5 Station Die set-up recommendation

[jeffbird]

I am about to start using a Hornady LNL for 45 ACP. Currently I have Redding dies for my single stage. The seater and taper crimp are separate dies.

What is the best way to set-up the five stations? My initial impression is that I would like to use a lock-out die also, but then I do not have enough stations.

Stated differently, without a lock-out die, the five steps would be:

1. size and decap;

2. expand;

3. powder charge;

4. seat bullet; and,

5. taper crimp.

Is adding a lock-out die really needed and good practice, or just go with a visual check? If I want to add it, what should I change or combine to make room?

Thank you.

Jeff

[The_Vigilante]

Why would you need a die for expansion and a die for powder charge? Normally one die will work for both functions!

[jeffbird]

The Hornady powder thrower does not appear to expand the case, unless I am missing something???

[The_Vigilante]

The Lee Die does both.

[SLM]

The Lee Die does both.

Are you using a Hornady L-N-L? Lots of people on lots of forums would be greatly interested in how you got a Lee powder through expander to work with a Hornady case activated powder drop...

Back to the OP... What type of bullets are you loading? Lead or moly coated require the use of an expander die. When I load Montana Gold I do not expand. I want all the case neck tension I can get and expanding totally defeats that, especially if you use a EGW "U" die.

Powder cop / lock out dies are of no use in my opinion. Good visual attention to detail, zero distractions when you load (no radio, phone, pets, kids, etc) and as I already said, pay attention! One of the great advantages of the case activated powder drop on the Hornady is it won't spill powder if you don't have a case in and if you do it will activate. Could you still have a no powder situation? Yes but it isn't easy. You'd either have to let the powder hopper go empty or have the powder bridge in the measure and not come out. With most if not all common pistol powders that isn't likely to happen. Notice I didn't say can't/won't. It could so that's why you visually inspect every single case for powder before you seat a bullet.

I've loaded over 10K rounds on my L-N-L and have never had a case without powder. That's not to say it can't happen so I watch every single round before I seat a bullet. To that end your die set up looks perfectly fine. I run:

1. Redding deprime/resize

2. Lee "U" die

3. Powder drop

4. bullet seat

5. crimp

I added a case feeder last year for my birthday and without any rushing or trying 600+ rounds from start to finish (from filling primer tubes to cleaning up when I'm done) are done in less than an hour.

Enjoy your press!

[jeffbird]

SLM, thank you for the very helpful information.

I am using Hornady 200 gr. XTP's with TiteGroup.

I'm liking the looks of the LNL.

Sure will be nice not to have to spend time grinding on the Rockchucker for pistol ammo.

Edited February 21, 2010 by jeffbird

[The_Vigilante]

I am using a Lee Powder drop on my LNL, not a Hornady Powder drop. The Lee powder drop is also case-activated. Anyway I agree with SML that attention to detail will negate the use of a lock-out die.

Edited February 21, 2010 by The_Vigilante

[jeffbird]

Thank you.

[Jman]

Just in case, here's a very helpful video series for the LNL AP.

http://ultimatereloader.com/?p=453

Enjoy

Jim

[SLM]

I am using a Lee Powder drop on my LNL, not a Hornady Powder drop. The Lee powder drop is also case-activated. Anyway I agree with SML that attention to detail will negate the use of a lock-out die.

Ah, ok. That I've heard of. You're using the Auto Disk with the riser, yes? How's it working out for you? Seem to be mixed results for various reasons...

I'm always interested in new and better ideas. I did customize a Hornady powder through expander to get it usable for lead/moly but it wasn't really the effect I was after so I went back to using a normal expander/flaring die on the extremely rare occasions I load something other than jacketed.

Jeffbird, I think you'll be more than happy with the Hornady for pistol ammo. I spent time with a Lee hand press and then a Lee single stage before I got a place to set my Hornady up. It's now hours to load thousands instead of days and days to load hundreds!

[The_Vigilante]

I like the Lee discs because I get the same powder throw every time. It also frees up a station for me on the press.

[Alwaystryin]

Hornady makes powder through expander dies for the powder measure. Why would you want to use the less precise lee system when you have a LnL.

The lnl powder expander is 10.00.

I wouldnt run the press without the lockout die its saved me before. It not only locks when a charge is missing but when its under charged as well.

Your eye can easily see if a charge is missing , but will you see a charge of clays thats .5 less?

[Jman]

Hornady makes powder through expander dies for the powder measure. Why would you want to use the less precise lee system when you have a LnL.

The lnl powder expander is 10.00.

I wouldnt run the press without the lockout die its saved me before. It not only locks when a charge is missing but when its under charged as well.

Your eye can easily see if a charge is missing , but will you see a charge of clays thats .5 less?

Curious. Does the Hornady powder through expanders work for .356 and .401 bullet widths? Or, just .355 and .400?

Jim

[Alwaystryin]

I use the .357 expander die to load .356 bullets and it works perfect. For 2010 they have expanders for lead bullets that are ,according to the tech support guy, 1 or 2 thousands larger. He didnt have one to measure yet.

Hornady makes powder through expander dies for the powder measure. Why would you want to use the less precise lee system when you have a LnL.

The lnl powder expander is 10.00.

I wouldnt run the press without the lockout die its saved me before. It not only locks when a charge is missing but when its under charged as well.

Your eye can easily see if a charge is missing , but will you see a charge of clays thats .5 less?

Curious. Does the Hornady powder through expanders work for .356 and .401 bullet widths? Or, just .355 and .400?

Jim

[BigBore56]

I am about to start using a Hornady LNL for 45 ACP. Currently I have Redding dies for my single stage. The seater and taper crimp are separate dies.

What is the best way to set-up the five stations? My initial impression is that I would like to use a lock-out die also, but then I do not have enough stations.

Stated differently, without a lock-out die, the five steps would be:

1. size and decap;

2. expand;

3. powder charge;

4. seat bullet; and,

5. taper crimp.

Is adding a lock-out die really needed and good practice, or just go with a visual check? If I want to add it, what should I change or combine to make room?

Thank you.

Jeff

I just loaded 600 rounds of 9mm thru mine. I have it set up exactly like above. I also use RCBS dies with a separate RCBS crimp die. I don't use a lock out die or Hornady Powder Cop, as it is so easy to visually inspect my case before setting on a bullet. I use 6.0 gr Power Pistol, and it is about 3/8" below the case rim. I might consider a powder cop if I were using Clays or very small charges (where I could not see it as well).

I know they make the L-N-L expander that goes on the powder measure, but it flexes the powder measure quite a bit when it has to also do expanding.

[Jman]

I use the .357 expander die to load .356 bullets and it works perfect. For 2010 they have expanders for lead bullets that are ,according to the tech support guy, 1 or 2 thousands larger. He didnt have one to measure yet.

Cool. Thanks.

[jeffbird]

Here's the followup - What a sweet machine. This REALLY speeds things up and produces nice quality ammo. Runout is .002 or less on every round. Set-up was very easy.

Ran a test batch of 50, going very slowly and checking the powder charges for the first 20. The powder thrower is very consistent, well within 0.1 gr.

The only glitch in set-up was that I put the press on the bench, marked the holes, drilled, and mounted it. Then I remembered I needed to mount the base plate for the case feeder. The base plate requires mounting closer to the edge of the bench than just the press alone. So, that required another round of marking and drilling, as well as another trip to the store for longer bolts.

The youtube video really explains everything very clearly - except for mounting the base plate for the case feeder. I noticed in the video, they had drilled two sets of holes also. After that, set-up was very straightforward and the die bushings are wonderful.

Finally, the ammo shot well, feeding and ejection were 100%, and there were no fliers.

Bottom line, I am very happy and the money was very well spent. Definitely would recommend the Hornady press.

Thanks for the input and encouragement guys.

Jeff

Edited February 22, 2010 by jeffbird

[smallshot13]

I have an LNL, and I run it set up like this with Lee 4 die sets in 9mm, 38/357 and .45:

1. Size

2. Hornady Powder drop with expander insert

3. Lee powder through expander (see explanation below)

4. Bullet Seat

5. Taper Crimp (except for 38/357)

The powder through expander in position 3 has a wood dowel placed in it with a rubber O ring that I use as a powder cop die. It works great, plus I can set a little more case belling as I need it for changing bullet OD. Been using it this way for a year now, and never a problem. Oh, I also have a rubber band tensioner running from the powder drop to the sizer/decapper to keep the powder drop from rotating counter clockwise and losening up. I love the LNL, but it is the only progressive I have used.

[Shooter32]

Ok let me see if i have this right , as i am going to order a new Hornady L-N-L next week and i am going to use redding dies . For loading 9mm i do not need to use an expander die? I will only be using jacketed bullets .

[BigBore56]

I tried not using the expander die and my bullets went in the cases TOO tight. I ended up buckling some cases and ruining them. It's also harder to keep a bullet in the case straight if you don't put a slight bell in the neck. Put the expander die back in, set to bell case just slightly, and loaded the next 600 rounds without a glitch.

Note: I use RCBS Carbine dies (set of 3) with a forth RCBS die for crimping. This has worked great for me. The RCBS dies may size cases a little tighter than other manufacturers dies, which is why I can't get by without expanding. I had the same experience with my RCBS dies in .40 S&W.

[Ken8521]

Ok let me see if i have this right , as i am going to order a new Hornady L-N-L next week and i am going to use redding dies . For loading 9mm i do not need to use an expander die? I will only be using jacketed bullets .

I've heard of some people doing it, but I don't see how its possible. It's just way to tight, and I spend more time trying to force a bullet in the unexpanded case, or end up screwing up my cases, etc.

YMMV, and probably will.

[BigBore56]

My setup w/4 dies. I just built the swivel handle and the round counter, and plan to "invent" a low primer alarm this weekend. I really enjoy reloading on this machine, as it runs like a clock.

[millisec]

I am ordering an AP and like the original poster it would be nice to run some sort of powder checker. I have pretty much given up on the idea, for now, for several reasons.

I want to use the LNL powder setup but pretty much every comment I have seen about the Hornady powder through expander says it is crap and does not expand near enough. I won't load any lead (just plated or jacketed 9/45 for my bottom feeders) so the new expander for lead is of no use and I have not seen any sign the problem has ever been fixed. And of course I want to be able to seat and crimp in separate stations.

Paying constant attention is often easier said than done and a backup system would be nice. Until all the issues I saw with the Hornady expander I was going to use a lock out die for that purpose.

Also using Redding 9mm dies

1. size and decap

2. expand

3. powder charge

4. seat bullet

5. taper crimp

[Ken8521]

I am ordering an AP and like the original poster it would be nice to run some sort of powder checker. I have pretty much given up on the idea, for now, for several reasons.

I want to use the LNL powder setup but pretty much every comment I have seen about the Hornady powder through expander says it is crap and does not expand near enough. I won't load any lead (just plated or jacketed 9/45 for my bottom feeders) so the new expander for lead is of no use and I have not seen any sign the problem has ever been fixed. And of course I want to be able to seat and crimp in separate stations.

Paying constant attention is often easier said than done and a backup system would be nice. Until all the issues I saw with the Hornady expander I was going to use a lock out die for that purpose.

Also using Redding 9mm dies

1. size and decap

2. expand

3. powder charge

4. seat bullet

5. taper crimp

http://www.powderfunnels.com

I've never used it(don't own an LNL yet) but it gets a lot of good reviews.

[TruSight]

Here is my solution for Hornady L-N-L AP 5 station setup for 9x19:

1st. Resize and decap (Hornady)

2st. PTX and Hornady powder charge (PTX from Powderfunnels.com)

3st. Powder Check Die (Dillon)

4st. Bullet seating (Hornady)

5st. Crimp (LEE Factory Crimp Die)

As many times prowed - Hornady PTX doesn't work.

So I've tried PTX from Powderfunnels.com and it works perfectly, with easy setup process.

You can easily adjust case mouth expanding as much as you need.

Dillon Powder Check Die is probably the best thing on the market to monitor powder charges.

Needs little fitting job to work on L-N-L, but it is not that hard if you have Dremel at hand.

Also Dillon Primer Early Warning is attached, works great.

This set-up works flawlessly for me, hope this will help for someone else.

Best regards,

Erik