IHAVEGAS

? I assumed you could file the new sight as needed for a snug but not crazy tight fit. Have not had a front or fixed rear move (have not installed an adjustable rear) and I put them in just like on the videos on Dawson Precisions website. For what it is worth.

Yes, that is obvious. This was the question. "Out of curiosity, (not being a smarta** here) did you tell the OP that early on, when you talked on the phone, or only later in this thread. " I think you will also note that he is guaranteeing that when the work is completed the gun will hit a 1" paster square. If you feel that this accuracy guarantee is not possible, I do not have a dog in the fight anymore and you may pursue it or not as you wish.

"Out of curiosity, (not being a smarta** here) did you tell the OP that early on, when you talked on the phone, or only later in this thread. "

He was told in extensive detail why we don't give a group guarantee or percentage of accuracy increase. Some of these guns are very accurate from the factory. Uh - no. If you re-read your post from earlier in this thread you will read about lack of communication and your explanation that this was due to whoever normally communicates being on vacation (Hawaii I think,). If it is important I could dig the email communication out of my back up hard drive, kind of a nuisance but if you would like to see the data I can sympathize with that perspective . I think we are just debating at this point rather than sharing any useful info so maybe it is time to let the thread die ? Not my call, but just a thought.

Yes you made the plastic frame / ransom rest point clear previously, I'm not sure why you would think that a human can not be involved in an objective test though, if that is the point you are making now. Objective is mechanically repeatable to a very high percentage. A good shooter can observe that the bullet went where it the sights said it should go. The groups size could be larger than the perfect group and be a very straight shooting gun. I've given you that data, and you said is not valuable. The data would be a test group fired from my gun under controlled conditions, which is where this thread started . I have a Bruce Gray to shoot the best groups possible, but as I originally stated, we would have to do a before and after to obtain the detail you requested. That is cost prohibitive for most folks. Sounds reasonable, and I could see where a lot of folks would prefer the option of avoiding the cost. I think sometimes it is easy to get directed toward winning an argument and away from the logical thinking you would do outside of a debate. One test for this is to look at your text and see if you are pointing out obvious things that the reader would already be aware of. If you reconsider you will note that what I have asked for (a test group under controlled conditions) is standard and typical for some manufacturers. I think I noted previously that my first XD came with exactly what I am looking for in the box from the factory, I suppose that Springfield decided that it was not cost effective to continue to supply test groups with the new guns and I can understand this given the cost point and the fact that many customers might not see it as significant. My most recent gun purchase (a CZ) also came with a test group that I did not need to ask for. You might also note that I never expressed any desire for a before and after test. I can understand why a vendor might want to document improvement but the end result is all that I would be interested in. In a situation where a vendor can not guarantee that they can provide the result that the customer is looking for, this could be made clear prior to any purchase commitment and the customer could decide whether or not they are willing to pay for the process regardless of the results. I agree with your point here completely.

Yes you made the plastic frame / ransom rest point clear previously, I'm not sure why you would think that a human can not be involved in an objective test though, if that is the point you are making now. Objective is mechanically repeatable to a very high percentage. A good shooter can observe that the bullet went where it the sights said it should go. The groups size could be larger than the perfect group and be a very straight shooting gun. I've given you that data, and you said is not valuable. The data would be a test group fired from my gun under controlled conditions, which is where this thread started .

No issues. I've never had a gun shoot well in hand but shoot poorly on a bench (or the other way around) though, so the data is valuable to me.

Yes you made the plastic frame / ransom rest point clear previously, I'm not sure why you would think that a human can not be involved in an objective test though, if that is the point you are making now.

Most all of our customers understand this. A very small minority want something that can only be tested subjectively to have an objective "guarantee." Hmmm. Outside of this thread, the firearms business is sort of the gold standard for guarantees in general. "Lifetime of the original purchaser" , "no questions asked" , etc, are the guarantees / warrantees that costumers enjoy with about any handgun purchase and with many or most fire arm accessory related purchases. The assumption of that most basic level of consumer protection does not seem unusual. Warranties are a money maker for most handgun companies as they promote sales by increased consumer confidence. There is obviously a cost to providing a warranty, but there is only a meaningful cost when the product does not meet warranty requirements in a significant number of instances. My intuition is that if the provider feels the need to pass all risk to the consumer then questions should be asked. It is not obvious why accuracy would be subjective to one vendor but objective to many others. In regard to accuracy, I believe that all major manufacturers have a specification and guarantee for each major model of handgun. I think Springfield guarantees the full size XD for example to be capable of 5" 20 yard groups, but I'm quoting the numbers from memory here so a call to Springfield would get a more reliable specification.

I understand your opinion, we just do not agree. Peace.

Was having trouble removing a front so I called one of the sight manufacturers and they told me that at around 160 f loctite will go back to a liquid state. Do not know how far you went with the heat, but for what it is worth. I finally got that one to move but I don't know if it was the heat that made the difference. Took a S&W with a stubborn rear sight to a local gunsmith for my Father, after giving up myself. He started with the small hammer, then progressed to the mid sized hammer and then we agreed to give up after a couple unsuccessful raps with the big hammer, S&W fixed that one for us.

Interesting. My company spends a lot of time making sure service contracts are as detailed about measurable results and payment schedules as is practical, and a purchasing agent would always let me know if I was ambiguous or if I screwed up the fine points on a purchase order ( those folks have a thing about 'will' and 'shall'). I would not say that you are wrong, but just that we are very different types of customers. To me, tying down the measurables makes things better for both parties and it is just the way I do business, effort or good intentions won't buy baby new shoes . The other thing is, individuals on this thread aside, sometimes you get hosed if you are not careful.

Hmmm, I wonder if that means the same thing as uh oh. Modified post so the image showed up. Have an SP01 also. The disco that I messed up was originally in the SP01 and everything worked well. Hmmm, swap trigger bar between the the two guns & just see what happens ?

Saw this on calguns while snooping about for a bit. Have a new disco in hand but have not touched anything, the first one will be regarded as a souvenir. Bought the cz custom drop in short reset version this time as I'm assuming dimensions are not exactly the same as the cgw 'drop in' and figured I might get lucky. Anyway. Problem with my gun is that it will not reset in double action (unless you remove the slide lock and allow the slide to move forward about 1/32" from normal rest position). Talked to CGW Friday. If I understood correctly (any errors below are entirely my fault and no other parties): a. It is Abbie Normal to have a problem with double action reset. CGW said my gun was like the second one this year. b. The fix for my gun is most likely to very carefully remove material from the wing as shown above. Probably will need something like a diamond sharpening stone, need to go slow and be very careful to retain the original angles. c. A way to see if I am on the right track is to pull the hammer back slightly. If the problem is as I'm thinking, the double action should reset when the hammer is pulled back slightly. For what it is worth. Will probably spend a long time looking and thinking before grinding this time. Web search thrice cut once . Anyway, any thoughts are always appreciated.

"Are the test targets from CZC shot freehand?" Free hand and at 10 yards is what I was told on the phone.

If you drop the gun during the COF it's a DQ, all other places and times you are correct about a RO picking it up without a DQ. Looks like if you dropped the gun because you were handling it outside of either a safe area or an r.o.'s direct supervision then that is also a dq. So it seems like the only circumstances where no dq would be required would be; Gun dropped in safe area or under r.o.'s supervision but not during the course of fire, and r.o. picks it up. Gun dislodged but not handled and drops but not during the course of fire & r.o. picks it up. Right?

Thank you. "New (unfired) disco for sale cheap" .

Don't know about guns without manual safeties. For a 1911/2011 if the thumb safety is off the gun has to be in your hand, sort of like three gun I think. My dq, table start, do I want to position the gun on the table pointing downrange with the thumb safety off or on, chose off, dq. Another new guy on my squad didn't know the rule either but he was shooting a glock, no thumb safety so no option for wrong choice and no dq. +1 for learning the rules of the game before playing.

Aok, hook. Sort of like the 'lower forward edge of the wing' though if you do not know about the 'h' word .

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191773&page=16#entry2448321 The tuning thread is likely where I should be asking about disco fitting details, rather than on this one. So I moved. Please forgive the double post.

The area behind the wedge must be filed down: This is sort of a double post, which is bad, but I think now I'm posting in the right thread which is good. As had been noted elsewhere, this is a great thread and the proprietor deserves medals and dancing girls. And sear cages are from hell. And working on these guns can be fun and rewarding. Fiddled with an SP01, pretty much followed exactly what was done on page 1. Worked great, after I finally looked close enough to better understand the sear cage going back together part, will not touch the sear cage innards again unless I feel like I have to though. Put a CGW drop in disco in a CTS-LS SA/DA for my next trick. Gun works great in single action, double action will not catch with the gun assembled. Remove the slide & da works fine. Put the slide back on without the slide lock installed and hold it about 1/32" forward of its normal rest position and everything works fine. I'm pretty sure my disco is now fubar as I attempted to address the problem by beveling the lower forward edge of the wing after making sure that the trigger bar spring tension was good and that the springs were riding in the grooves correctly. Now the slide will release the hammer very prematurely under all conditions and the original issue is unaffected. I am too stubborn to quit easily so I'm thinking I'll buy another disco and go at it again. Is the area marked on the photo the right place to remove metal ?

Hmmm, that seems to make perfect sense. Will buy another disco and work up the courage to try try again, am thinking that the CZ disco is probably not dimensionally identical to the CGW disco so perhaps it is possible that the CZ will drop in (a man needs to have dreams). Would prefer not to screw up another carefully engineered piece, I don't suppose that anyone knows of a 'disco fitting for dummies thread anywhere' or maybe just a helpful picture or two? On the bright side haven't found any primers yet that the gun will not pop with an 11.5" hammer spring, but have not tried more than a couple brands (winchester & cci). Shooting the gun with the original disco today, freehand, just enough wind to bother you a little bit, no load development just some 147 g bayou loads laying around, I was 14 of 15 on a 9" paper plate at 50 yards. Given that I'm a mediocre shot I thought that spoke well for the gun.

Anyone know any logical reason why a CGW type 1 disco would not work in a CTS LS-P ? The guys at CGW are great but I think I'm wearing us out so I figured I'd seek knowledge here. Installed disco - worked great except double action would not reset - if I remove the slide stop lever and hold slide just slightly forward of normal rest position everything works fine - playing with slide off of gun it is like the trigger bar just needs to go up a tiny smidge higher to allow da reset - verified springs which ride under trigger bar are riding the grooves correctly and are at proper tension - put original disco back in and verified that everything still works great - ground a clearance bevel on the CGW disco per CGW - reinstalled type 1 disco - no change - added a little more bevel - I'm thinking a little more was too much as now the da will not reset with the gun completely together (original issue) and also the da will now drop the hammer prematurely when I'm playing with the gun with slide held slightly forward of original battery position. I could buy another type 1 disco and try again, or see if the CZ in short reset disco will work (not sure that it does anything for pre travel in single action though) , or learn to enjoy shooting with a longer pre travel. Am leaning toward investigating the CZ disco but figured I would peruse the area for thoughts first. For what it is worth. The DSPerman increased tension safety lever springs work great I think if you plan to basically not use the safety (stiff as snot, really not hard to install or a pain when you are assembling / disassembling). The reduced power trigger spring works great also (easy to install if you buy the cgw punch & replacement trigger pin & have a man sized hammer to get the old pin out).

Stock II (44 oz.), Stock II L 4.93" barrel 9mm 9X21 (45.85 oz.), Stock II Xtreme 4.50" barrel 9mm (44.09 oz.) I think you are right, saw all the 9mm and no 40 and just assumed.

I did see at least one 40 available when I was going through my last 'must buy another gun' mental episode. That much gun weight pushing a 40 loaded down to minor would just be cool (for some reason my favorite load to shoot is a 180 grain 40 at about 140 pf). I wonder if it is a lead pipe cinch that they will eventually be added to the USPSA production gun list? Weird to me that the 9's are now ok but the 40 is not. Production number based?