TacticalReload

How was it possibly indexing at 1:30 position? Was the barrel that out of spec?

I'm guessing this is going to be $300+? I'm hoping not because it doesn't have a hammer (obviously) but it seems like it includes three different triggers. Are there any pricing figures out there?

isnt production for guns with factory parts externally only? There specifically is a rule for Production (and therefore CO as well) that pertains to aftermarket slides and barrels that states same profile, length, and caliber as factory, even if it's aftermarket, is legal.

My hope is that it would work for CO eventually. But maybe it won't fit in the box or something and not make it? I'm not going to pretend to know all of the rules. It's just that I find accurate guns interesting and I bet Apex will do it right, right out of the box. If they're going to CNC the slide it's nothing to insert a few more commands to make the cut for an optic. Or anyway, it seems to me that it's no big deal but I'm not a machinist and the only thing I know about CNC is to stay away from it. But I think that's why S&W can offer it so inexpensively on their CORE guns. As of right now, slides can only be replaced with ones of the same length, regardless of fitting in the box (but it wouldn't fit anyway). So unless S&W decides to start offering 6" slides / barrels, it will be a no-go in CO -- same as Production.

True and unfortunate for people who like to switch up the rotation from time to time. I remember when I went through TASER certification. During the force on force portion of training, the guy in the redman suit was able to nearly tackle me because, despite hours of flipping the safety up (like with the Beretta), once I was under the pressure of the scenario, I went to flip it off in a downward way.

Seems like this type of gun would be best positioned for Limited class. I'm not sure optics would be a priority for most users.

So if the mag body is shorter in the 10 rounder and longer in the 17 rounder, and we are talking about spring pressure when fully loaded, why would the spring be any more compressed in the 10 rounder with 10 rounds in the mag than in the 17 rounder with 17 rounds in the mag? I would figure that round #1 in the 10 rounder would be like #8 in the 17 rounder... and so on. I understand that since it's in S&W's best interest to NOT allow 11 into the 10 rounder, with no such fear in the 17 rounder, it might be a slightly tighter fit when fully loaded; but I can't imagine that it's all that substantial. It's not like I can almost get 18 into the 17 rounder or anything.

I have a standard DA gun. There is no thumb safety.

I considered it. It's impossible to get. I've been looking for it (same or similar to the one from the P224) for a while... it's out everywhere and SIG isn't selling Legion parts.

Oh yeah... I forgot to mention, lhelliott, I'd love to go that route. If I had the money right now, a P226 Legion SAO would be on my short list. However, trying to deal with M&Ps has me broke. It kills me that I could have bought one for just a little more than what I have into my M&P PC even before the red dot.

I actually have the stock Hogue wood grips on it now. Those grips are so fat that I figured it would be less of a problem. However 100% of the time, it still wouldn't lock back. I know that counting rounds would just be the easiest... But in IDPA it's more problematic. Plus losing count just once or twice a match can add probably a second or two to the times. It's not worth it, IMO, unless I can find a hardware solution instead of a software one... Because my software is kind of buggy sometimes. :-)

Yeah... That would be great. We might be able to get this gun down to one MOA. ;-)

You'll have to host the pics somewhere and put the link in the post. I use photobucket.com

It's actually 17 rounds, not 19. Not a big deal to the story, but it just shows you really do live in a commie state.

I decided to bust out the P226 Elite Stainless this morning. 20+ years ago, I cut my teeth on a P-series gun; and shooting the gun reminded me how much I love the platform. .40 loaded to minor in a gun this heavy basically makes the high bore axis a non-issue. One thing I don't love so much, however, is a thumbs-forward grip causing me to ride the slide lock. Back in the day, I was still using a thumb-over-thumb grip so it wasn't an issue. I have long since moved away from that grip unless I'm shooting a revolver. Now, no matter how I try, I can't get the thing to lock back when empty. I've tried keeping my thumb very wide, very high, somewhat low... I simply can't find a comfortable grip other than my old school revolver grip that works. And I've just been shooting too long for me to start changing things up and going back to that grip now. Anyone have any suggestions other than giving up the idea of shooting a SIG in IDPA / USPSA?

I tried pay close attention while shooting this morning to see if my gun goes out of battery at all. I didn't see it... even though my fully-loaded full-capacity mags are quite a bear to get seated with the slide closed.

In general, I think Brian is probably correct with his assessment. I do, however, think that the "average" M&P9 4.25" or 5" is probably not as accurate as the "average" SIG, Glock, HK, etc. I have a minuscule and statistically irrelevant sample size (as does everyone outside of the S&W factory) but of the 6 M&P9's that I've shot a decent amount, one was terrible, one was fairly bad, three were okay, and one was excellent. The one M&P40 I've shot a lot is as accurate as the best 9mm. I have no experience with the .45acp version. I also think that accuracy problems is due to a detrimental design that is exacerbated by tolerance stacking, rather than purely due to sloppy fit.

Awesome. Glad I could help.

That's what I used.

Mine all drop out free and easy, but I have a hard time seating new mags (empty or full) until I leave them fully loaded for a full two weeks. Sorry... don't mean to derail the thread.

Yes... that is barrel springing. You'll have to remove some material at the muzzle end where it's binding... there will be an area on the top and an area on the bottom where the barrel makes contact with the slide. I took a little from the top and a little from the bottom. I'm not sure if there is an advantage of doing it this way or taking it all from the top or taking it all from the bottom. Either way, use the dykem or whatever you're using to fit the barrel to see where it's binding up.

I found a .40 FS that turned out to be extremely accurate. 9mm, not so much.

They were willing to send you a replacement PC backstrap? I heard they are not even willing to sell them due to supply.

Brian. I've thought about trying the 160 gr bullets but I was afraid of issues with the case wall thickness. What is your recipe?

Where do you get HST bullets? Are they pulled? And are they more accurate than XTP's? While doing some dry-firing today I noticed that when the striker is released, frequently there is horizontal movement of the dot. This probably explains why I'm getting horizontal spread, even with the Apex barrel. It appears that, while the Apex barrel has tightened up the barrel-to-slide fit as well as the vertical movement of the slide on the frame, there is still considerable movement side-to-side between the slide and frame. The inertia of the striker seems to be enough to upset the slide. I'm not sure how to deal with that except to try to spread the front rails / locking block a little bit. I took a measurement and there is a full hundredth of an inch difference between this locking block rails' outside width and one of the others that I have. I could order a spare one to play with, but I'm afraid that it might make the fit with the Apex barrel loose if it's not as tall. To give you an idea of the amount of play, if I wiggle the slide side to side, the muzzle end will actually touch both sides of the inside of the dust cover area of the frame. The more I play with this gun, the more I wonder if design and production was secretly outsourced to Kel-Tec. Anyone have any ideas on the easiest way to open up the rails a tiny bit (without peening them)? I need to check the movement of the rear of the slide to make sure the rear rails aren't allowing a whole lot of sideways play as well... if so, there isn't much I can do about that one because if I make the front rails wider but the rears are still an issue then the slide will just pivot sideways around the front rails. I feel like if I can cut down on this movement, I can probably shrink the groups with the Apex even further (and maybe even improve on the terrible OEM barrel a little as well).