Newguy Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I'm shooting an STI d/s in .40 using 168-170 pf ammo. I've got small hands and the grip and trigger are about as small/short as I can get. When I shoot fast, my shots consistently go to the right (I'm a lefty) -- sometimes so far right they're off the paper. This doesn't happen when I'm shooting slow in timed fire. My weak hand thumb is not touching the frame so I'm not steering the gun (if it was, It would be going left anyway). I'm also cross dominant (left hand/right eye). I'm guessing the problem is with my stance (maybe I'm oscillating with the recoil) or with improper grip pressure. Any advice would be appreciated. BTW, just reverse the direction for you righties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Probably several things are happening at the same time. My guess would be, yu are slappping the trigger, you are shifting your grip as the gun is coming down out of recoil, and you have not determined your NPA prior to making yur draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Yanking the trigger is what does the low-right pattern for this lefty.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 All of the above including uneven/inconsistent grip pressure along with a bunch of other stuff that could be cleared up with The Book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Not enough finger on the trigger might be a problem too. Instead of just pulling back you also end up pushing out with your trigger finger. I would shoot a rapid string then STOP! Without changing your grip yet, look at your hand positions and your trigger finger in relation to the gun compared to your original grip. I have short hands too. I can't apply all the rules at once - trigger finger 90 degress to the trigger, backstrap of the gun lined up with the forearm, etc ... I've had to cut and paste. Keep at it, you'll find a way. I also wouldn't rule out needing to increase your weak hand grip pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 You need to be seeing, and calling the shots. The gun shoots right, because you are pointing it there. Even at maximum warp, you should be seeing where the "sights" are pointed when it fires. When you see what the gun is doing, you will correct it as it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I'm a southpaw too. Check your grip tension with your support hand and how much you are wrapped into the grip with the support hand. You may have to move your right hand back so your palms are closer together. Sorry, I mean the heal of your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 For a lefty: going right is either yanking the trigger and/or the "sympathy squeeze" of the strong hand when pulling the trigger. Grip the gun and look down the sights then squeeze your grip hand and watch the sights jump. With small hands it's instinctive to try to grip harder to hod the gun. You have to hold a steady pressure with the strong hand as you pull the trigger or the gun will move (a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball1911 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I noticed not too long ago (2002) that I had the same issue, only reversed for this righty. My issue was resolved by making sure that I was NOT placing my weak hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard. That was something that I did primarily out of subconscious than anything, as I had never intentionally put my index finger there, it just ended up there after about three or so rounds. Never did it in practice, as I paid close attention to grip, etc. One day a friend watched me shoot a stage at a local monthly and asked why I put my finger there. "I don't" "You did." "I did?" "You did." "I won't." problem solved almost instantly. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 You may want to try allowing a little more travel on your trigger. If you have it set with little overtravel, the trigger hitting the overtravel stop can cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Newguy as Wide45 said you have to see the shots to call them. It takes time but one day you will see everything and wonder why you didn't before. Another reason besides those given is the torqueing (sp?) of the barrel as the bullet travels down it. For a righty it would tourque into the wrist, where the wrist is a little stronger or stable. A lefty is the opposite, it tourques away from the wrist where the wrist is a little weaker. Get a 10 pound weight and start doing wrist curls with it each way (palm up then palm down) on both wrists. It should help your grip and at least lessen the tourquing or yaw induced. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I'm shooting an STI d/s in .40 using 168-170 pf ammo. I've got small hands and the grip and trigger are about as small/short as I can get.When I shoot fast, my shots consistently go to the right (I'm a lefty) -- sometimes so far right they're off the paper. This doesn't happen when I'm shooting slow in timed fire. It's a small world. I was just at the range working on technique to figure out why I am getting some rapid fire "flyers" to the left (I am right handed). In my case, I had a red dot so I watched close and found it was the trigger pull causing it. I got a huge improvement when I changed my grip such that the index finger of my weak hand was on the front of the trigger guard (this is a Beretta 92). Farther forward, the finger stabilizes the gun better against left/right rotation as compared to the standard grip where it wraps under the trigger guard. That provides good upward support, but not lateral stability. Anyway, I'd be willing to bet your rapid fire wander is a result of some kind of trigger pull disorder such as squeezing the strong hand with the trigger pull or torquing the gun by not pulling straight back on the trigger. I kind of assume my trigger pull won't be perfect when I am shooting fast in a match so I looked for a way to hold the gun straight even if I do yank the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WetWork999 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 BountyHunter, can you have someone take a pic of your grip so I can see what you are elaborating to? I think I might like to try your grip. Thanks in advance. ~Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newguy Posted May 2, 2004 Author Share Posted May 2, 2004 A belated thanks for all the advice. I'm sure it's a combination of things, although I've figured out that improper trigger squeeze (jerking, yanking, etc.) is the main culprit. When I pay attention to the trigger, especially the reset, all goes well and my group size shrinks. The main thing that's helped is remembering the word "gentle." The gun has a 2 1/4 lb trigger but in rapid fire I'm pulling on it like it's a da with a heavy trigger. When I'm gentle with the trigger, all goes better. Bountyhunter, I'm also playing with the finger in front of the triggerguard (yeah, I know it's not what the experts teach and I know the reasons why I shouldn't do it). I definitely feel like I have better control of the gun, especially during the recoil arc which goes to the right (on my weak hand side) in my gun. Still not sure I'll stick with it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chutist Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I was working on some 25 yard drills and caught myself not pulling the trigger straight back, caming the gun left ( for a right hander like me). I got it squared away as soon as I became aware. When I moved up to 7 yards for some Bill drills, there it was again! I didn't feel it so much but the evidence was on the target. The groups where good vertically but had shifted left about 3 inches! I'd bet you're not pulling the trigger straight back when you're running wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I'm also playing with the finger in front of the triggerguard (yeah, I know it's not what the experts teach and I know the reasons why I shouldn't do it). I definitely feel like I have better control of the gun, especially during the recoil arc which goes to the right (on my weak hand side) in my gun. You are answering your own question. Don't try to control the recoil. Take your finger off of the trigger guard and let the recoil happen. The front sight will return to where it was faster if you don't try to control it or force it back. Try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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