J_Allen

OK, this is epic. And jkrispies, thanks for that breakdown. Definitely puts it into perspective.

With the introduction of new production rules (2018 update to Appendix D4), can we now run 8 shot minor guns in production if they have bobbed hammers and extended cylinder releases? I was under the impression that these external modifications used to be a no-go, but the rules now appear to be relaxed for after market parts.

rowdyb and jkrispies, You both mentioned that matches aren’t practice, and I was just curious about this. Isn’t any trigger time a good thing? I’m just thinking from the perspective of a guy with small kids that struggles to find any time to myself whatsoever. I understand that working on a skill in practice will result in improvement much faster than not focusing on any particular aspect of the match, but matches have to count for something. I certainly have learned a lot about what NOT to do by screwing them up in local matches. Of course, I’m a relatively new D-class shooter, so maybe some big jumps are occurring just from local match exposure alone, while you are both referencing incremental improvements of an A-class shooter.

Thank you, this was exactly the sort of hard data I was interested in.

I agree that having fun is the most important thing for me (at least this year). I guess it was more curiosity than anything. Thanks for the responses so far. I’d be happy to look at some of the data if someone could point me in the right direction.

Wow! I’m really (pleasantly) surprised that the difference appears to be so close. My main motivation is not to win a major match (where I’m sure a few percentage points actually matters), but just to improve my own skill set. Of course, the classification system is the only way to collect any objective data in that regard. If it was holding me back a full class, then I’d be looking at upgrading. As it is, I’m probably a solid C shooter this year (was upper D last year), but really want to break into the B’s. I think that would give me the extra push for winter dry fire practice, which I did a little last year, but not nearly enough.

I know with the 8 shot arrays, the only way to be truly competitive in revolver division is to shoot 8 shot minor. I have been shooting 6 shot major (because that’s what I had), and was wondering how much of a disadvantage it is. Obviously on classifiers, it would depend on the set-up. I recently shot a 6 shot array classifier, and did a lot better on it than last year, so was happy with the personal improvement. And I don’t think having a lower power factor (thus less recoil) would have been a significant factor at all (for me at least). In fact, I believe that the extra points of shooting major allowed me to go faster. But I remember getting hosed on a 8 shot array classifier last year with a mandatory reload after engaging each target once - so for a 625 = three reloads will really kill your score. So maybe for classification, it evens out over time since you are using your higher scores. However, for a match with longer field courses, having the extra shots will have the edge. So not debating the virtues of the 627, 929, etc. Rather, I am thinking about sticking with my 625, and just concentrating on personal improvement. But how much is it holding me back? If it’s just 5%, then I don’t think there is much incentive to get a new rig. I’m sure it could matter to someone at the competitive end of the spectrum but I’m not there yet. Any idea how much of a difference it would make to you?

Thanks, see you in the revolver forum!

Van actually brings up a good point that I totally missed in my earlier post - I mentioned that I used the muzzle support for my 6 inch gun, while it was unnecessary for my 4 inch gun. But that was not due to barrel length. I used two different holding blocks, and the 6 inch gun required me to grind off some material to make it fit. I didn’t do the greatest job, and that resulted in a sloppy fit. So how tightly the trigger guard is held in the holster would definitely influence whether a muzzle support would be worthwhile. I think one other benefit of a muzzle support that hasn’t been mentioned, is to prevent it from being accidentally bumped out from the holster after LAMR (when the holster lock is off). This is typically not a problem with standing draws. However, for a seated start, the process of sitting down may dislodge the firearm if your leg hits the muzzle. A muzzle support would be beneficial in this case. Alternatively, you could leave the locking device on, and the remember to unlock prior to any “unusual” start positions.

When you say bar, do you mean the accessory barrel support? I have a Race Master and have used it on my 6 inch gun, but find it unnecessary for my 4” 625. Van, you might have just inspired me to shoot a match with 44 magnum. Maybe a fun match, last one of the year.

Have you used the 629 for USPSA? Seems a little aggressive (in a good way). Please tell me you have used full on magnums. I could see Russians clearing the cylinder, but I tried specials on my first match last year, and they were a little too long for me to get clean ejection. Went out right after and picked up a 625.

Late to the show, but I’ll join the choir - BMT all the way for moon clips (using Plano tackle box at matches). As for the loading block mentioned earlier, I use 5 Star Firearms with their speed loaders.

I am using TK firing pin with their speed hammer and Wilson mainspring - working great so far. Unfortunately can only compare to stock (no experience with C&S or Apex).

Thanks, that’s what I thought. I’m going to be shooting my 625 again this year (2nd year USPSA), but am looking around for a possible new gun. Saw that the PC 686 plus was marketed towards “competition”, but didn’t really understand the niche. If shooting minor I’d want 8 rounds. If I was looking for home defense I sure wouldn’t be using the orange front blade. I guess it could always serve the purpose of fun range gun (i.e. you don’t always have to have a reason for wanting a new gun). Just surprised S&W is making such a combo. I could see the 4” PC 686 (similar configuration, but only 6 shots), for if you wanted to use speed loaders in IDPA, but wanted to have the option of moon clips. But why not spec out a 627 like this instead? EDIT: I just realized the extended cylinder release would be illegal in IDPA, so the 4 inch gun doesn’t make sense either (other than “just because”).

So I just saw one of these in the store yesterday: https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/performance-center-model-686-plus-0 I didn’t quite get it. Sure it looks cool and all, but why not just replace the front sight and add an aftermarket cylinder release to a 627? Is there any competition where a moon clipped 7 shooter would be desired? Admittedly, I’m kind of new to competition shooting, but I don’t see the market. Smaller hands where the N-frame is too big? Am I missing something here?

Hi, just a quick introduction to give some background for future posts. 2017 was my first year in USPSA, and I shot a S&W 625. I know, total disadvantage to go 6 shot major, but I’m going to do it again this year to try to show steady improvement. I am currently a D-class shooter based on last year’s performance, so basically bottom of the rankings, but I’m having fun which is the main thing. As I improve over time, I have no doubt that I’ll upgrade gear. Although double action revolvers are my first love, I’ll probably end up switching divisions in the future too, as there is no local competition for revolver shooters. Everybody I met last year was super nice, so looking forward to the day when I can be helpful to somebody else. I’ll try to post if I can, as I would like to keep adding new content to the revolver forum (which has been great to read over the past year). Take my early contributions with a grain of salt, as I am still pretty green. Thanks!