Jesse Tischauser Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 For some reason I have lost interest in this thing. Changing rules, unclear format. All of a sudden changes for next year even. Just gonna go about my usual going to matches. Good luck to all of you. Great effort Chad. Thanks. How can you guys give up on $60k worth of purse money? Give them a break and a little time to figure out how to make it all work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 For some reason I have lost interest in this thing. Changing rules, unclear format. All of a sudden changes for next year even. Just gonna go about my usual going to matches. Good luck to all of you. Great effort Chad. Thanks. How can you guys give up on $60k worth of purse money? Give them a break and a little time to figure out how to make it all work. I wouldn't say he's giving up on the money. He's just giving up on trying to understand how it works. If he goes to the match and places well enough, he gets to shoot in the shoot offs, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I like it...and yes it needs a little tuning Having been at two previous shoot offs, and the final shoot off Most were won or lost with rifle And on several occasions a malf with the shotgun...drastically altered the final outcome I dont see an EASY fix for errors...but I think it will only get better as time goes by Looking forward to next season Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) It pretty obvious the rifle is the key. Give each shooter 15 minutes with a rifle to zero it and make it dedicated to them for tbe match and it would be ON! Solution to figuring out the stats is easy too, Linda Chico! Edited September 17, 2010 by jtischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I like it...and yes it needs a little tuning Having been at two previous shoot offs, and the final shoot off Most were won or lost with rifle And on several occasions a malf with the shotgun...drastically altered the final outcome I dont see an EASY fix for errors...but I think it will only get better as time goes by Looking forward to next season Jim See now that's just WRONG. If they were using their own guns, then fine, if it malfs it's on you. But when you're using the provided shotgun and it malfs, it should be a reshoot. That's not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 i disagree on the malfs. partly because i'm not absolutely sure some of the ones i witnessed were not shooter induced. (i watched in person 4 of the 5 shoot offs, SMM3G, BRM3G, FNH, and RM3G) its kinda odd when someone is way behind coming off the rifle and the shotgun, which ran fine for previous and post shooters suddenly chokes and they get a "do over". in fact, i'll bet that if you wrote the shoot off rules that once the horn sounds what you run is what you run, there would be virtually no malfs. these shotguns are running just fine for slight frame shooters like Di and Tasha, so why do they choke on 200 lb guys..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 i disagree on the malfs. partly because i'm not absolutely sure some of the ones i witnessed were not shooter induced. (i watched in person 4 of the 5 shoot offs, SMM3G, BRM3G, FNH, and RM3G) its kinda odd when someone is way behind coming off the rifle and the shotgun, which ran fine for previous and post shooters suddenly chokes and they get a "do over". in fact, i'll bet that if you wrote the shoot off rules that once the horn sounds what you run is what you run, there would be virtually no malfs. these shotguns are running just fine for slight frame shooters like Di and Tasha, so why do they choke on 200 lb guys..? They choke because there's no such thing as a shotgun that runs 100% . . . but if someone's OWN shotgun malfs in a match, fine. If a gun provided to a shooter malfs during a shootoff worth $5k . .. . that's F'ed up. Besides that, what does the stature of the person shooting have to do with anything? Gas guns like the FN aren't sensitive to that stuff like inertia driven Benellis . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I think it's only to be expected that there are some bugs to work out. Was the first RM3G or 1st MGM Ironman a perfect match? I'm sure match directors make notes every match they hold on dos and don'ts for their next event. 3GN is no different. You can make some gas guns choke by holding them too softly. I haven't tried it with my SLP, so it may not be the case w/ the FN gun, but a Rem will do it pretty reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Its FNs match, shooting FN guns is a given, and thats just fine. Having seen several rifle shooters fail, and as I watched closely ...the fail rate seemed to follow a specific rifle. I think each shooter getting to test and verify zero, (both rifle and pistol) would be a very good idea. I hope this venue continues, and becomes main stream gun racing Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 See now that's just WRONG. If they were using their own guns, then fine, if it malfs it's on you. But when you're using the provided shotgun and it malfs, it should be a reshoot. That's not right. But a reshot is not right either! If you are winning and having a great run hosing down the plate rack and the guy BEHIND you has a "malfunction", is that fair to you? Or the shotgun "fires" when you are 6 feet way from it on the way to pistol, if that right? Ive been at 3 of the shootoffs, as a spectator and an RO and there are some things that need to be changed. 3GN needs to talk to some of the top shooters who don't run any matches and are not involved with any of the sponsors. Frankly, I'd like to see Chad shoot a few matches and the shoot-off (maybe he has already). I think they will listen and make improvements if they are constructive. Let's give them a bit of time to work on it. Send them your comments. Whether you like it or not, it IS good for the sport. I've had 2 or 3 "non-shooters" ask me if they come come watch a local match and 2 local LEOs ask if they can come shoot a match. Prior to this, they had no IDEA what was out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) I like it...and yes it needs a little tuning Having been at two previous shoot offs, and the final shoot off Most were won or lost with rifle And on several occasions a malf with the shotgun...drastically altered the final outcome I dont see an EASY fix for errors...but I think it will only get better as time goes by Looking forward to next season Jim See now that's just WRONG. If they were using their own guns, then fine, if it malfs it's on you. But when you're using the provided shotgun and it malfs, it should be a reshoot. That's not right. If there is a malf there is a reshoot...way to jump to conclusions. The statement was simply made that at times a malfunction changes the outcome. There have been several malfs at very opportune times for guys who are trailing in the run. Maybe its just coincidence but then again maybe its not. All that being said....yes there were several organizational problems and much knashing over the 3 Gun Nation process. But to Chad, Pete, Andy, FN, Leupold, Surfire et al and everyone involved with 3 Gun Nation THANKS FOR STEPPING UP AND PULLING THIS OFF, it is very evident that your efforts and work will change this sport and make it better. Edited September 17, 2010 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Mine malfunctioned when I was ahead, and so did Kurt's. Happen to be the same gun. I think it is that bs'in gypsy Larry that throws one in there to mess with folks! I think most would just be happy with consistency from the rules. Great work getting sponsors and air time. Chad and crew did a great job writing and producing a show. Mark Wills is an absolute wonder for the game, and he can sing a bit too! See you all next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 In my 1st run at BRM3G, I picked up the rifle (#xxx020) that another shooter on either one or two runs before me used with considerable difficulty. I picked it up by accident, and didn't realize it was the "problem rifle" until it was too late. I cleared the plate rack in 8 shots, winning that round. I used the same rifle in the next round intentionally, clearing the rack in 7 rounds. James Darst used it against me in my 3rd round, and we came off the rifles in a dead heat. There were shots going all over the place, but not all of it can be blamed on zero. One thing they should do with the rifles is use optics that have no external adjustments. That would keep anything from getting bumped. Chad shot our local 3 gun match last month and did pretty well. I think he's hooked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 The rifles are verified for zero and then the knobs zeroed out. I took a look at all of them after the match and they were all set for zero still. I zeroed them before the championship as did Tommy Thacker. They were all smacking within an inch of the center of the plate. I know in my three runs during the shootoff I used the same rifle each time (the one in Idaho). The first two times I managed to get my hits reasonably quickly. The third time I got buck fever and was shooting when the reticle was anywhere but on the plate. When the shot broke when the reticle was on the plate, the plate went down. When I pulled the trigger between plates, or off in space somewhere, the plate stayed up. I did hear a couple guys talking after the Championship that the rifles were hitting low. I think this likely had more to do with triggers than scopes. There just isn't a lot of difference in the zero on an optic shooter to shooter, not like irons at least. As far as the malfunctions, the rule is fairly simple. If the malfunction changes the course of the shootoff it's a reshoot. If it doesn't, it's not. Basically if you're rifle takes a dump and the other guy is already knocking over the stop plate, no reshoot. If you guys are reasonably close it's a reshoot. This is a commercial enterprise that FNH in particular has dropped a ton of money on. It's not meant to be a showcase for whatever gun you already own, it's meant to highlight the products of the sponsors, like FNH, Leupold, and SureFire in particular. FNH is going to do everything they can to make sure the guns run the best they can. Each one was cleaned and test fired ahead of time, each one was fed top quality ammo (Federal Gold Medal in the Rifle and Shotgun). Each one was sighted in by two guys who are reasonably capable on a rifle. Is this the best possible shootoff scenario? Nope. Is it as fair and consistent as possible for everyone involved? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 The rifles are verified for zero and then the knobs zeroed out. I took a look at all of them after the match and they were all set for zero still. I zeroed them before the championship as did Tommy Thacker. They were all smacking within an inch of the center of the plate. I know in my three runs during the shootoff I used the same rifle each time (the one in Idaho). The first two times I managed to get my hits reasonably quickly. The third time I got buck fever and was shooting when the reticle was anywhere but on the plate. When the shot broke when the reticle was on the plate, the plate went down. When I pulled the trigger between plates, or off in space somewhere, the plate stayed up. I did hear a couple guys talking after the Championship that the rifles were hitting low. I think this likely had more to do with triggers than scopes. There just isn't a lot of difference in the zero on an optic shooter to shooter, not like irons at least. As far as the malfunctions, the rule is fairly simple. If the malfunction changes the course of the shootoff it's a reshoot. If it doesn't, it's not. Basically if you're rifle takes a dump and the other guy is already knocking over the stop plate, no reshoot. If you guys are reasonably close it's a reshoot. This is a commercial enterprise that FNH in particular has dropped a ton of money on. It's not meant to be a showcase for whatever gun you already own, it's meant to highlight the products of the sponsors, like FNH, Leupold, and SureFire in particular. FNH is going to do everything they can to make sure the guns run the best they can. Each one was cleaned and test fired ahead of time, each one was fed top quality ammo (Federal Gold Medal in the Rifle and Shotgun). Each one was sighted in by two guys who are reasonably capable on a rifle. Is this the best possible shootoff scenario? Nope. Is it as fair and consistent as possible for everyone involved? I think so. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Did a couple of post just get deleted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Did a couple of post just get deleted? Where are the results posted? Edited September 18, 2010 by jtischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 The Forum Guidelines are posted at the top of the forum page. I suggest that everyone read them and be familiar with them. This forum is not an avenue to air your dirty laundry.And as such, shill accounts will not be tolerated. <<The local 3 gun Mod Squad>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 For some reason I have lost interest in this thing. Changing rules, unclear format. All of a sudden changes for next year even. Just gonna go about my usual going to matches. Good luck to all of you. Great effort Chad. Thanks. How can you guys give up on $60k worth of purse money? Give them a break and a little time to figure out how to make it all work. I wouldn't say he's giving up on the money. He's just giving up on trying to understand how it works. If he goes to the match and places well enough, he gets to shoot in the shoot offs, right? Well, originally you had to sign a form saying that you wanted to be in the competition. Separate from the 3 gun match. I don't know how it is now. My scores at SMM3G got lost from the 3Gun Nation Table and never recorded for the SMM3G Match. Around that time my hip got smashed by some overweight ranger landing on it instead of pulling up. Took me all season to realize God wasn't gonna fix it. Now I have a new hip, no wings and will actually be able to shoot matches instead of worrying about the terrain. I like shoot offs-goes back to beginnings of IPSC and Jeff Cooper-where the shoot off was the match. Having watched a bunch of them this year-I don't know. My favorite was when Kurt Miller and Taran Butler decided at Ft. Benning to shoot the 100yd plates off hand-just a shooters decision. Not in the rules. Was way cool, though. 3Gun Nation saved the Blue Ridge Match this year and I thought that Chad and crew would take that info and use it. Lots more shoot offs and really just a great 3Gun Nation Event. When its too complicated for an average shooter to figure out how to get in to the 3Gun Nation Shootoff- I lose interest. There's a lot going on in 3 Gun-logistics of getting guns to the match, deciding how to shoot the match, checking stages, transportation. If guys want to make it more complicated by adding in the requirements for the 3 Gun Nation shoot off-go for it. Not for me. I will put my own 5K down on the table and challenge you to a shootoff. Not many takers on that one. Like I said. Great effort Chad. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 (edited) I will put my own 5K down on the table and challenge you to a shootoff. Not many takers on that one.. Actually I'll take some of that action;). How about we start at $500? Why dont we all throw in $50 and run a shoot off following the 3 gun nation deal. Use your own guns. If your gear malfunctions tough. Matchups are drawn at random. Now that sounds like a fun shoot off! Edited September 19, 2010 by jtischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruePunisher Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 I will put my own 5K down on the table and challenge you to a shootoff. Not many takers on that one.. Actually I'll take some of that action;). How about we start at $500? Why dont we all throw in $50 and run a shoot off following the 3 gun nation deal. Use your own guns. If your gear malfunctions tough. Matchups are drawn at random. Now that sounds like a fun shoot off! That could be fun. I wouldn't even mind challenging somebody just for the bragging rights, no money on the line. I will never be one of the people that gets to shoot at an official 3GN shoot off so it would be fun to just shoot it against some fellow 3 gunner buddies man on man just for experience. In general, I compete just to compete because I enjoy it, not for money. As long as I don't come in last I go home a happy camper. If I was shooting for money I should have stopped before I started and been many thousands of dollars ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 this is starting to sound like the calcutta we do at the end of some sporting clays matches... and i'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Or a Nassau at the turn. Punisher-anybody can win in the 3G Nation shootoff-that's the fun of it. Even you.No negative thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 It would definately make for some great TV when and if an amateur neat out a top shooter in a shoot off. That Blue Ridge episode was still my favorite because you're cheering fir the underdog. When it's Taran vs. Jerry there ain't no underdog in that fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 FNH was my fav. When the quiet guy just sneaks in there and does exactly what he's supposed to do and takes 'em all down. (rob r) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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