fred5876r Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I was cleaning the primer pockets on a bunch of .45 range brass while watching the Orange Bowl tonight, and I noticed the hole between the primer pocket and the case is noticeably larger on Speer and Federal cases than it is on the Winchesters. Does this variation have any practical effect? i.e. does the primer flame reach the powder with more intensity on the Speer and Federal cases? Would this have any effect on chamber pressures or the velocity of the round? I also have noticed that the primer pockets on fired Winchester .45 brass always look much dirtier than Federal, Speer and CCI Blazer brass cases, either before and especially after cleaning. Is this a function of the chemical composition of the Winchester primers, and is it anything to worry about? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Why are you cleaning primer pockets, just out of curiosity? Waste of time, IM ever so HO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I don't think it's anything to worry about. If you want to prove it to yourself, load 50 of each. If all go bang, it's not an issue. I don't know your shooting background, but if it's something related to precision rifle, not all of those rules apply here. Chamfering mouthes of cases, trimming overall length, and annealing cases are a few of the wisdoms not required for high volume pistol shooting. If they are reasonably accurate (say, 3" at 25 yards) and go bang every time, it's a good load. Reliability is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred5876r Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Why are you cleaning primer pockets, just out of curiosity? Let's just say I am particular (if not anal) about my reloads. It makes me feel good about the quality, as I see the debris fall away when I remove the cleaning tool from the primer pocket. However, I am open to omitting that step if it is truly a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Why are you cleaning primer pockets, just out of curiosity? Let's just say I am particular (if not anal) about my reloads. It makes me feel good about the quality, as I see the debris fall away when I remove the cleaning tool from the primer pocket. However, I am open to omitting that step if it is truly a waste of time. Total waste of time for what we do. I just worked up some .40 loads for my SS gun (comparing two bullets) and was doing some accuracy work after confirming velocity on the chrono. At 25yds, using the top of a plastic barrel with a little scrap of carpet on it, I was shooting repeated 5-shot groups that were hovering right around 1.25". With a better rest, and maybe a smaller target, I think I could shrink those, but I believe out of a Ransom Rest, they'd easily be 1" groups or better. That's using once or twice-fired brass with nothing done to it other than tumbling them clean...primers don't come out until I load them. Earlier this year I was doing something similar with one of my Open guns, and I shot two or three 10-shot groups at 25yds using my shooting bag to support my forearms. I was using a standard paster as an aiming point, and kept all ten shots on the paster...that's probably sub-1", but I didn't even bother to measure them. The best group almost stayed entirely inside the paster...that's probably way less than 1". Again, those were cases that had been tumbled clean, but nothing done to the primer pockets. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) "Let's just say I am particular (if not anal) about my reloads. It makes me feel good about the quality, as I see the debris fall away when I remove the cleaning tool from the primer pocket. However, I am open to omitting that step if it is truly a waste of time." Let's just say I started out just like you, and that I no longer am like that (at least, not too much )... And even if did make a difference of, say, 1/2" to 1" in group size, if it still lands inside a 6x11 inch rectangle at 25 yards, you'll be OK. Oh, and, since you'll probably shoot a couple matches a month, perhaps 400 rounds, excluding practice, do you really have the time to clean the primer pockets of 5000 cases a year? Life is too short... Edited January 4, 2011 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I bought a gun from a guy who told me, "the gunsmith [XXX] recommends an overall length of 1.220 ", and I can certify that EVERY round fired through this gun was that length because I miked every one of them!" He meant it as a selling point. Instead of being impressed by his studious nature, I was amazed that he thought that was necessary for USPSA competition. I remember thinking, "You're a nice guy, but you ain't a USPSA shooter". We're not splitting hairs. There's sports that require that, but not this one. This sport requires a level of predictable accuracy, but not necessarily one-hole groups at 50 yards. Find a load that hits the A-zone every time you do your part and shoot 'em like you stole 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 and I can certify that EVERY round fired through this gun was that length because I miked every one of them!" Yeah, all 25 of 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred5876r Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks for the responses. With respect to cleaning the primer pockets, I guess my intention was to control quality with reliable ignition in mind (i.e. I want to avoid any squibbs due to an obstruction in the primer pocket), I never actually considered any possible effect on accuracy. I realize I am not a bullseye shooter, and, in any event, not a good enough shot that the gun and ammo are going to make much difference to the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 size and decap the brass after tumbling. take a quick peak in the case mouth when you look over the brass to verify the primer pocket is clear of debris, then throw it in a casefeeder or bucket or whatever you do right before you load'em up. for the rifle game, yes clean the primer pockets, especially if your looking for any kind of precision or long range shooting. for 25yd and closer pistol shooting, definitely not worth your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 and I can certify that EVERY round fired through this gun was that length because I miked every one of them!" Yeah, all 25 of 'em. In fact, it was 1,500 (!). And he was a really nice guy, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cd662 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Not to thread hijack, but I'm glad I saw this. I've sort of been wondering if cleaning primer pockets does anything besides tire my fingers out. As the OP mentioned, some of my cases (only loaded 38 Special for now) have moderate amount of deposit in the pockets and others are pretty clean. I was briefly considering a case trimmer to have uniform lengths on cases, since I don't segregate cases by length of manufacturer (was under the impression that would be a bit too fastidious for action pistol) and I run into going under my OAL if I have a shorter case. I had originally segregated some brass and gave up doing so because it was taking forever, but those don't seem to vary beyond +/- 0.2 inches with the lock nut all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 With respect to cleaning the primer pockets, I guess my intention was to control quality with reliable ignition in mind (i.e. I want to avoid any squibbs due to an obstruction in the primer pocket) When you decap the casing, I'm pretty sure that round steel rod pushed all the way through the flash hole will clear out any obstructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 With respect to cleaning the primer pockets, I guess my intention was to control quality with reliable ignition in mind (i.e. I want to avoid any squibbs due to an obstruction in the primer pocket) When you decap the casing, I'm pretty sure that round steel rod pushed all the way through the flash hole will clear out any obstructions. And if it doesn't, I hope you have a spare decapping pin, cause that one is either broke or bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carter300 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I was cleaning the primer pockets on a bunch of .45 range brass while watching the Orange Bowl tonight, I also have noticed that the primer pockets on fired Winchester .45 brass always look much dirtier than Federal, Speer and CCI Blazer brass cases, either before and especially after cleaning. Is this a function of the chemical composition of the Winchester primers, and is it anything to worry about? Thanks. I clean every single one. I started off with precision rifle, so that got me cleaning primer pockets. Yes it maybe a waste of time as others have stated, but Quality Control can never be too bad. And YES WIn cases are always dirtier then anyothers, they always need cleaned, where others are perfect like new, after being put into tumbler after being resized and deprimed. Inspector 12 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik S. Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Don't let them flame you for cleaning your cases. Although some consider it a waste of time and I myself agree that it is not necessary, reload how YOU want and any extra steps are your business and cannot hurt. I don't clean mine and don't do the type of shooting where I would notice an accuracy difference, but if you're shooting bullseye or off a rest, it just might give you the additional edge you need to win! Either way, my .02 for USPSA or any of the defensive pistol sports is don't worry about cleaning and just use the decapper to clear any big obstructions and if you have Lee dies you'll never even break/bend a pin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 On BrianEnos.com we don't flame. We offer constructive suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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