.223, Varget & AR-15's

[Religious Shooter]

At what range did you shoot the groups and how many groups?

[blkbrd]

I have completely given up on 69's. Really don't see a need for them anymore as 52-55 gr. pills work great inside 300 yards, and for beyond the 77's fly better for me and hit much harder.

Varget is a great heavy bullet powder, but has had some lot variations in the past couple of years, still use it for heavy 308's though. I fell in love with Ramshot X-Terminator for 55gr. bullets, meters like water and is clean.

Look at powder volume and neck tension, many dies squeeze the snot out of necks in both directions and have way to much neck tension for great accuracy.

Also polish your seating die neck.

[D.carden]

I got that 'ring' using the Dillon die. After switching to the Redding Comp die it's less noticeable......

Also, the 68's are longer than the 69's. If you take a sewing needle and insert it into the hollow point, it will go in about 3/8" on the 68's, but only an 1/8" on the 69's. The seat die is probably making contact (or very close) to the spot where it is still hollow.

[sierra77mk]

I've read thru the other replies but I did not see any reference to your case trim to length.

My load is:

25 Varget

Rem 7.5 primer

WCC GI or LC Cases

Hornady dies.

Trim To length of 1.750

OAL loaded length of 2.255

NO crimp.

Now with this length I have about .025-.030 of the cannelure visible above the case mouth.

You state you are loading at 2.262 but your photo shows no cannelure. Does hornady make a non-cannelured 68?

I suspect your necks are too long.

If you are trimming are you chamfering or VLD'ing the mouths?

That makes a big difference on pressure required to push a bullet in the case.

Maybe the seating die should be backed off a bit. Who's seating die are you using?

Is your seating die capable of crimping?

Maybe the die is beginning to crimp before the bullet is seated and you have a few thousandths where the case neck, seater stem and seater crimp profile are working against each other. That would put rings on your bullets.

[rr4406pak]

I've read thru the other replies but I did not see any reference to your case trim to length.

>My trim to length I try to keep right at 1.75.

Now with this length I have about .025-.030 of the cannelure visible above the case mouth.

You state you are loading at 2.262 but your photo shows no cannelure. Does Hornady make a non-cannelured 68?

>The 68gr Hornady bullets I have do not have a cannelure.

I suspect your necks are too long.

If you are trimming are you chamfering or VLD'ing the mouths?

>I'm lightly chamfering the case mouths inside and out using a RCBS hand deburring tool.

I tested seating the bullet in a case with no powder and did not get any ring.

That makes a big difference on pressure required to push a bullet in the case.

Maybe the seating die should be backed off a bit. Who's seating die are you using?

>I'm using a Dillon seating die.

Is your seating die capable of crimping?

>No.

I use a Lee Factory Crimp die which crimps in a separate process from the seater.

Maybe the die is beginning to crimp before the bullet is seated and you have a few thousandths where the case neck, seater stem and seater crimp profile are working against each other. That would put rings on your bullets.

>Thanks for the help!

[rr4406pak]

I got a hold of some 69gr Sierra BTHP Match bullets and loaded those up with 25gr of Varget.

Wow! BIG difference. No rings at all on the bullet and they seated MUCH easier.

Not exactly sure why they load so much easier but they do.

Thank you Sierra!

[Mike Morcillo]

I load my 68gr HPBT on a Dillon 550, using Varget. I polished the drop tube to a mirror finish. Now the powder drops cleanly into the case.

The ring at the case head could be a pressure ring indicating a near case head seperation. The load could be so hot that it is thrusting the brass back into the bolt face at ignition, stretching the case. I'd check your cases to see if they were resized too short.

You can check the inside of the case that have rings with a paper clip bent 90 degrees, sharpen the small end, run it into the case and see if you can feel a dent in the case where the ring is.

[goat68]

The Hornady 68 gr BTHP are longer than the Sierra 69 gr MK. Stand them up side by side and you will see. The longer bullet is pushing on powder more than the Sierras. The 69 gr shot better out of my AR so I went with that one this year over 25.3 gr Varget. I get a small crunch sound as some powder is crushed but no ring. With the 68 gr Hornady I get a bit more crunch sound and the same ring you got.

[rr4406pak]

Good observation goat68!

That explains it.

[moses11]

I just loaded up some of the Hornady 68 gr bullets and I am getting the ring too.

The ring is not where the bullet contacts the edge of the seater but actually about 1/16 of an inch inside the seater. There is nothing inside the seater to cause this, it is as smooth as a babies bottom.

Looking at the bullet it seems this is where the lead starts/stops inside the copper jacket.

So the ring is cause because the copper jacket is getting crushed because it is hollow at that point.

I have no ring on 55 gr, 69 gr, 75 gr or 77 gr bullets that I load with the same setup.

[Mike Morcillo]

I had the same problem. RCBS made me a new seater stem using the 68gr bullet as a template. You can make your own by using the original stem, put a drop of epoxy in the seater, let it set up so that it's tacky, push your 68gr bullet into the glue to make a new pattern that matches your bullet. Lots cheaper. I worried that the original stem would collapse the hollow point core, so this change gave me peace of mind. No ring.

[Aaron M]

The ring does not hurt accuracy and you see it in a lot of bullets. it is caused by the stem in your seater and that is all. it hurts the looks of the bullets, not the accuracy.