Burning rounds

[outerlimits]

So I'm shooting a shotgun/ rifle stage-10 rounds shotgun and about 14 long range rifle. Get thru the shotgun, one for one, decide to burn the 11th round. Then, move about 15 feet, dump the now empty shotgun, grab rifle and hear " Stop"! WTF? Get d/q'd for the way I burned the lastSG round. Was told it was done unsafely. Was firing thru a port, and the birdshot went thru the port! Oh well. Can't argue a d/q.

Dont get me wrong-I accept it, but just don't agree with the call. I only burn if there's an advantage to do so and this was one. So, after doing this for many years, I won't be burning last rounds any longer-not when the method of burning is subjective.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Did the shot leave the range, break the 180, or impact any props? If not, then I fail to see an unsafe act. It shouldn't even be a penalty unless the WSB specifically prevented dumping shots. You mentioned the call is subjective, but it certainly shouldn't be in this case. I would have asked the RO to explain, in detail, how my actions were unsafe. Was RO inexperience a factor?

The fact he was so late in calling "stop" suggests he wasn't sure whether he should make the call or not. If you were able to exit a port, move 15 feet, ground a shotgun, and pick up a rifle after a supposedly DQ-able offense, then the RO simply wasn't on the ball - hence my question about RO inexperience.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Fullauto_Shooter

[Outsydlooknin75]

I agree something doesnt sound right there. Im thinking that the RO just heard the shot and might have seen that there wasnt a target left to shoot at and thought that the shot was an AD .....

You gotta wonder sometimes, and if you explain what you did then a possible reshoot?

I guess thats why when I know I have one to burn Ill burn it at the last target that is there so there are no questions.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Outsydlooknin75

[ST43130]

Very good advice to always burn a round into a target. Anything else may be open to interperation, did it strike the ground within 10ft. of the shooter, unsafe, etc.

[Corey]

got any video of the COF?

[Outsydlooknin75]

Just got done looking thru the rule book.

Dont know if multigun rules are different but according to 10.4.6 "A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets." is a reason for a Match DQ and considered an Accidental Discharge.

Now I know you said that it went thru the port and everything but according to the rule book it was a shot during movement not at a target.

[DoubleDelta]

Just got done looking thru the rule book.

Dont know if multigun rules are different but according to 10.4.6 "A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets." is a reason for a Match DQ and considered an Accidental Discharge.

Now I know you said that it went thru the port and everything but according to the rule book it was a shot during movement not at a target.

He dumped the shot and then moved, big difference. My question is why burn it to begin with? Remember I am a total multi-gun noob here.

[mscott]

Here's a copy of the rules from our local match. http://www.pcsirange.com/images/pdf/PCSI_IMA%20Rules.pdf

Look at 1.9.2

This is the first year for using IMGA rules for this club.

Edited June 5, 2010 by mscott

[Outsydlooknin75]

Just got done looking thru the rule book.

Dont know if multigun rules are different but according to 10.4.6 "A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets." is a reason for a Match DQ and considered an Accidental Discharge.

Now I know you said that it went thru the port and everything but according to the rule book it was a shot during movement not at a target.

He dumped the shot and then moved, big difference. My question is why burn it to begin with? Remember I am a total multi-gun noob here.

It never says that he dumped the round then moved, I read it as he dumped the round while moving but it still went thru the port he was supposed to be shooting thru.

But the reasoning behind burning rounds is so that when you dump a weapon it is completely unloaded and you cant be DQ'd for dumping an unsafe weapon. Some rules require you to ground an empty weapon, some rules state that you can have rounds in the magazine if the safety is on, some say you can have one in the chamber if the safety is on.

Hypothetical...... You are at a match rules say shotgun must be unloaded completely, no rounds allowed in the chamber or magazine when dumped, reguardless of safety on or not. Stage has 8 shots, you shoot them all 1 for 1, that means the last round is now in the chamber. Do you fumble with trying to eject the round and add an extra second, or do you just pull the trigger one more time and move on, adding maybe a half second to your time if that?

[Outsydlooknin75]

Here's a copy of the rules from our local match. http://www.pcsirange.com/images/pdf/PCSI_IMA%20Rules.pdf

Look at 1.9.2

This is the first year for using IMGA rules for this club.

Thats rough ..... do you only load for the number of targets and hope to go 1 for 1 or do you load over and throw a shot on the last target if you have one to burn?

[Jadeslade]

He dumped the shot and then moved, big difference. My question is why burn it to begin with? Remember I am a total multi-gun noob here.

It never says that he dumped the round then moved, I read it as he dumped the round while moving but it still went thru the port he was supposed to be shooting thru.

Yeah-he dumped it and then moved-that's what he said. Through the port. How you gonna move and shoot through the port?

I think the issue is "if you're gonna have a rule that the shotgun needs to be empty-there is no DQ for burning a round". The rules are subjective in 3Gun. Not Outerlimits first rodeo. His objection is valid and noted. Sometimes it is advantageous to burn. So just pull the trigger fast on the last target before you come off it-no chance for DQ there. Really should be able to wait a half beat and do it too (and not get a DQ)-"maybe I missed one, I thought, so I shot it again". I really would like to hear the RO on this one-what his reasoning was. The IMGA rules, which until about the last year were really only at the Superstition Mountain Mystery 3 Gun and really pertain to scoring issues and some division placement regarding calibers that is different than IPSC. The safety issues about unloading are so no one dumps a half dozen rounds into the air at grounding area or in an unsafe direction not into a berm. You know-some common sense. They are not about gotcha and nit-picking. Most 3 Gun RO's are cool and most MD are cool. Like giving the shooter an obvious hit on steel poppers when it's obvious they hit it, even if it doesn't fall. Different than straight IPSC. So the issue is also -be aware of the RO. Part of the game.

[mscott]

Here's a copy of the rules from our local match. http://www.pcsirange.com/images/pdf/PCSI_IMA%20Rules.pdf

Look at 1.9.2

This is the first year for using IMGA rules for this club.

Thats rough ..... do you only load for the number of targets and hope to go 1 for 1 or do you load over and throw a shot on the last target if you have one to burn?

I just put the gun on safe and chuck it in a barrel. The only time I could see burning ammo is maybe a transition from shot to slugs.

[Brian Payne]

Here's a copy of the rules from our local match. http://www.pcsirange.com/images/pdf/PCSI_IMA%20Rules.pdf

Look at 1.9.2

This is the first year for using IMGA rules for this club.

Thats rough ..... do you only load for the number of targets and hope to go 1 for 1 or do you load over and throw a shot on the last target if you have one to burn?

I just put the gun on safe and chuck it in a barrel. The only time I could see burning ammo is maybe a transition from shot to slugs.

Some ranges and shoots will allow to just leave your shotgun on safe while you put it in the abandon box/barrel, other shoots/ranges require an empty weapon. It is often faster to burn extra rounds into the berm rather than trying to manually eject them. This is for the cof's that require you to abandon your shotgun while you continue the cof with the other weapons.

[FN fan]

Yup, as the last posts said it all just has to do with the rules of the game.