gearguywb

Whatever you buy is really just a good starting platform. You will end up changing trigger (for length if nothing else), adding a mag well, possibly changing safeties, etc. Find a fair deal on one, then buy ammo!

Anyone have a good starting load for Clays loaded long (1.20)? Thanks

I shot a 6" lightened slide, etc, and a 5" full dust cover, bull barrel gun back to back yesterday. Not much difference in muzzle lift. The point of balance is certainly different. They feel different. You need to try both and decide for yourself.

Para is available. Bought one, made the changes to suit me. I run 10mm mags with ammo loaded to 1.20. Pretty darn good gun for the $$$

Just registered

Triggers may work in a bit but not much. You do not need to clean the trigger parts very often at all. Go to your local GS and weigh the trigger. I would be very surprised if it is anywhere near the 10lb mark. Mine was around 5 out of the box.

Yes, that is more "standard" 40 length. You get a lot more reloading options using the 10mm mags and loading to a longer OAL.

The older Gold Cups were prone to breaking rear sights at the roll pin.

I agree but you may be taking it out of context. My point was there are a lot of ways to compress time that yield better results than focusing on the draw. If someone is cutting a .9 to your 1.4 it is probably a safe assumption that you are in much different classes!

You are correct Flack, if you start talking Steel Challenge or the Masters then the draw time becomes far more important than it does in IPSC. I am not saying that draw times are unimportant in IPSC, but they rank fairly far down the list in terms of payback. As you said, there is usually only one draw per stage, and on top of that, many stages do not start with a "draw", rather gun on the table, something else in your hands, run to the first shooting position, etc. All of which negate the draw speed.

There are a couple of threads here on the 40 Para. I picked one up a few weeks back and am very impressed with the value for the $$$. I always use 10mm mags with ammo loaded to 1.20

Indeed! Great advice, but why not speed up both? Indeed! But not at the sacrifice of getting the correct grip on the gun to begin the stage. Too many times while teaching I have had shooters tell me how fast their draw is or how fast they can shoot a split on an open target. Both things are fairly meaningless on the majority of the stages. The real work begins after stage analysis and understanding where the biggest chunks of time are spent, then coming up with a plan to reduce those numbers. I always remind them, (with very few exceptions) that you only draw the gun once on a stage. I wouldn't argue with that statement at all! And actually with the little experience I have shooting I wouldn't argue with anyone here anyway. I guess I would put the "super fast draw" as a component of shooting good classifier times since it seems that you have to go all zone 3 to get a good time on them (since the occasional "Hail Mary" gets lucky and pushes those out of match speed for the said class). Do you find you have a different draw speed for a classifier stage than you do for a field stage? Thanks for the info! Classifiers are all a bit of a crap shoot. Too many people shoot them over and over again to get a good score to send in. They are just hurting themselves. The best shooters are the ones that consistently work on getting better, and the majority of the classifiers come from shooting major matches. That's the real test!

This. Don't forget to take a look at the DW Pointman 9. I have been really impressed with the finish on the PM.

Indeed! Great advice, but why not speed up both? Indeed! But not at the sacrifice of getting the correct grip on the gun to begin the stage. Too many times while teaching I have had shooters tell me how fast their draw is or how fast they can shoot a split on an open target. Both things are fairly meaningless on the majority of the stages. The real work begins after stage analysis and understanding where the biggest chunks of time are spent, then coming up with a plan to reduce those numbers. I always remind them, (with very few exceptions) that you only draw the gun once on a stage.

Speed on the draw (in most cases) is pretty worthless. The difference between mediocrity and fast is somewhere around .15 seconds. .15 seconds on a stage. Meaningless. Worth about 1 point on most stages. OTOH, if you can reduce the target transition time by .10 of a second, and there are 10 transitions on a stage…now we are talking a real difference!

You can never be fast using the conscious mind.....at anything. The whole slow/smooth/fast thing was a way to teach shooters how to conduct a specific finite movement. As you learn that movement (with correct practice), speed becomes possible. Straight up, we started around the same time and probably shot with some of the same guys

This will probably start an uproar, but this is the most misused quote I. The shooting world. Slow is slow. Fast is fast. The goal is to be soooo smooth you are fast. Have fun

This has actually gotten to be pretty hilarious. Now we can't process the sight picture that we see until after the second shot? Really? The whole discussion of splits is fairly absurd to begin with. Simply shoot every shot as fast as that shot can be fired accurately. Nothing more. Nothing less. If you are looking for time, splits are not the place to look for it.

I load to 1.20 and have always used 10mm mags.

Picked it up tonight. First impression is that it is a lot of gun for the $$$$

When a question is asked you must be able to accept the answer....or why bother?

I picked one up the other day off Gun Broker. Should be here tomorrow. Once I get a good look at it I will figure out mag well, trigger, action job, etc.

We've already established this in the thread; however, Cha-Lee is now saying see your sights every time. I'm saying, he's not really seeing his sights every time. The Human eye will pick up an object faster than .11 of a second. I'm not arguing that. It will not, however pick up a tiny object going through it's recoil cycle which may take that same amount of time to settle down. Now, I'm not talking about slide movement which has been established at .04 seconds or less, I'm talking about muzzle movement, which in a major load will typically take at least that long to start coming back into the realm of stationary. Let's be realistic, his sights still moving when he breaks the second shot. The question then is, it still moving faster than his eyes can interpret and how long does it take his eyes and brain to interpret? So, in summation and what I'm currently saying - on the close shots, I don't think he's using his sights for the follow-up shot. I understand where you are coming from. Until you can do it, it is easy to say it can not be done. Not trying to be harsh, but the question was asked and answered. I can tell you that the only time I do not see my sights......is well, just about never. When it does happen, then I am scared to death to go look at that target. I worked for a few years teaching Special Forces soldiers close quarter, counter-terrorism techniques. I can't begin to tell you how many 2-4 yd targets were missed with M-4's as well as pistols because they were "point shot"

The speed of a second shot split has nothing to do with wether or not you see the sights. I don't know the individual that you are referring to, but the eye will certainly pick up an object much faster than .11 of a second. Many sports revolve around the ability to truly see. Think hitting a baseball, tennis, etc. Almost any sport you can think of. One of the main reasons it becomes harder to compete at the top level in most sports is that we loose some of that fine focus and definition as we age.