straightshooter1

Ross is right about TS.com. There is some really good information on there and some really stupid, juvenile stuff initiated or hijacked by trolls. Nonetheless, it is one of my favorite sites. Bob

Triggers is another difference. The less expensive (OK, cheap) shotguns have rough triggers and you won't do your best, at least with clays, using them. On Stoegers, for example, there is a case hardening which, when a gunsmith tries to smooth the triggers, turns out to be a very thin coating, and the steel beneath is so soft, the trigger job will not hold. The operation of the gun, in opening and closing, is more difficult (rougher) with the cheap guns. Most all new guns are stiff, but not rough like the Stoegers, and to some extent, the Mossbergs I have seen. Extractors are slooooooow, but ejectors can be used like extractors simply by placing your had over the fired shell(s) and letting them pop out into your hand. Used Citoris are pretty easy to find and CDNN has Cynergys on close-out. I have a 26" and a 28" Cynergy and love them both. Don't buy some cheap gun, rather look for the used Citori, Cynergy or Winchester 101. For $800 +/- you can have a nice gun for the field or clay sports. Bob

Wow! I never expected to see so many negative opinions of porting. I have a 425 Browning with ported barrels and lengthened forcing cones and it is a pleasure to shoot with reasonable loads. Stick a 1 1/8 oz in it and it still kicks the snot out of me. OTOH, two friends have Cynergys in 12ga and there is a noticable difference in the recoil, much less feel to the "kick" with them. One is ported, one is not. The ported one seems to demonstrate felt recoil slightly less IMO. I have 20 and 28 Cynergy models and, of course, they are light recoiling and very fast to the next target in skeet, 5Stand or SC. Neither are ported. My old trap gun, a Browning Citori ( very early model) is ported, forcing cones lengthened and has a Soft Touch recoil system. It recoils like my 28. Even with Handicap loads it is like a 20. Most everyone "seems" to have a ported gun in trap, especially for doubles. Nitro 27s in Handicap will really set you back on your heels and I think the porting will help. All that being said, IMO, the most important thing to do to your gun to reduce felt recoil is to make sure it fits. I have shot BT-99s with heavy loads and no porting, no nothing, yet they shot "soft" when the fit was right (not to mention breaking more targets). I used a friend's Perazzi for practice doubles and it fit so well, I did not even notice the recoil. Can't recall if it was ported or not, but I think it was. I have two 1100s, one ported and one not. I can tell the difference in shooting them, the ported one producing less felt recoil. They both fit me the same. Of course the 1100 is known as a soft shooting gun. I plan to look carefully at the State trap shoot this week and see how many of the AA and better shooters don't have porting. Bob

The Better Shotmaker (tons of stuff about it on trapshooters.com) is allegedly better and easier than the Littleton. If you can find it, there's a video from early September on there, too which shows how "easy" it is to set one up and use it. I have been trying to get my shooting buddies to go in on one with me (and keep it at one of their houses). So far, no go. Bob

Check out CDNN, I bought a nice little Rizzini about six months ago for IIRC $900.00 and like it better than my friend's Browning. It looks great, shoots great, too. Regardless, listen to these guys who say not to buy the cheapies. You won't be satisfied, you won't get much out of it when you trade or sell it and you'll still pay for the quality gun in the end. Bob

I'm not sure where you engineers get the idea you'd be automatically excused b/c you'd apply logic. As a career prosecutor (who retired Friday-Look out ranges!) I can say that the State in a criminal case would like someone like you. Now, of course, there are squirrels who are engineers just like there are squirrels who are doctors, lawyers, plumbers, etc., but as to occupations, engineers are right up there with occupations we look for. A defense attorney in a criminal case might like an engineer if the physical and scientific evidence didn't point to guilt and all the State had were eyewitnesses. In a civil case, either side might like the engineer, depending on the facts and types of evidence. But, remember that each side gets a certain number of peremptory challenges which can be exercised for no reason (not for race, sex, etc.) and, for example, if I had a gun case, with lab-type evidence showing this was the gun that fired the bullet that killed someone, the defense might exercise a peremptory challenge to keep me from having that engineer I want. But, I don't think both sides would automatically exclude engineers just based on the occupation. BTW, the call in system is annoying, but the only other viable alternative is to actually report for jury duty, then be sent home if nothing is going to trial. We only use the call in system for civil cases; for criminal, you gotta show up (usually there's at least on case going anyway-often five or six). I agree with the posters who pointed out that it's important to serve in criminal cases. I'd add that serving let's you hold the prosecutor's feet to the fire, to make sure there really was a crime committed and that this is the person who committed it, to hold the defense attorney's feet to the fire to make sure that his defense is relevant (not just questions to embarrass the witnesses) and to hold the system's feet to the fire as well, to make sure it works properly. Bob

I guess I thought that was kinda normal, almost SOP for most gunsmiths. I have had work done on handguns by some of the very top names in gunsmithing and/or competitive shooting and have NEVER, EVER got the gun back within 6 months of the time promised. Of course there was the local guy who had a rifle for almost 4 years before I lost patience with his "parts are on order" excuses. And then there was the slightly lesser-known custom gunsmith, but who has been written up in several of the gunzines, who told (allegedly) a friend of mine that he preferred to work on guns from people out of state, since they couldn't bring them back to complain. Bob

Well, made it to the Tarpon Springs range about noon, then found it didn't open till 3:00! So I drove to the east side of Tampa to Arrowhead Archery. I used to shoot my Bear compound target at one of their ranges ten years ago, but now they only have the one and it's an hour+ away because of traffic. (See how this fits right in with "What I hate")? But after I got there I had a great time. The other customers were very nice, everyone admired the long bow and seemed to think it was neat. The folks at the shop made arrows up for me, checked out my old target bow and my wife's as well (I had forgotten she shot a lefty since she is left eye dominant). Everyone was just as nice as I remembered archers to be. I learned about a stringer (back in my mispent youth we just stuck our leg through, bent the bow and hooked the string on-apparently this is now considered a no-no). BTW-if you think most "shooting" sports are nice to the "new shooter", you haven't tried trapshooting. I just can't say enough about how well everyone treated me, both employees and other shooters. Then it was time to shoot and I actually didn't embarrass myself (too badly, anyway). My best group of six arrows (the range is approx. 20 yards) had four together just below and right of the aiming point, the other two, OTOH, were to the left and one was high, the other low. But at least I kept them on MY target and didn't hit the floor or ceiling one single time. This is a LOT harder than the modern bows with sights, weights, etc. The bow was made by Dean Marlow, from Tennessee, and he mostly sells wood to make them yourself. It is a real primitive type (at least to me), you shoot off your hand and there's only a thin piece of leather around the grip. It's all hickory and I like it. They recommended a glove or tab at the shop, but being the "real man" I am, I just used bare fingers. Now, of course, I have blisters (sometimes I'm a bit on the slow side) and will buy a glove next time I go. I had a great time. Bob

I can't believe I clicked on this thread a couple of weeks ago. I can't believe I read all the replies. I knew I should stop. I didn't. Just got the new, handmade longbow USPS Priority. Headed to a new (to me) archery range in Tarpon Springs tomorrow. Seems the old range in Tampa has closed. All I need are a few arrows, etc., and more etcs. Maybe I'll take the old target compound bow with all the 10 year old bells and whistles along. Just "in case", you understand. Can't believe I did this. Not like I don't have enough hobbies with handguns, rifles and my newfound skeet/5stand/sporting clays addictions. Boy, am I gonna have fun! Bob

I shoot a lot of rifles and, as a result, sometimes buy them on-line. Sometimes, the seller insists on using UPS and I have had two which were broken at the wrist. That occurs when my box is partially covered by another and the UPS gorilla reaches down, grabs the end of my box, lifts and "bends" the box, snapping the wrist of the rifle. UPS paid both times, but I would have preferred the intact rifle. I try hard to get the seller to use USPS, but if I can't, I ask him/her to tape a piece of wood or PVC along the length of the gun. that keeps the "bend" from happening. I also insist on the seller insuring the item. When I ship something, I do the same thing, but don't use UPS. Then there's the thefts, the requirement for overnighting a handgun (because of THEIR inablility to control employee thefts) and the fact that they seem to just throw the boxes around. I really don't like UPS. Bob

I saw the original thread on this, not sure I really understood all the facts, and, even if I did, I am a Florida lawyer (prosecutor), not admitted in NY. BUT-before you do this, please talk to someone who is a NY lawyer. There may be a better deal available or not, but, if you don't check.... If you already have a lawyer, then, disregard this post. It's just that I have seen so many folks plead and then learn they didn't need to later. Of course, later is too late. Bob

I love the Hornady One Shot, but I have had a couple of stuck cases in 30'06 (and IIRC, one in 223), so I am using the Dillon for rifle IF I am full length resizing (which you need to do with an AR or other semi-auto). For neck sizing with a bolt action, the One Shot is perfect. Bob

I have heard more bad than good about the shotmaker. Apparently it is a real messy operation as well as being kinda unsatisfactory. I considered it, then decided to pass. Sadly, the sporting clays/skeet/5 stand bug has bitten hard and I now have a 12, 20 and 28 to feed. Not to mention the Model 42 410 Deluxe. I think I will just have to suck up the price because, just like $3.00 gas didn't make me drive less, $30 shot and primers will not make me shoot less (at least as long as the bug has its teeth in me). Bob

Hank-thanks for those tips, too. Actually, I just bought that from him on Ebay. Haven't had time to get through it. I will keep the MEC for 12s, but I just gotta get something less maddening for the 28s. Bob

On Ebay, (search Dillon under reloading equipment) there is an aftermarket powder measure that is about twice (maybe a little less) than the regular Dillon and which is pretty easy to install. Apparently you remove the plastic hopper from your old measure and stick this one on in its place. Bob

Irishlad, thanks for the tips. I do use AAs and never have one that the crimp is bad or any other problem. Where I get into trouble is when the primer fails to drop, I don't notice it, the powder runs through the big hole, I have to use the shop vac, then there's no shell under the shot, 8s allllllll over the place, you know the drill, right? Grrrrrrr! Bob

EricW-there are, I think, 3 threads on this forum about the SL900. I just did a search with SL900 and found them that way. This thread did not show up in that search, though. There seems to be only two real opinions-either it's the greatest reloader for shotshells ever invented by man or it is the worst piece of trash ever foisted on the public by that infamous Dillon guy. Okay, I'm exagerating a bit-all right, a lot! BE, who I would think has a lot of insight into it, said, in one thread, that it works best in 12 gauge, worst in 28 and that they (Dillon) couldn't get it to work at all in 410 so there isn't one in that bore. Another poster talked about a failure of 1 in 15 or 1 in 20 b/c of the crimp. I don't recall if he was talking about the 12 gauge or not, but that seems pretty high to me. My interest is in the 28 gauge, so I am a bit concerned. Also, IIRC, BE said the loader was not for the mechanically challenged (paraphrasing here) which, I admit, I am. I can do almost anything with the 550, having had one for so long, but otherwise.... Uhhhh, let's see now, it's righty tighty and lefty loosey isn't it? Bob

I would have thought that also, but, sadly, my MEC, which is a fast progressive does not and I drop powder and shot frequently (a common complaint about MECs).

Glad someone reactivated this thread. Still trying to decide on the loader for me. In 28 gauge, cheap shells don't exist. I dislike my MEC 3000 in 12 gauge because if anything goes amiss, it will drop powder and/or shot. What a mess. Yeah, I know, tip the bar back, but.... I am still considering the SL900, but also a P-W. Does the P-W have the feature that it will not drop powder or shot if no case is present? If so, which model(s) have that? Thanks, Bob

I've tried to read all the threads on the Dillon shotshell loader (here and elsewhere). I have gleaned the following: It works best with 12ga and (someone here said) worst with 28ga shotshells and that one should leave it as close to the factory settings as possible. I have been bitten by the skeet/5 stand/sporting clays bug and am about to buy a 28ga over and under shotgun. I currently have a MEC in 12ga which works, BUT.... (If you have experience with a MEC you, too, know about dropped shot and powder) Ever try to pick up an ounce of #8 shot spilled all over your floor? Does anyone have any actual experience with the Dillon loader (especially in 28ga), good or bad? Kind of an expensive investment especially if it doesn't work. I noticed several glowing reviews on other sites, but the ones I read on this site seem to be from "regular folks," and thought I'd see if I could get any more info. Bob

Thought I had seen their name here on this forum somewhere, but my search did not show anything. They have a gun I am interested in-expensive one, of course, and I would like to have some idea about their reputation, integrity, etc. before sending them $. Thanks, Bob

I am speculating, I guess, but seems that the person interviewing you realized the problem, too, right? If so, certainly no reason not to say something relatively polite to the at least careless, if not totally stupid, offender. And, as noted, seems there's a responsibility to say something to the person or the range officer in such a situation. At least, if there is an RO, he/she can watch the guy to insure no repeat of this type of behavior IF you make him/her aware of it. Did the person have their finger off the trigger? If so, there was an opportunity to start the conversation in a very non-confrontational manner by beginning with the positive part-B4 you point out their negligence/carelessness or, if you can't resist it, the stupidity. Of course it is so easy to Monday-morning Quarterback. I can think of more than one time when something similar happened to me and I, too, said nothing . But I'm sure I had a good reason not to say anything-just can't seem to recall what it was right now. Glad you didn't get any extra holes . Bob

Check out the RCBS Casemate. For less than $100 you get a machine that will deburr those flasholes, uniform primer pockets, chamfer inside and out, etc. It also removes the military crimp from primer pockets. BTW-Get the Giraud. Bob

The easiest way to explain it, I guess, is to think of an electric pencil sharpener. Just shove the case is the hole, it stops when it gets to the right spot, trims, but is held so it can't trim too much. The Wilson might be great for benchrest, etc. where you are trimming 20 or so cases. But it is going to be sloooooow! the Giraud takes a second or so per case. If you are shooting 223s or 308s, you have to have a lot of time on your hands to use anything but a Dillon, Gracey or Giraud trimmer. NOTHING else compares. Bob

The instructions are on Doug's site. It's pretty easy, essentially loosen nuts remove one caliber, stick another in and tighten. Then you have to make relatively minor adjustments to get it to the exact length to which you want to trim. I love mine. I have 30'06 and 223 and it works superbly. I also have three Dillons and an RCBS power trimmer, since I do a lot of trimming in several calibers. This one trims and chamfers and deburrs all in a second. There is another, longer thread here about these trimmers. Bob