. IMHO. And I've sworn of buying any more 1911s that have any firing pin safeties Regards, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 - Front sight is hydraulic pressed in (cannot remove with sight pusher). Gave up trying to replace it with Dawson Fibre That's the way the front sight on my M&P Pro was. Using a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel, you can carefully slice through the sight so that the cut goes from left to right (perpendicular to the blade) until you can see you're close to all the way through. It should then pop right out with almost no effort. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitestir Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I had a Melonite PC 1911. It was very accurate and the fit was excellent. I had problems with the trigger on mine. When I first got it the trigger pull was at about 8+ lbs and the grip safety was binding the trigger. It took 2 trips back to Smith (first one was before I actually took ownership) and I still wasn't happy with it. The trigger was around 4 lbs after the second trip back and the grip safety still would bind a bit even with it fully pressed in. I ended up selling it because I was just not happy with it. I could have had a trigger job done on it and the safety fit better, but I probably never would have gotten over it. That's just me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaLink Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Found two melonites in town. The trigger straight out of the box felt very very good. Magwell blended perfectly. Felt great in hand. Of course I did not shoot it. There was a NIB stainless on auction that did not get one bid at $1250. The melonites are considerably higher, up in LB PII territory. I'd get a 2010 Valor stainless for $1300-ish but the rear sight is not target adjustable, and the black price is insanely high. Thanks for the Valor vs PC1911 tidbit. Puts things in perspective. Is the sight different than the M&P9L? I could press that out with my little arbor press. I think at this price range I'm going to pass considering the options. Edited January 13, 2011 by YamaLink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 When I first got it the trigger pull was at about 8+ lbs and the grip safety was binding the trigger. It took 2 trips back to Smith (first one was before I actually took ownership) and I still wasn't happy with it. The trigger was around 4 lbs after the second trip back and the grip safety still would bind a bit even with it fully pressed in. I ended up selling it because I was just not happy with it. I could have had a trigger job done on it and the safety fit better, but I probably never would have gotten over it. That's just me.... That assessment is on par with my opinion of Performance Center guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59Bassman Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I do not own, nor have I shot a S&W PC 1911. However, my issue with them is the external extractor. It may be a superior design to a standard 1911 extractor. However, every gun shop in the USA, and at least 3 tables at every gun show in the USA, have a spare mil-spec 1911 extractor if you ever need one. How many of those same shops have a spare S&W extractor? At least in a single-stack gun, I prefer as many of the parts to be somewhat replaceable (or made by a number of companies) as possible. But I'm odd that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I personally think that an external extractor is a sign of a company that can't make a good 1911. I wish I could understand why manufacturers keep trying it. The market doesn't want an external extractor in a 1911. It's been tried and failed so many times that it's almost irrational to see them keep coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anilson Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Didn't S&W sell the sigma? Revolvers yes, autoloaders buyer beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Edit: negative comments removed. Moderators: I'm trying to be a good boy, but this thread is really hitting a nerve with me. I can't seem to help myself. Edited January 14, 2011 by CSEMARTIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I can't seem to help myself. Sure you can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I have only heard of one problem with the external extractor and that was fixed by replacing a spring. Sounds kind of like an Aftec to me. I did fix that crazy firing pin safety. I had a few problems not getting a good enough grip to deactivate it. I took a punch and peened the sides of the hole in the slide with the plunger in there so that it stays depressed. No problems since then. I'm guessing that wouldn't work for IDPA shooters though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaLink Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Well the seller of the stainless version says the trigger pull is sweet out of the box (only dry fired with snap caps) and the grip safety doesn't stock. His price is $1175 plus $40 ship. For a pure game gun this is a decent deal complete with magwell and two mags. I'll have to think about it vs a STI Trojan at $999 delivered and no magwell and way beter resale in terms of many more want an STI vs a PC1911. Now, for $1300-1500 I think it is a GREAT 1911. However, once you cross the $1500 mark, I think it is Les Baer PII time. And the Dan Wesson pre-2010 Valor models were also much better than the PC1911 (I have 2), but now the 2010 Valors in Black are crazy priced compared to Les Baer. IMHO. Regards, James Edited January 15, 2011 by YamaLink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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