BigDave Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 At a local Steel match on Saturday, I noticed that I got to the gun more quickly if I conciously focused on getting my weak hand down as fast as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I think that what the weak hand does is vital to a good draw. Mucho important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Yes Watch Chris slap his tummy on that new Open GM Nationals video that is out. Might be extreme for most, but there is a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I'm a tummy slapper too. I learned it in some defensive shooting classes (Ken Campbell and Louis Awerbuck) as part of the draw/presentation and I stick with it. If nothing else, it makes darn sure my hand is out of the way of the muzzle when I clear plastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Cool.. I was playing with this today at the range. Might be a trick-of-the-day, but I hit two surrender .98's (7-yd, A-zone, Turtle target) in a row focusing on what my weak-hand was doing. That's pretty good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 It has to be a mental thing as the off hand has nothing to do with getting the pistol out of the holster... Don't get bogged down with minutia, just make your move in as straight a line as you can and get to work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 In my case, the difference between a .9 draw and a 1.3 draw on a smallish target isn't in getting the gun out, it's all in the last few inches of gun travel, so getting the WH down quicker might just (might, just) give me more time to set up nicely. But, on the other hand.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Shred If you put a radar gun on how fast each hand/arm moves from above the shoulder to the waist, I am sure you will find that unless you are injured or have a problem specific to one side or the other, there is about the same elapsed time regardless of which side is making the move. Now since you are a lefty, that is the hand with which you make your draw. Since making the draw takes longer, regardless of which hand makes it, the OFF hand is sitting at waist level waiting for the draw to get to the point that the off hand can obtain it's grip also. The off hand is already there, waiting, so how can the presentation part of your stroke be either faster of slower, dependent on how fast the off hand gets to your belt? I just cannot imagine how getting the off hand to belt level is going to speed up your draw... Not trying to be argumentative, but I just don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Me either.. unless it's got something to do with symmetry or sympathetic movement or more settling time or something. I'll put the slo-mo camera on it and see if there's anything visible. At this point I'm leaning towards the mental, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Your video should be very interesting. I just got finished firing and I could not determine any difference in my draw to first shot times by concentrating on what yu suggested, but I am really old and my times are measured with a sun dial... Please post your findings, you now have me very curious... Thanks Tloop Flex you have any input on this, your post indicated you thought the off hand was very important but you did not go any farther with that thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Flexyou have any input on this, your post indicated you thought the off hand was very important but you did not go any farther with that thought... Yep. When I first learn "how" to draw...I hadn't given any thought to what my weak hand was doing. As it was...it just dangled out there anywherer it felt like being. Then, I started zipping it to a "receiving position", waiting for the gun to get there. I think Barnhart teaches that the weak hand should symetrically go thru the same motion as the strong hand. Burkett teaches that the weak hand should meet the gun at the point that your hand would come together if you were to just clap. (IIRC) This past year, I have been taking my weak hand across center. My goal has been to get my weak hand on the gun as soon as possible. Doing this...I can be just as fast (or faster), without as much tension. Added benefits: - The getting the "hand on the gun" portion of the draw is done sooner..releasing some of your focus for the "next thing". - More time to correct any missed grips. Just my thoughts...I don't know that anybody else is doing this...or even cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I have played around quit a bit with redirecting my focus on various aspects of the draw (because I suck). For me (and you might be different) it seems to make no difference if I focus on getting my weak hand into position. However, consiously perceiving my strong hand forming the grip followed by directing my awareness into popping the gun out of the holster does help. I think it's an individual thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 One of the reasons I brought this up in the first place is that I have, almost since I started these games, noticed that when I was going for a "fast" draw I would develop an enormous amount of tension in my stong hand, arm and shoulder (all very bad things). Conversely, when I tried (yeah, yeah, I know...) to relax, I went to far and my weak hand was very "lazy". It seems that when I consciously (is that spelled right?) focus my speed on my weak hand, the stong hand follows suit without the tension I am wanting to avoid. Does this make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Dave: It sure makes sense to me. Kind of goes along with the whole "trying" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Since this is an individual sport and not a team thing, you as an individual competitor needs to find what works for you then try to refine that. If it works for you great. I know there is a lot of comment on TRYING and ANXIETY and TENSION and all that, but you need a bit of that stuff to remain awake till you get to the line...If shooting doesn't get you amped up, you don't have a pulse... I shoot lots better with a little of it, but that is just me. I think Brian is trying to say that confidence is what you need not expectations.Being sure you can handle any situation with the same ability as the best 5% of shooters goes a long way toward being calm on the line. Bottom line is if you are good and know it, you can relax and shoot well. If you aren't as good as a 95%shooter you just have to suffer with the results till you are... I think it all comes down to refining basic skills. Band aid fixes week in and month out do not constitute advancement over the long haul. Better to go back and fix the problem then start again. The best shooters of my era were well schooled in all the basics, and they kicked your butt with them. If you are fast and have the basic skills, God bless you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGlock36 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Well still kind of new to this but when I practice my draw, hands at natural rest at me sides, I bring my left(weak) hand almost to my diaphram and draw with my right bringing the gun to my weak hand. I found for me this gives me time to correct any grip/alignment of front site that I need too before I push out and to the target. Of corse your results may vary but just the way I do it. Thanks. Happy Shooting Paul Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 tightloop makes a good point about bandaid fixes. I remember when I was having trigger freeze and transition problems. I found shooting with a cadence as suggested to me by Ron Avery helped. Brian mentioned that using the cadence thing as a tool to help work through a problem was fine, but to be careful about clinging to the the tool when it was no longer needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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