n2299 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Is anyone familiar with the Fiocchi (GFL headstamp) brass? I have been offer some once fired Fiocchi .40 brass at a decent price. Are they good brass for reloading major(175pf) loads? Should I just stick with my normal Winchester and Remington R-P brass? TIA Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 GFL headstamp is just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Nick, Fiocchi is the major manufacturer of reloading goodies and and complete cartridges here in Italy. We almost all use their brass (9mm, .40, .45, .38, etc.) because they are cheaper than imported U.S. ones. I have been reloading Fiocchi brass along with Winchester, Federal, Remington, Brazilian brass (CBC headstamp), Philipino brass (ACP Headstamp), Sellier & Bellot, and, you name it, I reloaded it: IME (in my experience), they are quite good quality brass, at least they can stand a comparison with most used U.S. made ones. As per thickness, they are quite a bit thicker than Winchester and definitely thicker than Remington: you'll feel it when the brass goes under the resizing die or the FCD one (I am usually able to tell which brass is in the resizing station by the effort I have to put on the lever); this is not a totally good or bad thing, because you have that extra thickness for safety, but it'll require a bigger pushing effort on the press lever. The only major drawback I experienced with this brass is that, after a lot of abuse (I mean >10/12 reloading of the same brass at full >175 PF), the brass bottom starts to get flattened, and the primer pocket edges become very sharp: it can sometimes lead to difficulty in seating the primer correctly, or even side-seated primers. Whenever you feel this happening, you can pick up the faulty brass and ream its primer pocket to chamfer it a bit. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I'll second Skywalker on this. I've used and I'm still using Fiocchi brass for years, it's good material. I also like their 170 FMJ bullets for 40sw, very accurate in my pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2299 Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Thanks everyone for your replies. I think I'll pick up 5k to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 My experience with GFL brass is very different that the other posters. I would never ever use it. I have had several guns in my shop with blown up cases and everyone has been with GFL brass. An inside source tells me that even Fiocchi says that GFL brass is good for one reload max. Get some more info before you spend your money. Fiocch also has brass with their name on the headstamp that is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2299 Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Ross.. that's interesting. Maybe I should just use them for "plinking" loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 The way ShooterGrrl's #1 fan swore up and down about how bad it was (case seps) I avoid it. I have still loaded several without incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I have had several guns in my shop with blown up cases and everyone has been with GFL brass. Ross, could you point out the calibers of the brass that suffered blown up cases? I'm interested in it because I feel that the actual .40"SW brass is thicker that other U.S. made brass, so it sounds quite strange to me. OTOH, I don't have experience with Fiocchi brass other than 9mm, .40" and .45". Fiocch also has brass with their name on the headstamp that is much better. BTW, since I never saw anything else than GFL headstamp (which stands for Giulio Fiocchi Lecco), could tell us more about what kind of other Fiocchi brass are you referring to? Anyway, during the weekend I'll try to cut in half several different brands cases (once-fired) and measure the thickness in various points, to find out which are the most tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I've seen .357mag and .45ACP cases with GFL headstamps, but the one box of 9mm Fiocchi I bought off the shelf said "FIOCCHI USA". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I don't have experience with Fiochi brass in .40sw but I have been reloading their .45 cases for quite a few years without a single split neck or seperated head. Years ago I received 20K .45acp cases most of which are the GFL headstamp and they have been excellent. Some small amount of these are marked FIOCCHI USA. I find it very hard to believe that any manufacturer would send out cases only suitable for ONE loading and don't put a warning on the box like CCI does with Blazer ammo. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 one box of 9mm Fiocchi I bought off the shelf said "FIOCCHI USA". Now I understan why I've never seen such headstamps: they are manufactured by Fiocchi USA subsidiary and it is highly unlikely they are re-imported in Italy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I don't know for .40S&W, but I reload .357M with Fiocchi cases just fine. I really like Fiocchi (for various calibers), both as factory ammo and after that, as to-be-reloaded brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 The blown up cases I've had were GFL headstamped 40 S&W. I have very little if any experience with other calibers. I assure you I've seen enough to never use GFL brass especially for major loads. There's lots of good cheap brass out there that has no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 I don't have any documentation or what-have-you but my long-time impression is that GFL brass usually sucks. Course, I'm picky about components, rarely change anything once it works (from long experience) and rarely have more than 2 brands of brass in any caliber. Saving money is not such a priority for me anymore. Don't be afraid to involve the garbage can in your sorting & quality control & you'll be happier in the long run. Haven't had an ammo problem at any match since about 1998. FWIW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 I don't have any documentation or what-have-you but my long-time impression is that GFL brass usually sucks. Caspian, hope you won't take it personally, but for the thread's interest, if you state the above, everybody would be interested in knowing what is your experience that led you to the conclusion you posted (e.g. Ross Carter posted his experience, and even if I might disagree with him, I'll take note he had that experience), instead of something like "believe me, because I say it". Again, hope you won't take this personally, it is in the interest of sharing more information on the topic subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Ok, no prob. Split cases. Primer pockets too loose. Primer pockets too tight. Didn't crimp the same as other brands/ shorter case length with equal firings. Soft brass/ headstamp vanishing after 2-3 firings. Other than that... PS - I've never had a case separation with any brand. Never shot the fastest of whatever powders were fashionable. Always the 2nd or 3rd fastest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Ok, no prob.Split cases. Primer pockets too loose. Primer pockets too tight. Didn't crimp the same as other brands/ shorter case length with equal firings. Soft brass/ headstamp vanishing after 2-3 firings. Other than that... PS - I've never had a case separation with any brand. Never shot the fastest of whatever powders were fashionable. Always the 2nd or 3rd fastest. That clarifies the problems, thanks. Split cases: if you mean a crack from the case mouth expanding downwards (i.e. towards the brass bottom), I have experienced them in brass I have reloaded for at least one full year, but I think this is quite normal, as this happens with other brands too (at least to me); moreover, cracking of the case mouth is greatly related to the amount of case flaring a reloader applies to the loading of the brass: the more you flare the case mouth, the more you stress the thinnest part of the brass, that will eventually become brittle. Primer pockets too loose or too tight: could you go deeper in details, telling us how many times (approx) were the faulty brass reloaded? I ask this because I have reloaded the same brass for at least 10/12 times, and the only problem I encountered is the flattening of the bottom, that led to the sharpening of the primer pocket edges. I normally load with Nitrokemia Rex 32 (similar to Vihtavuori N340 as burning rate) @ 175 PF. Shorter case lenght with equal firings: I agree this can happen, since I just finished cutting and measuring some .40" brass (Fiocchi, Winchester, Remington, Federal nickel-plated, CBC - Brazilian - and ACP - Philippino -) and I found the Fiocchi walls to be a little thicker (I will post a detailed report here by this evening), thus it is highly probable that this brass will stretch less than others upon firing. Anyway, if you are really concerned about having the same crimping applied to each bullet, you should follow the advice given by most of the reloaders in these forums: sort cases by lenght, or at least by brand. I don't, since I don't care very much for this when loading practice rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 OK, it took me quite a while because I had other stuff to do during the weekend (and didn't even have time to shoot ), but in the end I can post some data. Please keep in mind that this is not a statistical survey: I just sliced one sample per brand, and the measurements are to be taken with a bit of tolerance around the listed value, due to possible errors on my side, as well as varying thickness. Federal Brass was nickel plated (n.p.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Waouw, Skywalker, Nice drawing Useful datas ! Nice to see the brass I use the most are in the good average (ACP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I too have used the ACP .40" brass for quite a while, since they are very cheap; I quit using them after one year because I found that, with my reloads, I was getting some split case mouths after 2/3 reloads only, that was quite early compared to other brands reported in the above test. Actually I really don't care about brass: I have bought once fired brass (mixed brands usually) from various suppliers, and I am very satisfied with them. I store some once fired brass for matches, and use the remaining for training. No malfunctions or FTF since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 All the ACP I have for practice were reloaded around 10 times (at least) and I rarely experienced split cases, maybe 4 or 5 times on 2000+ cases. Maybe I was lucky with them Otherwise, I always load match ammo with new brass (ACP or Sellier et Bellot) and always gauge them. Sometimes even a new brass won't fit the gauge (1/500 or 600 rds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 When I started shooting IPSC in 1998, shooters had problem with GFL .40 S&W brass split and separate. But the brass that has been available since has worked just fine. I think the problem brass had GFL written in a small font on the case head. But the good brass came with GFL writtten in a larger font. even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Even, you may be right, since I heard this story here in Italy too from elder shooters. I actually have and use GFL brass with both headstamps (small and large fonts), but didn't have any case separation problem up to now (and I'm touching iron while stating this... ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 sky/julien/even: our local reloading supplier has fiocchi 170 gr fmj and armscor 180 gr fmj in stock but the fiocchi fmj's weight is more consistent than the armscor heads. do you guys have reloading data using VV n320 and n340 for the fiocchi 170gr fmj's for PF 172-174? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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