Scoped open gun focus: target or dot?

[CiDirkona]

I recently built an open glock17, and have been getting inconsistent results with shooting it, but I also don't think I'm as practiced and familiar with it as I am my iron/fiber glock17. I've it got to feel natural with my Limited 17 that my eye goes straight to the front sight and tracks the movement through the shot, and trying to use eno's 5 different focus types -- but the pistol optics world is completely new to me.

When I mount the gun, should my eye be focussed on the dot or the target? Treat it like a front site or just place the dot on top of the target?

Thanks!

Edited June 28, 2010 by CiDirkona

[GrumpyOne]

You should try to see "through" the dot at the target. After all, you aren't shooting the dot, but the target.

[CiDirkona]

You should try to see "through" the dot at the target. After all, you aren't shooting the dot, but the target.

That's what I was attempting for this weekend's steel challenge, but I seemed to just suck at it and it felt like it was just wrong, like trying to move the window to the next plate, and then put the dot on it, like I had to aim twice. I also noticed that I don't choke up high enough or grip the frame the same with the open 17 as I do the litmited 17 -- even when I use the same frame and just swap slides! I definitely need more dry practice draw/mounts as there were also several times I drew (drawed?) at the buzzer, mounted the gun and then had to wiggle it until I found the dot in the window...

Any other tips for getting used to or using a scoped pistol?

[CocoBolo]

You should try to see "through" the dot at the target. After all, you aren't shooting the dot, but the target.

Any other tips for getting used to or using a scoped pistol?

Don't short arm it. You can get away with some lazy short arming with iron sights but you must mount the open gun correctly or you will lose the dot.

Make sure that you turret the upper body and keep the gun alignment with the eye fixed, head up and straight.

Eyes to next target put dot on it, watch dot as shot breaks.

Try double plugging, the big noise may be affecting you.

[GrumpyOne]

Practice. Practice. Practice. Looking through the dot is sometimes hard to do, and I myself sometimes get caught up in staring at the dot when I'm shooting. The trick is to know that you are staring at the dot and not really at the target, then shift your focus back to the target.

As far as moving to the next target, try this. At home, with your unloaded open gun, dot on, put a couple of targets up on a wall at different heights. Try swinging back and forth between targets while keeping the dot in the center of the lense. Remember, move (pivot) with your knees and waist, not your upper body. Your upper body should remain in the same kind of stance (your arms with your gun extended in front of you, your head directly behind the gun), so that your entire upper body moves as one unit. If you try and move the gun with your arms and shoulders, then follow with your head, you'll lose the dot every time.

[AlamoShooter]

Well I have only shot a dot sight for 19 years so, I am a bit of a beginner too. If you look through the lens to the target and keep looking through it from target to target , you will not find the speed.

You want to learn the many different ways to shoot a dot.

ON some shots I do look at a small part of the dot ( like the 12 O'Clock part) to make a long accurate shot.

on close target I only look at the target and am -aware- of the dot

on 85% of the shots and Steel Challenge I look hard at the target ( like I was 2 feet from the target) and keep my eye focus out at the 10 to35 yards the targets are set. I am just aware of the dot. Some say look through it, = that is kind of what it is like= But if you only learn that , you will be held back.

To look through it is a limit on our explanation - = It would be to look through it as though it was a smear on you windshield of your car and you are driving 85mph

Aware of the smear but not looking at the smear to see down the road = looking down the road 300 yards + and (Aware of the smear)

No one focus will carry you to potential with a dot. learn , learn learn.

The eye on steel Challenge breaks way out of the lens to the next target in transition on most of the shots.

But like they say " He doesn't know nothing" I am still practicing too

Edit = cuss I type slow, Grumpy says keep your head behind the gun, I do not do that, on a wide transiton. my eyes and head are way ahead of my hands , my hands catch up the same moment my eye locks on the target. the eye stops on the target and the dot ends up as a Comit ariving to the target. Grumpy and I may shoot diffrent , neather wrong just diffrent.

if one shoots better it does not make the other wrong. Just diffrent.

Edited June 28, 2010 by AlamoShooter

[G-ManBart]

Look at the target, where you want to hit it, and let the dot go to that spot, but don't focus on it. A helpful trick to get used to this is to cover the front of the scope glass with something (trimmed business card etc). With both eyes open you'll see both the target and the dot, but if you switch your eye focus to the dot, you'll totally lose the target (which is bad!). R,

[CiDirkona]

Awesome tips, guys -- thank you! Feel free to keep 'em coming!

[Rcurly]

Seems like suggesting that someone "look through the dot" makes it difficult to understand. I ALWAYS focus on the target and superimpose the dot on that. The dot may at first seem out of focus. As time goes on and you train your eyes to work with a "target focus" you should start to see the dot clearly. I also suggest that you work towards keeping both eyes open.

[GrumpyOne]

Look at the target, where you want to hit it, and let the dot go to that spot, but don't focus on it. A helpful trick to get used to this is to cover the front of the scope glass with something (trimmed business card etc). With both eyes open you'll see both the target and the dot, but if you switch your eye focus to the dot, you'll totally lose the target (which is bad!). R,

I'm gonna have to try that! Sounds interesting!

[Neomet]

Grumpy, it was wild the first time I covered the lens. I was positive all I ever looked at was the target. Ummmmm....... not so much it turns out. LOL!

[AlamoShooter]

Grumpy, it was wild the first time I covered the lens. I was positive all I ever looked at was the target. Ummmmm....... not so much it turns out. LOL!

The Late Great Bud Bond showed me the cover the lens trick 2003 at handguner. Bud was a good guy ,ready to help everyone

[calishootr]

for me, it has always been with a scoped gun, look atthe spot you want to to hit, rather than at the dot, like was said earlier, superimppose the dot onto what you are looking at, rather than the other way round, and with the Glock now scoped its now even more of a challenge to getthe draw/grip right, and to remember to roll the wrist out so you pick up the dot the same way every time

[joecichlid]

Practice. Practice. Practice.

+111 on this one. It will come to you with practice and time running the gun at full speed.

Joe W.

[Graham Smith]

Look at the target, where you want to hit it, and let the dot go to that spot, but don't focus on it. A helpful trick to get used to this is to cover the front of the scope glass with something (trimmed business card etc). With both eyes open you'll see both the target and the dot, but if you switch your eye focus to the dot, you'll totally lose the target (which is bad!).

Just a note, eye dominance has a lot to do with how well this works. I am right handed but left eye dominant and for this to work you have to be right eye dominant.

[BritinUSA]

Just a note, eye dominance has a lot to do with how well this works. I am right handed but left eye dominant and for this to work you have to be right eye dominant.

It's different for cross-dominant eyes. You can use the tape or you can try this.

[CiDirkona]

I setup some USPSA targets in my garage this past week and practiced with blue tape and a piece of card over the scope. I felt much more natural with the gun at Steel Workers (USPSA-ish, without cardboard, local match) this weekend. Thank you, everyone, for the awesome tips. I'll keep practicing this way for a while -- and judging by my shoot videos, I need to practice some visual patience! All of the misses I had were because I didn't let the gun come to a stop on the target, tried to get it before the gun while still moving, which wasn't working out for me. On the other hand, my transistions from target to target were much much better, as well as being able to see the dot when the gun was mounted (beforehand, I was losing it often when mounting from the draw, inspiring the 'wiggle the gun to find the dot dance.')

My runs are at 6:20 and 7:40 if anyone's interested.

I also need to learn to count my targets and hit up reloads during moving, rather than waiting for slidelock. Even though I was practicing with the OG, I was only loading to 10 per mag to force some reloads in there...

[Graham Smith]

It's different for cross-dominant eyes. You can use the tape or you can try this.

I was referring to the trick of covering the front of the red dot sight. For most people, if you are left eye dominant, this doesn't work.

As I understand it, an occluded eye sight works for right eye dominant individuals because the dominant eye sees the dot and superimposes that over the non-dominant view of the target from the left eye. A left eye dominant person, however sees the target well but has trouble integrating the non-dominant occluded dot.

The idea was popular with people shooting magnified ACOGs on rifles (close the cover to shoot near and open it to use the magnified sight to shoot distance). But for reasons I don't fully understand, the number of people for whom this works well is limited so it fell out of use.