Custom Limited 2011

[Wild Gene]

When you are truely ready and have the cash up front, you can get some of the co's above and MANY others to finish a gun in 2-7 months.

Via Email, phone, or in person, after negotiating the price:

if I hand/overnight you an envelope with cash or money order paid in full, can you finish my gun in 2-3 months?

Most I have worked with will at least knock off half the build time. Some will say they can do it 2-3. When you spend $4-6000 on a gun up front, you have some leverage.

I put down about half. My bad for not setting a date as you suggested in a later post. I waited years for a Shiloh Sharps, but I knew it was going to be about 30 months going into it. For some reason, I was expecting about four months, don't know where that came from. I spoke with a couple guys that know the company, and they have all said seven to nine months is normal.

I am sure it will be well worth the wait.....

Thanks everyone so far. It is very interesting.

[818-DVC]

Again, I'm not argueing. There are a lot of gunsmiths out there that build great guns for pricing by demand. Why did I spend $3500+ on a limited gun by SV? I did it because I love the quality and feel of the SV guns I shot. I'm really glad I did. I feel it is money well spent.

It is the one gun I don't ever toy with. It has gone bang every time and put the bullet where it was supposed to go. Nothing has broke. There is virtually no wear or tool marks in 60k of mostly major ammo.

I shoot it better than my other guns knowing it's going to flat out run. It's a confidence thing. I'm learning to build my own guns now. I hope I can make a gun as good as SV some day, and so do many of my instructors and gunsmiths.

[PeterMor]

What's a limcat cost? $6-7k??? Wait time 2 years?

Last April Limcat was saying 1 week for a brand new Razorcat open as they had one in stock and 4 weeks for a limited gun. As I said that was in April so that may be different now. The price quoted was also quite a bit lower than $6-7K but it still wasn't cheap

[Wild Gene]

I don't see the value in spending twice as much. I followed the super squad at A8 and watch JJ and others struggle with their Limcats.

I'm not getting one for dependablity, if I wanted dependable, I'd get a Glock, I'm in it for the "cool factor"..

[PeterMor]

I don't see the value in spending twice as much. I followed the super squad at A8 and watch JJ and others struggle with their Limcats.

I'm not getting one for dependablity, if I wanted dependable, I'd get a Glock, I'm in it for the "cool factor"..

DVC + Cool FTW!!!

[Sean Gaines]

if you are any kind of a gunsmith you are going to have a back log. But on the other hand, a long back log doesn't mean that he is the best gunsmith either. I think we sometimes coorelate the two as being the same. We also corelate big $$$ with quality work, which also is a falacy. I have seen 5k guns that I wouldn't give $1500 for. I guess you gotta know what you are looking for, and what kind of service you get after the gun is completed. Another way to speed up the process is not to pay them the full amount up front, pay a little up front for all the parts and pay the rest when the gun is complete, in other words give them an incentive to finish.

[lumpygravy]

Interesting topic.

For those unfortunate enough to live in California (like me), there seem to be few legal avenues to buying a quality hi-cap open/limited blaster. At this point, the avenue that I've been advised to follow is the route where I purchase a "DOJ approved" model from a well known manufacturer and after receiving it (FFL/DROS), send it back for modifications.

From earlier posts, I take it that I'll have anywhere from a 3 month to over a year (or more) wait for a gun that I will have to immediately send back for modifications to make it race ready. I wonder how long it'll take on the second trip.

Is anyone else in CA, going about this in a different (but still legal) manner where they can get what they want in a reasonably timely manner? For the sake of arguement, I'd consider up to 6 months reasonably timely.

[carlosa]

Interesting topic.

For those unfortunate enough to live in California (like me), there seem to be few legal avenues to buying a quality hi-cap open/limited blaster. At this point, the avenue that I've been advised to follow is the route where I purchase a "DOJ approved" model from a well known manufacturer and after receiving it (FFL/DROS), send it back for modifications.

From earlier posts, I take it that I'll have anywhere from a 3 month to over a year (or more) wait for a gun that I will have to immediately send back for modifications to make it race ready. I wonder how long it'll take on the second trip.

Is anyone else in CA, going about this in a different (but still legal) manner where they can get what they want in a reasonably timely manner? For the sake of arguement, I'd consider up to 6 months reasonably timely.

You can buy a Bar-sto CA 40...

you might want to check with Dawson and see if they have any in Stock...

or you can have JV Dynamics build you a gun from scratch.

there's also intra family transfers so if you have a mom/dad, grandparents/ or kids in a state that allows them to buy other guns they can purchase them and give them to you as a gift via the intra family transfer, this is totally legal in CA and at the federal level (as long as the proper paper work is done).

also the Para 16 40 is in the roster.. it will need some tuning dough

Edited December 2, 2010 by carlosa

[G-ManBart]

The topic wasn't price. It was wait times. I just wanted to include that big money gunsmiths with long wait times can be persuaded to push your project ahead.

I'm not buying that as a general reality. Yes, in some cases, a smith will push one project ahead of others for various reasons, but I don't believe $ is usually one of them.

For example, when Derek built my most recent Open gun, I told him that I really only needed to have it a month or two before Nationals, and that I wouldn't be upset if my number came up and he pushed it back to help somebody out who was in a more pressing situation (meaning, didn't have other guns they could use, like I do).

I'm pretty good friends with a couple of the guys you mentioned, and I know they're up to their ears in work, so flashing some extra $, or payment up front isn't going to motivate them to move your gun farther up the list. To a man, they're decent guys, and will help out someone with an emergency (gun pukes two weeks before a big match) before they'd cater to someone looking for preferential treatment. R,

[lumpygravy]

You can buy a Bar-sto CA 40...

Having just recently returned to shooting, I was not aware that Bar-Sto were now building guns. Will have to check them out.

you might want to check with Dawson and see if they have any in Stock...

or you can have JV Dynamics build you a gun from scratch.

Thanks for the Dawson suggestion, but I have a question about JVD.

I know he's in Southern CA so that addresses the in/out of California issue. My understanding is that I'd already have to possess a hi-cap frame so how would I be able to purchase an S_I from him? Does he have some kind of inexhaustible supply of frames?

there's also intra family transfers so if you have a mom/dad, grandparents/ or kids in a state that allows them to buy other guns they can purchase them and give them to you as a gift via the intra family transfer, this is totally legal in CA and at the federal level (as long as the proper paper work is done).

I thought hard about the intra family thing.

I have inlaws that live in Nevada and conceivably, my BIL could buy the gun, gift it to his dad (who lives about 15 minutes away from me) and then I could PPT it off of his hands. I'm just not sure I'm willing to ask all parties to go through all of that. Maybe this will be a good dinner conversation topic for the next family get together. The BIL would be willing... He shoots occassionally.

Thanks for your info on Bar-sto and Dawson.

Edited December 2, 2010 by lumpygravy

[G-ManBart]

there's also intra family transfers so if you have a mom/dad, grandparents/ or kids in a state that allows them to buy other guns they can purchase them and give them to you as a gift via the intra family transfer, this is totally legal in CA and at the federal level (as long as the proper paper work is done).

That really isn't the topic of the thread, and I normally wouldn't reply, but it could be bad legal advice that really shouldn't be passed along. Edit to clarify: it's only legal within a very narrow set of constraints. There was a whole thread on this if anyone is interested.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117094&view=findpost&p=1327151

Edited December 2, 2010 by G-ManBart

[carlosa]

1)BIL won't cut it for intra fam only grandparents, parents, or son/daughter

2)Jvd has frames

3)Dawson sells the barsto

Sorry for the quick response I'm driving

[carlosa]

Gman we talked about this before..

It's not a straw purchase..

http://www.dontlie.org/why.cfm

Edited December 2, 2010 by carlosa

[lumpygravy]

1)BIL won't cut it for intra fam only grandparents, parents, or son/daughter

2)Jvd has frames

3)Dawson sells the barsto

Sorry for the quick response I'm driving

1] Please don't do this while driving.

2] Per G-Man Bart's reply, this has drifted and I am going to stop now.

Apologies to the OP for taking this down an unintended road.

[Wild Gene]

No offense taken, we are still talking guns, and how long it can take to get them. And i am happy I am not in California!

I too have to agree with Bart, I don't think that payment is a huge issue, at least that payment manipulation can make a big difference with a quality smith.

Yes it is a bit OT, but interesting.

We are all blessed to be able to order these many fine pistols, even our friends in California.

Regards,

Geno

[EkuJustice]

It could very well be a straw purchase depending on the exact situation. Person asks another to buy it for them as a gift and then gives them a gift of cash I would consider a straw purchase. On the other hand if the gun is given as truely a gift ie father gives son the gun as a college graduation gift then it would not be. Helped a buddy in his shop and have seen all sorts of attempts at getting around it

[carlosa]

It could very well be a straw purchase depending on the exact situation. Person asks another to buy it for them as a gift and then gives them a gift of cash I would consider a straw purchase. On the other hand if the gun is given as truely a gift ie father gives son the gun as a college graduation gift then it would not be. Helped a buddy in his shop and have seen all sorts of attempts at getting around it

Read the link I posted it explains what a straw purchase is in the context of a firearm sale.

Cheers,

[lumpygravy]

Back on to the topic of waiting:

A long time ago - like 14 years ago - I bought my first open gun from some outfit in SoCal who supplied guns built by Don Kehoe. As I recall, the wait was close to six months and at the time it felt like forever. Then to add insult to injury, when it arrived at my FFL, I STILL HAD TO WAIT another ten days!!

I suspect that like any of our toys, if subjected to a wait of any length, it is always too long.

It took six months to order and receive my car.

Maybe six is a magic number for me.

[818-DVC]

I'm from Cali. I know your pain.

How many days for a dragon cat?

Bart I don't want to name names, or quote emails, but some of these smiths are in it for making a living.

I did the SV order route after buying a barsto. They are nice guns, but the barsto are really just glorified CA approved edges. Mine underwent a trigger job w replacement sear, disconnect, Ti strut, hammer (pre C&S safeties and trigger parts) aftec, tri top, Machine slide to frame fit, ICE magwell, hard chrome when the blue wore off the frame and slide within the 1st 10k rounds etc. My $2400 gun became $3400 pretty quick.

For a Californian, Either buy a frame and send it to Tripp or Sailors,CCG,MCguns, Mclearn, Brazos, GANS, TSS, JVDynamics, dan bedell, whoever! Or order an SV. I couldn't of been happier. And I got it much sooner than the 7 months they were backlogged;)

[PeterMor]

.... I got it much sooner than the 7 months they were backlogged;)

Did you pay extra/up front to get it quicker?

[818-DVC]

Paid in full up front. No extra.

just asked it be done for my birthday. It was at my door 2 days before it.

[G-ManBart]

Bart I don't want to name names, or quote emails, but some of these smiths are in it for making a living.

Of course they have to make a living.

There might be a few who have different policies for folks who pay up front, but most don't. If they decided to do it on the sly, they'd be risking pissing off a whole bunch of customers (once word got out) to make one happy....that would be pretty bad from a business perspective. R,

[Sean Gaines]

Bart I don't want to name names, or quote emails, but some of these smiths are in it for making a living.

Of course they have to make a living.

There might be a few who have different policies for folks who pay up front, but most don't. If they decided to do it on the sly, they'd be risking pissing off a whole bunch of customers (once word got out) to make one happy....that would be pretty bad from a business perspective. R,

I hate to say this but at $5k+ a pop, they are making more than a living. I won't mention any names, but a gunsmith I know can make a gun in 10-12 hours, and it have all the bells and whistles and be very nice gun.

[Corey]

I hate to say this but at $5k+ a pop, they are making more than a living. I won't mention any names, but a gunsmith I know can make a gun in 10-12 hours, and it have all the bells and whistles and be very nice gun.

lets see....$5,000 for 12 hours of work... thats over $400 an hour...yea, im quitting my job and starting my own gunsmithing business

[Matt Cheely]

Let us not forget that there is a parts cost in there.

And not to mention that even if the gun can be built in those 10-12 hours, there is still all the time doing everything else.

Dealing with customers, paperwork, ordering parts, and all that goes into running a business. The per hour rate you think the gunsmith is getting goes down pretty fast when you take all that into consideration.