Chrono Certification

[BlackBuzzard]

My chrono is guaranteed to have less than 1% error, or be within 1% accurate.

http://www.neconos.com/details12.htm

Do they provide written documentation of verification and validation of the <1% accuracy claim?

If so this would be a big advancement in confidence for this optical type bullet chrono.

Most likely its just a claim that they cannot scientifically validate and verify.

But if they correctly certify it as within 1% accurate by any ISO standard, then this equipment should be mandatory at major matches.

Or is it just another optical chrono with a lot of extra software and remote control?

BB

[Nik Habicht]

I was performing so poorly, that it did not matter if I was Major or Minor. My question to Bobby that day, was mostly how could this happen? I attributed it possibly to the fact that it was quite cold that previous night and probably in the 50s when tested first thing in the morning.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT RESULT. Everyone was tested across the same chrono. The testing was fair. My concern was my own - how could I depend on a legal Major load.

Mark K

I've got a compound questions: Shoot the match in one day or two? Did your chrono ammo spend the night, i.e. collected on day one, shot early on day two?

I shot two days. Ammo was collected Saturday Afternoon, and we shot the chrono about 8:30am Sunday.

BTW, I had them shoot the last bullet.

Mark

That's got me wondering about ammo storage. I'm not implying anything, I wasn't there and don't know how the collected ammo was stored overnight, but had I been there, I would have asked that question --- before the ammo was fired across the chrono....

[kgunz11]

It's suppose to be tested/verified before the unit is shipped, but I know nothing about their process.

I guess if you had a controlled velocity projectile you could launch through the screens to calibrate the chrono, that would be ideal.

[juan]

light has a known velocity

shoot a laser pulse through it,

maybe to fast

[Mark K]

Looks like a nice one there Bobby. If you could the three different chronos (yours, a CED and the SC) in tandem and post the results that would be great!

Bobby is bringing it up Saturday, and we can run a Shooting Crony, Oehler and his in Tandem (Troyka?). Should be interesting.

Mark K

[Mark K]

I was performing so poorly, that it did not matter if I was Major or Minor. My question to Bobby that day, was mostly how could this happen? I attributed it possibly to the fact that it was quite cold that previous night and probably in the 50s when tested first thing in the morning.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT RESULT. Everyone was tested across the same chrono. The testing was fair. My concern was my own - how could I depend on a legal Major load.

Mark K

I've got a compound questions: Shoot the match in one day or two? Did your chrono ammo spend the night, i.e. collected on day one, shot early on day two?

I shot two days. Ammo was collected Saturday Afternoon, and we shot the chrono about 8:30am Sunday.

BTW, I had them shoot the last bullet.

Mark

That's got me wondering about ammo storage. I'm not implying anything, I wasn't there and don't know how the collected ammo was stored overnight, but had I been there, I would have asked that question --- before the ammo was fired across the chrono....

This ammo/load has never even been close, last year's A-6, AL, etc, So I did not even think to question.

I am not one to question a R.O.'s call, and I figure everyone knows what they are doing a hell of a lot more that I do, so I take what is given. I just don't want it to happen again, so I am listening here.

Mark

[Nik Habicht]

Mark,

I understand your attitude -- and commend you for it. I seem to vaguely remember something from Nationals a few year ago (Tulsa '06?) where ammo storage overnight/early chrono may have played a factor in someone minoring or sub-minoring.....

[G-ManBart]

I've run an SC and CED in tandem and the CED was consistently 10-12fps slower. I think we shot three or four different guns over that combo and the difference stayed the same....two Open guns and one or two Limited guns.

I would think that a CO2 air gun might provide the most consistent velocity for calibration, but that's just a guess. R,

[Schutzenmeister]

Gentlemen ...

There are many factors which can affect the readings your chrono gives you. I'm not the "annointed expert" on the subject, but I have read several articles put together by Greg Lent. If anyone knows chronos, it's Greg!

I suggest you go through some old copies of Front Sight to find some of the information he's previously published. You may find some interesting information on the subject there. (Sorry, I don't keep mine around. If I did, I would look it up and tell you which issue(s) to look in!)

[G-ManBart]

Gentlemen ...

There are many factors which can affect the readings your chrono gives you. I'm not the "annointed expert" on the subject, but I have read several articles put together by Greg Lent. If anyone knows chronos, it's Greg!

I suggest you go through some old copies of Front Sight to find some of the information he's previously published. You may find some interesting information on the subject there. (Sorry, I don't keep mine around. If I did, I would look it up and tell you which issue(s) to look in!)

I've read most, if not all, of those articles. Honestly, I think there's more detail provided here than in the articles (only so much you can say in two pages). R,

[kgunz11]

The guns used by the Olympic teams, are they CO2 or a pneumatic break open?

[calishootr]

a few months ago i gotto watch the testing process ofthe new chrono's from the boys at RCBS (i live a few miles fromthem) and they had basically 10 units set up in one big line, firing a known caliber at a known velocity and take measurements from each ofthe 10 units...

[juan]

shoot bearing from a spinning wheel,like a pitching machine

[Skydiver]

shoot bearing from a spinning wheel,like a pitching machine

Great suggestion! If the wheel has a known diameter, linear velocity at the circumference will be known. Need some way to verify that the spin rate is consistent. Some kind of pattern printed on the side of the wheel so that a strobe can be used to verify spin rate?

[G-ManBart]

The guns used by the Olympic teams, are they CO2 or a pneumatic break open?

I'm sure someone else knows tons more about this than I do, but I think they're using a cylinder that you charge every X # of shots and it has a meter to measure available pressure. R,

[Rob Boudrie]

That is an excellent plan. My advice would be to always shoot the last bullet, if you are close. I have never, repeat never, seen anyone make it on the weight. And that is from nearly 20 years of experience at multiple major matches each year.

That depends on the weight relative to what is expected. If you get a weight that is way out of spec you might want a re-weigh. I went minor at a match in Canada, eh? (under a procedure with no re-weigh) when a 200gr cast lead 45 came in at 192gr. Other people were getting the weight they expected - so I assume there was some sort of bubble in the casting.

If you keep a $5 calculator in your shooting bag, you can quickly calculate what weight or velocity you need to make major with the extra round and rule out the one that is less likely to happen.

[mhs]

The guns used by the Olympic teams, are they CO2 or a pneumatic break open?

I'm sure someone else knows tons more about this than I do, but I think they're using a cylinder that you charge every X # of shots and it has a meter to measure available pressure. R,

CO2 varies with temp. A good pre-charge pneumatic (PCP), which uses a high-pressure air cylinder, is extremely consistent. This technology, with a regulator, is the overwhelming choice of Olympic airgun shooters. The last one I had that I chronoed extensively was consistent within 2 fps over several days and a roughly 30 degree temperature spread.

[Mark K]

The guns used by the Olympic teams, are they CO2 or a pneumatic break open?

I'm sure someone else knows tons more about this than I do, but I think they're using a cylinder that you charge every X # of shots and it has a meter to measure available pressure. R,

Compressed Air these days.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Feinwerkbau_700_Aluminum_Blue/1030

Mark

[Xfactor]

I have and use a CED M2 chrono and have noticed about a 50fps drop when I use the light box vs. ambient light. The difference in my MG121 IFP in my Bedell 38SC shorty is consistently a change from 172 to 166 PF.

I've had similar results with my Shooting Chrony. One partly cloudy day I tried the same load without the sky screens, with the sky screens, and with an IPSC target laying over top of the sky screens (brown side down). The darker it got, the slower the results.

I'd be very interested to see how the Oehler, the CED M2, and the Shooting Chrony compare to Bobby's super chrony in normal outdoor/ambient light conditions.

[Mark K]

When I test, if it is a uniformly overcast day (not dark), then I just use the normal sky shields, if it is sunny, I attach a target on top of the shy shields, white side down, and make sure the the detectors are in the shadow.

Mark

[G-ManBart]

The guns used by the Olympic teams, are they CO2 or a pneumatic break open?

I'm sure someone else knows tons more about this than I do, but I think they're using a cylinder that you charge every X # of shots and it has a meter to measure available pressure. R,

CO2 varies with temp. A good pre-charge pneumatic (PCP), which uses a high-pressure air cylinder, is extremely consistent. This technology, with a regulator, is the overwhelming choice of Olympic airgun shooters. The last one I had that I chronoed extensively was consistent within 2 fps over several days and a roughly 30 degree temperature spread.

Yeah, I'd seen the PCP setups, but didn't know it was air instead of CO2. I figured with the tiny, tiny, tiny bull on air rifle targets they had to be incredibly consistent as far as velocity. I'm almost surprised that nobody has tried nitrogen which is even more temp neutral than air. Either way, I think they'd be about the best projectile device around for calibrating chronos. R,

[G-ManBart]

Compressed Air these days.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Feinwerkbau_700_Aluminum_Blue/1030

Mark

Great...now I want one

Edited April 30, 2010 by G-ManBart

[mhs]

The guns used by the Olympic teams, are they CO2 or a pneumatic break open?

I'm sure someone else knows tons more about this than I do, but I think they're using a cylinder that you charge every X # of shots and it has a meter to measure available pressure. R,

CO2 varies with temp. A good pre-charge pneumatic (PCP), which uses a high-pressure air cylinder, is extremely consistent. This technology, with a regulator, is the overwhelming choice of Olympic airgun shooters. The last one I had that I chronoed extensively was consistent within 2 fps over several days and a roughly 30 degree temperature spread.

Yeah, I'd seen the PCP setups, but didn't know it was air instead of CO2. I figured with the tiny, tiny, tiny bull on air rifle targets they had to be incredibly consistent as far as velocity. I'm almost surprised that nobody has tried nitrogen which is even more temp neutral than air. Either way, I think they'd be about the best projectile device around for calibrating chronos. R,

If you look at the airgun forums some of the guys have been playing with nitrogen and other gasses. I don't remember the results, but I think the changes in consistency weren't significant. The regs on the better guns are very good. I think I remember seeing that some gasses gave higher velocity for the same pressure.

[Mark K]

The guns used by the Olympic teams, are they CO2 or a pneumatic break open?

I'm sure someone else knows tons more about this than I do, but I think they're using a cylinder that you charge every X # of shots and it has a meter to measure available pressure. R,

CO2 varies with temp. A good pre-charge pneumatic (PCP), which uses a high-pressure air cylinder, is extremely consistent. This technology, with a regulator, is the overwhelming choice of Olympic airgun shooters. The last one I had that I chronoed extensively was consistent within 2 fps over several days and a roughly 30 degree temperature spread.

Yeah, I'd seen the PCP setups, but didn't know it was air instead of CO2. I figured with the tiny, tiny, tiny bull on air rifle targets they had to be incredibly consistent as far as velocity. I'm almost surprised that nobody has tried nitrogen which is even more temp neutral than air. Either way, I think they'd be about the best projectile device around for calibrating chronos. R,

If you look at the airgun forums some of the guys have been playing with nitrogen and other gasses. I don't remember the results, but I think the changes in consistency weren't significant. The regs on the better guns are very good. I think I remember seeing that some gasses gave higher velocity for the same pressure.

yeah, when I stopped International Shooting in '95 the single pump Air Guns were still the majority of guns, but compressed gas was on the rise. CO2 was first, but eventually that move went to Air because of the ease of access. Kind tough to get CO2 (or nitrogen) cylinders filled when you shoot a World Cup Match in Havana, Cuba.

mark

[BMartens]

Trip to major match/entry fee/travel/hotel/ammo/food ~ +/- $1000

Custom Open gun/mags/rig ~ +/- $5000

Custom Olympic grade air pistol/accessories for chrono calibration ~ +/- $2500

Chrono ~ $199.95

Back up chrono [optional] - $119.95

Look on shooters face after 7 shots and PF hits 164.9 – PRICELESS