Misfires

[kevin c]

I'm working on figuring this out, but I'm hoping for some advice to steer me to a quick solution since I have a big match coming up in just four days.

I have a year old Vanek Classic GM trigger in my G34/35 (I have the appropriate strikers for each caliber). The kit has maybe 5 K rounds on it. The top end has a ISMI #11 recoil spring in, and the other pertinent springs are Charlie's

Just this weekend I started getting first round misfires in the 9mm setup. This is after hand racking the round in from a std cap mag not loaded to capacity, with the slide fully in battery. The trigger will feel a bit more forward than usual, and has no take up at all, compared to what I usually feel. It will then break to the full after travel position without ignition. The round racked out afterwards is pristine - NO striker indent at all.

The malf is intermittent, but I can only get it racking in the rounds, and never when the gun cycles in firing.

Yes, I can go back to stock, but I'd like to sort this out, if for no other reason than to understand the mechanics. I'm thinking that maybe I have just enough wear that the striker tang is slipping, but why only on the first hand racked round?

Any thoughts?

TIA,

Kevin

Edited July 19, 2010 by kevin c

[Dan Hefta]

Hi Kevin, when you pull the trigger is the slide moving at all, taking the gun out of battery? I had that happen to my G34 when I had an 11 lbs recoil spring. I switched to a 13 lbs and have had no issues since. I am not sure if this is your problem but it's easy to check without going to the range.

Edited July 19, 2010 by danscrapbags

[kevin c]

That was the first thing I checked - the slide is not moving out of battery that I can see.

I should also mention that when the malf occurs, the trigger breaks to the rear very easily, with none of the striker spring tension that I am used to feeling on the normal break.

Edited July 19, 2010 by kevin c

[Beretta Lover]

the only thing I know to do when striker fired guns have misfires is:

1. use federal primers as often as possible, though my stock 3.5 connectr will touch off military hard rifle primers reliably, when I load them correctly

2. make sure you really are seating theprimers, very fully probably more than yoi are used to needing to

3. The OAL of the cartridge can be long enough to keep the slide very slightly "out of battery". Long cartridges can do this

4. If your recoil spring is too weak, you can also get intermittent misfires as again, the gun is not entirely locked up, even if it fires most of the time.

for me bullet length and really deep primer seating fixed most of my issues with this

[JBP55]

the only thing I know to do when striker fired guns have misfires is:

1. use federal primers as often as possible, though my stock 3.5 connectr will touch off military hard rifle primers reliably, when I load them correctly

2. make sure you really are seating theprimers, very fully probably more than yoi are used to needing to

3. The OAL of the cartridge can be long enough to keep the slide very slightly "out of battery". Long cartridges can do this

4. If your recoil spring is too weak, you can also get intermittent misfires as again, the gun is not entirely locked up, even if it fires most of the time.

for me bullet length and really deep primer seating fixed most of my issues with this

[JBP55]

This and replace the firing pin spring if it has fired 5K rounds.

[JBP55]

the only thing I know to do when striker fired guns have misfires is:

1. use federal primers as often as possible, though my stock 3.5 connectr will touch off military hard rifle primers reliably, when I load them correctly

2. make sure you really are seating theprimers, very fully probably more than yoi are used to needing to

3. The OAL of the cartridge can be long enough to keep the slide very slightly "out of battery". Long cartridges can do this

4. If your recoil spring is too weak, you can also get intermittent misfires as again, the gun is not entirely locked up, even if it fires most of the time.

for me bullet length and really deep primer seating fixed most of my issues with this

This and replace the firing pin spring if it has fired 5K rounds.

[kevin c]

The problem, though, is not that I'm getting light strikes (I've had those with other set ups). It's that I'm not getting a strike at all. It feels as though the striker is slipping off the cruciform sear before the trigger bar is anywhere close to retracting it fully. I'm guessing the engagement surfaces are now worn to the point where intermittently they won't hold. That I get, but why only on a hand racked round?

I have an orange inspection back plate that I'll put in to see directly. I also have an email in to the man himself, but any and all ideas are welcome, on both what this might be and what fixes could be tried.

Kevin

[BR]

Kevin-

I bet you already did, but have you checked for a broken trigger spring? The symptoms you describe are the same as for a broken trigger spring. If that is not it, then I can only recommend calling Charlie. Let us know what you figure out the problem is. Thanks.

-br

[EkuJustice]

Are you press checking the gun for the first shot? I had one that would do that if if i press checked the gun with the spring in the new drilled hole. If I put it in the original it would work 100percent. The trigger would go back with no resistance at all

[kevin c]

Trigger spring is OK, and no, I don't press check.

Charlie suspects that the trigger is not resetting - he suggested putting the spring back into the original trigger bar hole. I'll report back.

KC

[open17]

Trigger spring is OK, and no, I don't press check.

Charlie suspects that the trigger is not resetting - he suggested putting the spring back into the original trigger bar hole. I'll report back.

KC

What are you using for lube on the connector/trigger bar? I've seen it happen just as

you describe with a grease or slide glide lube. Try cleaning up everything and using a

light oil.

[Whitefish]

Trigger spring is OK, and no, I don't press check.

Charlie suspects that the trigger is not resetting - he suggested putting the spring back into the original trigger bar hole. I'll report back.

KC

What are you using for lube on the connector/trigger bar? I've seen it happen just as

you describe with a grease or slide glide lube. Try cleaning up everything and using a

light oil.

I had the same issue with my G17 open gun and it only happened on the first shot after loading the gun to start a stage. The trigger shoe was forward (visually looked like the trigger had reset), but nothing happened when the trigger was pulled - da nada . BTW - it is a Vanek super trigger kit - no extra holes to move to.

After attempting several unfruitful solutions, curses, and incantations, I cleaned off the connector and trigger bar of all the #1 slide glide lube at Dr. Bill's suggestion and used a light Brownells synthetic gun oil instead. That seems to have solved the issue thus far. Fingers crossed!

Bill and I believe the slide glide was creating a suction between the bar and connector or it was slipping off when the slide was racked to load and make ready. Your problem sounds identical. Try this easy solution.

[kevin c]

That's something to think about. I usually run that sucker almost bone dry. I just put a drop of BreakFree CLP on the palm of the connector before the match, and remember now that a bit got on top of the cruciform. The CLP used is old stuff in a needle dispenser bottle that I haven't emptied in years, and there is a lot of teflon particles in the suspension. Maybe the viscosity of the stuff has changed.

Man, if that's what it is, that's a mighty finicky trigger (really have liked it, though).

I'm home now, and will mess with this a little, and report back later.

Edited July 20, 2010 by kevin c

[Beretta Lover]

I oil my glock pretty goog. barrel hood, barrel near the front of te slide, cruciform trigger bar and a few other places. I dont thik your having ammo problems or malf from over oiling.

[vluc]

I'd look at recoil spring. When I played with the 11, it started out fine, was wonderful, but then started to go away on me, and I no longer felt confident in using it.

[EkuJustice]

Mine had problems in the upper hole in one upper I had. It would do the exact same thing, trigger goes back no resistance at all. Switching it to the factory hole it has been 100 percent and will set off any primer out there including cci

[kevin c]

Update:

I cleaned everything up and couldn't get the malf to recur. I applied the same oil to the cruciform and again no malfunctions.

I went back to the original hole in the trigger bar and, while I couldn't really see a difference with the inspection plate in, I felt more confident with that setup.

The gun went through the 200 odd rounds of the match and prior test firing w/o a hitch.

I will go back to Charlie's repositioned trigger bar hole and see what happens.

kc

ps - the trigger really didn't feel all that different, original vs modded trigger bar spring hole, but I admit that, what with building my stage on a hot day and then shooting the whole match with the RO's the next, I was dog tired, not on my game and didn't shoot well, so maybe I didn't pick up on any subtle differences.