Scales

[TheNordwand]

Greetings Folks,

I'm working on Dan Newberry's Optimal Weight Load and am stuck on the quality of my electronic scale. Newberry says a high quality scale is very important. My question is, what is "high quality" within the context of reloading? Is the Dillon D-Terminator Electronic Scale sufficient for the task; if not, what spec. is needed for a scale to be considered appropriate, e.g. the dillon has an error rate of 0.1 grains.

Does this question make even a lick of sense?

I've spent a good chunk of money and really don't think I need a 0.0001 grain scale....

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

TheNordwand

[Flexmoney]

I'm working on Dan Newberry's Optimal Weight Load

For those that didn't know...like me: http://optimalcharge...mbarqspace.com/

Having not read up on that procedure, I'm not sure what you are after. However, one common trick is to weigh out 10 charges at once...which will give you an easy average (just mentally move the decimal point over one).

For example, with my pistol loads, I might be going for 4.2g of TightGroup. I throw a number of setting charges (and just dump them back into the powder hopper), then set about pulling 10 powder charges and putting them in the pan on the scale. I would theoretically end up with 42.0g of powder. Maybe it comes out to 42.2 grains. Mentally, I adjust the decimal and get my average, which given my example, would be 4.22g

[Sarge]

I tried to read the link but

For what we shoot the Dillon electronic scale is all anyone needs. It has been flawless for me. I and many others do just as Flex said when measuring.

[Pat Miles]

+1 for Dillon and Flex's routine.

.0001 grain scale? Your powder would have to have the consistency of dust!

Pat

Edited October 1, 2010 by whatmeworry

[TheNordwand]

I get how hard it is to try to read thru a protocol, can be a total drag. Given that the author is saying his process optimizes based upon the barrel harmonics and provides an envelope for variation in temperature, bullet weight, brass differences, etc. it sounds like it might be worth a look and some time being a geek....

In running thru his 20 step process my numbers look like this for my .308 steps 1-5:

Step Weight in gr. # of Rounds to load

1 thru 3 Sierra Manual Max Load 175 gr. HPBT Matchking Varget 41.700

4.1 Max Charge 41.7 gr. less 10% 1 Sighters 37.530 1

4.2 37.53 + 2% (add 2%) 2 38.281 1

4.3 37.53 + 4% (add 2%) 3 39.031 1

5.1 37.53 + 6% (add 2%) 1 40.577 3

5.2 37.53 + 6.7% (add 0.7%) 2 41.646 3

5.3 37.53 + 7.4% (add 0.7%) 3 43.580 3

The left column is the optimal charge weight step as stated on his web site. The resulting weights that need to be measured are in rather small incriments. Does anyone know if a scale with a 0.1 error margin can handle this level of precision?

[TheNordwand]

Sorry the table didn't behave the numbers look like this:

Max Weight in gr.41.700

1. 37.530
   
2. 38.281
   
3. 39.031
   
4. 40.577
   
5. 41.646
   
6. 43.580
   

[liljohnnie]

By reading Mr. Newberry's procedure i never see mention of a .0001 powder adjustment. I believe any quality scale (Dillons D-Terminator being one) will be sufficient to develop the loads you are trying to achieve. He suggests that after you find the ocw that when you load three rounds, One being the ocw load, one being +1% and one being -1%, that either the high or the low will group with your standard load but not both. This suggests to me that .1gr scale accuracy is sufficient even for tack driver load development.

[Boxerglocker]

I'm working on Dan Newberry's Optimal Weight Load

For those that didn't know...like me: http://optimalcharge...mbarqspace.com/

Having not read up on that procedure, I'm not sure what you are after. However, one common trick is to weigh out 10 charges at once...which will give you an easy average (just mentally move the decimal point over one).

For example, with my pistol loads, I might be going for 4.2g of TightGroup. I throw a number of setting charges (and just dump them back into the powder hopper), then set about pulling 10 powder charges and putting them in the pan on the scale. I would theoretically end up with 42.0g of powder. Maybe it comes out to 42.2 grains. Mentally, I adjust the decimal and get my average, which given my example, would be 4.22g

I like it, never though about that... always measure 5 or so taking note. Then dump and confirm with 2-3 more. The math makes perfect sense... thanks Flex.

[ERIC]

For $30 more, I'd get one of these:

Link

[Boxerglocker]

For $30 more, I'd get one of these:

Link

That accuracy range is nice, and wow 30 year warranty!

[JShumate]

Does anyone know if the Dillon D-Terminator can be use while it's in the optional scale cover? My reloading area is also part of my woodworking area. Also, is the cover hinged or can the lid be lifted off?

Thanks/John

[benos]

For what we do, IMO, a high quality scale is not important. Especially if you do the "weigh 10 charges when making your final adjustment" technique. Because after setting the scale, then each actual dispensed charge is controlled by the Powder Measure.

be

[Sarge]

Does anyone know if the Dillon D-Terminator can be use while it's in the optional scale cover? My reloading area is also part of my woodworking area. Also, is the cover hinged or can the lid be lifted off?

Thanks/John

I use mine in the case. The lid latches in front and hinges backward. I position it a few inches from the wall and the lid leans on the wall.

[kevinj308]

Here's some info on scales from my second favorite place on the web.

http://www.6mmbr.com/mxx123test.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/prometheus.html

One of the things that I take away from the first article is a comparison test with a RCBS 10-10 scale by Jerry Tierney. He's a pretty accomplished dude in that world and his RCBS held plus/minus a tenth of a grain no problem. If you're going by 1% increments then you should be well within tolerance with any high quality beam scale or one of the mid priced electronics like the Dillon.

I still use my Dillon beam scale. I zero it every time I take it out, only takes a minute and it doesn't care if the cat farted or the planets aren't in alignment. When the check weight says it's so, it's so. I do my thing in the same environment I zero'd it in and then put it away till next time. I just like the simplicity and reliability of it.

Good luck with your chocolate ice cream

Kevin

[Bello]

the enos scale is pretty good and has a 20 year warranty! and after you warm it up a bit the thing is damn near perfect. Although his price plus shipping i believe is a lil over 80 bucks then a week ago i found the same exact scale for 20 bucks less ya im a lil upset! but its a great scale

[larry cazes]

Greetings Folks,

I'm working on Dan Newberry's Optimal Weight Load and am stuck on the quality of my electronic scale. Newberry says a high quality scale is very important. My question is, what is "high quality" within the context of reloading? Is the Dillon D-Terminator Electronic Scale sufficient for the task; if not, what spec. is needed for a scale to be considered appropriate, e.g. the dillon has an error rate of 0.1 grains.

Does this question make even a lick of sense?

I've spent a good chunk of money and really don't think I need a 0.0001 grain scale....

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

TheNordwand

Depends on your expectations. In any industry job I have ever held using a measuring device with a basic error equal to the increments that you are intending to measure is NOT acceptable. Little details like significant digits on the display, basic accuracy, and repeatability may come into play. If any of these things ring a bell or are of interest to you then there are quite a few scales available for not much more than what the reloading mfgs sell that have much better specs. There are some threads here that list some of the others that folks have suggested so do a search. I have used one of the Uniqetek scales for many years now and it has been great. I also have a small Ohaus jewelers scale that I paid $180 for that is of excellent quality as well.

Edited November 1, 2010 by larry cazes

[Powder Finger]

Greetings Folks,

I'm working on Dan Newberry's Optimal Weight Load and am stuck on the quality of my electronic scale. Newberry says a high quality scale is very important. My question is, what is "high quality" within the context of reloading? Is the Dillon D-Terminator Electronic Scale sufficient for the task; if not, what spec. is needed for a scale to be considered appropriate, e.g. the dillon has an error rate of 0.1 grains.

Does this question make even a lick of sense?

I've spent a good chunk of money and really don't think I need a 0.0001 grain scale....

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

TheNordwand

Depends on your expectations. In any industry job I have ever held using a measuring device with a basic error equal to the increments that you are intending to measure is NOT acceptable. Little details like significant digits on the display, basic accuracy, and repeatability may come into play. If any of these things ring a bell or are of interest to you then there are quite a few scales available for not much more than what the reloading mfgs sell that have much better specs. There are some threads here that list some of the others that folks have suggested so do a search. I have used one of the Uniqetek scales for many years now and it has been great. I also have a small Ohaus jewelers scale that I paid $180 for that is of excellent quality as well.

I think what Larry is saying or at least it is what i have found is basically if you have a .1 accurate scale with a .1 display

you may end up adding or removing a couple tenths to get a different reading on the scale.

so in reality you don't have a .1 scale.

Also for the .308 just find a load that you can add or subtract .5 and still shoot well. Then you have a forgiving balanced load.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Powder Finger

[TheNordwand]

Thanks everyone. You've been most thoughtful and, as a result, helpful.

Kind Regards,

The Nordwand