1911vm Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Why is metallic category is dominated by single stacks. Are the double stacks (S-V) just not accurate enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I think it has more to do with availability of magwells, existing guns, and necessity. There is no need for a widebody and a lot of the gun have been built for awhile, or are replacing guns that have been around for a while. A well built 2011 is just as accurate as a well built 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I think the best argument for single stacks is that no match that NRA AP shoots has a string of more than 6 shots, so a single stack frame does the job, I have a custom Double Stack, STI running 10rounds magazines (for when I go to Australia). I think the initial set up costs are just a lot cheaper. More importantly I can find 8 single stack guns off the shelf that will work for Metallic out of the box from 4 different makers, and maybe 3 Doubles all STI / SVI based. The single stack guns are easily $500 cheaper and have the same accuracy potential and are easier and cheaper to get extra magazines for. To go the build your own gun route, there are a bundle of good single stack frames available from a multitude of makers that are all very well made. Pick your frame, slide, barrel and internals. Get a good set of grips and sights and get a competent gunsmith to assemble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 (edited) I shot an STI in Metallic for a while. Like Chuck said it's more of a prone pad issue. I bought up the last of the old Smokin Hole mag wells that I could find and used that. They are a big honkin mag well similar in size to the Double Alpha. I then found a base pad for a 126mm mag that would fit in there. It took some whittling to get it to lock in place. Some shooters make a new basepad from delrin that when seated in the gun sticks out around the sides of the frame. Others like the feel of the SS over the DS. If you have small hands the SS just fits better. Since we only fire 6 rounds in a string the DS is no advantage. Edited December 31, 2010 by Action Pistolero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) This is what our gunsmith has just finished for a freind of mine. It started out life as a Kimber Team Match 38Super, very accurate out of the box, but then he oopsed a bulge into the barrel. Luckily he had a 6" spare. So essentially an open gun without the ports. He has the original laminated grips and a small prone pad from Protocal to go on. He has yet to fire the beast, but this is a good reasonable priced way to go if you have an old frame and slide laying about. Just add a good barrel and some old bits of Stainless laying around a workshop. All internals std Kimber, trigger breaks at 3lb clean. Edited January 3, 2011 by gm iprod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911vm Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 okay so if I have 1500 dollars , what would my best bet be? And I am all set with SS mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) okay so if I have 1500 dollars , what would my best bet be? And I am all set with SS mags STI Target master and a prone pad. Not sure on the latest price on them but that will be close. I believe it comes with an Aristocrat rear sight. GM, How is the slab of steel held onto the end of the barrel? I see the screw that holds part of it to the guide rod. Is that all? Forgot to ask, is that a Caspian ambi safety? The right side doesn't have the tab that goes under the grip panel. Edited January 4, 2011 by Action Pistolero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 It really comes down to grip and cost. A lot of people dont like the size of the double stack, and as said above, the sing le stack is cheaper and mags are cheaper. The bottom line is you will get the same accuracy with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantJ Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) OK, cat among the pigeons time. If you are looking for an out of the box competition pistol that is a tack driver for less that your $1500, then take a look at this. The Tanfoglio Limited for metallic is value for money and you don’t have to do anything to it. Helen and I use them in Open to great success, me 12th over all in 2001 at the Bianchi and Helen the ladies World Championship in 2008….. I’m just saying. Worth a serious look! GrantJ PS. 1911’s will never catch on…..Ha! WitnessLimited.pdf Edited January 4, 2011 by GrantJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) Kevin, Slab is threaded to barrel as per open gun, screw hole goes right through to the barrel. Not the way I do it, I just use 620 locktite and no screw, customer wanted it this way. The guide rod extends into the slab, as the slab moves rearward the guide rod stays still. The only thing that is not Kimber factory is the barrel (Kart), bushing (Ed Brown Hardcore) and slab (Rodon Arms), we even reused the Kimber front sight. The original grips will go on when he is ready to shoot it. The smith put those on to test fire. Needs a hot load right now to get it going, it may be on the tight side, but seeing as they loosen up with age, (like most things) that is fine. 1911VM, other than the $1500 and mags what do you have? 38Super or 9mm Mags? Do you have a SS frame laying about or is this from scratch. What is a Kimber 9mm or 38Super Target 2 these days up there? That may be the way to go until you can get the full custom gun sorted or build on the custom 2, simialr to what we did. List of parts, that I know I can get easily and work. Option 1 if you are building on a known good handgun, eg Kimber Target2. You use everything except the list below. Kart Barrel $189, sometimes with bushing. Ed Brown Bushing $22 Ed Brown Ambi Safety (because the Target 2 does not have one) $64.99 Lump of Stainless to make into front sight mount $2 Gunsmith took about 10 hours. $400 Fit barrel and bush to frame and slide ensuring tight lockup. Construct and fit slab. Refill front sight slot in slide. Refinish all components to match. Option 2, if you are going to go for a full build up. Frame - Caspian $200, Les Baer $500 Slide - Caspian $200, STI $225 Barrel - Kart $189 Bushing - Ed Brown $22 Fire control Kit, hammer, sear, disconnector - Cylinder & Slide $175. Trigger - $20 - $50, lets settle on Ed Brown 3 Hole $22 Grip safety - Ed Brown Memory Groove $34 Ambi Safety - $65 Guide Rod & Plug - I like Cominolli Std Diameter Tungsten $87 - Std Plug $20 Pin Kit - $13 Cylinder & Slide Main Spring Housing - $30 Spring Kit - Wolff - $18 Rear Sight - STI $74 - Aristocrat $190 Extractor - Ed Brown Hardcore $30 Ejector - $24 Slide Stop - $30 Mag Catch - Ed Brown $23 Front Sight - Novak $25 OR custom Mover Front sight $500+? Firing Pin - $6 Hammer Strut - $7 Plunger Tube - $16 Firing Pin Stop - $12 Gunsmithing and custom barrel weight $500? All done about $1300 plus gunsmith. All availble in one form or another on Brownells and or Midway and many others I just did not look at. Anything I have missed? Edited January 4, 2011 by gm iprod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Kevin, Slab is threaded to barrel as per open gun, screw hole goes right through to the barrel. Not the way I do it, I just use 620 locktite and no screw, customer wanted it this way. The guide rod extends into the slab, as the slab moves rearward the guide rod stays still. The only thing that is not Kimber factory is the barrel (Kart), bushing (Ed Brown Hardcore) and slab (Rodon Arms), we even reused the Kimber front sight. The original grips will go on when he is ready to shoot it. The smith put those on to test fire. Needs a hot load right now to get it going, it may be on the tight side, but seeing as they loosen up with age, (like most things) that is fine. 1911VM, other than the $1500 and mags what do you have? 38Super or 9mm Mags? Do you have a SS frame laying about or is this from scratch. What is a Kimber 9mm or 38Super Target 2 these days up there? That may be the way to go until you can get the full custom gun sorted or build on the custom 2, simialr to what we did. List of parts, that I know I can get easily and work. Option 1 if you are building on a known good handgun, eg Kimber Target2. You use everything except the list below. Kart Barrel $189, sometimes with bushing. Ed Brown Bushing $22 Ed Brown Ambi Safety (because the Target 2 does not have one) $64.99 Lump of Stainless to make into front sight mount $2 Gunsmith took about 10 hours. $400 Fit barrel and bush to frame and slide ensuring tight lockup. Construct and fit slab. Refill front sight slot in slide. Refinish all components to match. Option 2, if you are going to go for a full build up. Frame - Caspian $200, Les Baer $500 Slide - Caspian $200, STI $225 Barrel - Kart $189 Bushing - Ed Brown $22 Fire control Kit, hammer, sear, disconnector - Cylinder & Slide $175. Trigger - $20 - $50, lets settle on Ed Brown 3 Hole $22 Grip safety - Ed Brown Memory Groove $34 Ambi Safety - $65 Guide Rod & Plug - I like Cominolli Std Diameter Tungsten $87 - Std Plug $20 Pin Kit - $13 Cylinder & Slide Main Spring Housing - $30 Spring Kit - Wolff - $18 Rear Sight - STI $74 - Aristocrat $190 Extractor - Ed Brown Hardcore $30 Ejector - $24 Slide Stop - $30 Mag Catch - Ed Brown $23 Front Sight - Novak $25 OR custom Mover Front sight $500+? Firing Pin - $6 Hammer Strut - $7 Plunger Tube - $16 Firing Pin Stop - $12 Gunsmithing and custom barrel weight $500? All done about $1300 plus gunsmith. All availble in one form or another on Brownells and or Midway and many others I just did not look at. Anything I have missed? GM, only a couple of small items missing.......Grips, grip screws & bushings, prone pad. Good list for a new build!! Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Richard, Did you just put a plug in the front sight cut, or was it welded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Alan, Good points, Custom Grips $200 Std Grips $50 Screws and Bushings $30 Prone Pad $60 - Warren, chip in if I am wrong. DW. Didn't ask, assume just the right size and slid in there. Certainly not welded, may have locktite in there though. One day you may want to go back to the original look. Which is easy, 6" barrel out, 5" in, job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Just to add some fuel to the idea. Look what Brownells are up to. Just get them to add in a 6" barrel instead of the 5" they are supplying and you are good to go. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=41017/sku=965000091/Product/1911_AUTO_PRE_FIT_SLIDE_FRAME_BARREL_KIT?mc_ID=3047 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spangler Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I also shoot a Witness Limited in AP metallic and love it (for the money). Back to DS VS SS for a second. One caution...If you use the DS for a length of time and also shoot a 1911 SS; it is very easy to forget to reload shooting AP after the first six when your so used to only changing mags at stages, not strings. You'll just have to trust me on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Just to add some fuel to the idea. Look what Brownells are up to. Just get them to add in a 6" barrel instead of the 5" they are supplying and you are good to go. http://www.brownells..._KIT?mc_ID=3047 The problem is that the slide is only offered in 45. I was intrigued by that and then saw the caliber. Seems Wilson doesn't want to mess with the 9mm family much. Mark, That's what happens when your cheeks are resting on your shoulders. Fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I was trying to post this set up somehow the other one get in there. All you need is a barrel. When I logged into it when they first sent me the email it was in 9mm / 38Super, now showing only 45. Stock #:100-004-485 Mfr:WILSON COMBAT Mfr Part #:440CFS Retail Price:$649.99Status:In Stock 0.0(No reviews) Be the first to Write a Review Caliber: 38/357 Caliber (.357-.359),9 mm (.355-.356) Finish: Carbon Steel Style: Kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 If one willing to consider a non-1911 for Metallic, I'd consider the CZ-75 Tactical Sport over the Tanfoglio Limited as it has a longer sight radius, which ought to help at the 50 yard line. The only worry I might have is that the CZ-75TS's trigger might be too light and might have to be increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The one I have at my shop is about 2 1/2lb, we are allowed 2lb, so as it wears in it should be fine. The only thing I have against the CZ, is that you really can't tighten the lockup from the factory very easily. Slide and Frame are harder than all hell. But I have yet to have one shoot really crappy from the box with good quality ammo. So it may not need tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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