SinistralRifleman
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Posts posted by SinistralRifleman
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I just took 4 days of tactical rifle and advanced tactical rifle classes from Tactical Response in Tucson. I decided to use my open/trooper class rifle with dual optics for the class to assess the practicality of this configuration for situations other than shooting competitively. Over the course of these 4 days we shot about 3,000 rounds of rifle, 500 pistol, and learned quite a lot.
My rifle has a Luepold MKIV 1.5-5X Scope and an OKO mounted at 10:30 on the rail system. I use the OKO for shots 25 yards and less, and the Luepold for anything farther. I usually kept the magnification on 1.5 unless we were shooting past 75 yards.
USPSA targets were used for the purposes of the class to represent humans intent on doing you harm. The instructors placed emphasis on making hits in the A Zone of the head, and in the center A Zone only hits made above the bottom of where the A is stamped on the targeted, counted as hits. I was easily able to do this with my rifle using either optics at the distances we engaged the targets.
The only drill I had a difficult time with was shooting the rifle one handed...the weight of the rifle (it has an HBAR barrel) made it difficult to lift with one hand and put a good deal of stress on my wrist. It was easier to shoot the rifle one hand only right handed (I am a lefty) because manipulating the selector that was is easier. Once I got the rifle on target I could complete the drills easily. The CAV Comp does a good job of eliminating muzzle climb.
A good deal of the class focussed on Team Tactics in 2, 4, and 8 Man Teams. Drills included Fire and Movement, Counter-Ambush, and transporting a wounded team mate while laying down convering fire. The team tactics portion of the class is what I found the most interesting, worthwhile and fun. Doing these types of drills will definitely break you out of the "square range" mentality.
two man team fire and movement:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/training/2005-1...-23-TRI/294.jpg
http://www.cavalryarms.com/training/2005-1...-23-TRI/492.jpg
providing covering fire as two teams advanced forward:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/training/2005-1...-23-TRI/499.jpg
http://www.cavalryarms.com/training/2005-1...-23-TRI/502.jpg
"Aussie Peel" counter-ambush drill
http://www.cavalryarms.com/training/2005-1...-25-TRI/365.jpg
Building clearing
http://www.cavalryarms.com/training/2005-1...-25-TRI/421.jpg
Wounded man drill
http://www.cavalryarms.com/training/2005-1...-25-TRI/528.jpg
http://www.cavalryarms.com/training/2005-1...-25-TRI/532.jpg
The instructors at Tactical Response are very professional and their training is excellent. One of the things I like best about taking training from them is they don't care what equipment you use, or the particular shooting technique you use as long as it gets the results they want. James Yeager, the lead instructor, recently returned from Iraq having put in time as a security contractor. Yeager informed me that rifle configurations like the one I used at the class are not uncommon in Iraq...competition shooting is definitely influencing gear used in the real world.
I highly reccomend taking some training from Tactical Response if you have the opportunity. They do travel around the country putting on classes at ranges that can host them. If you host a class, you get to train for free. http://www.tacticalresponse.com
view the full galleries from the classes here:
I do need to add that Tactical Response places emphasis on Mindset, Tactics, Skill, then Gear in that order for winning the fight...it is however much easier to write about gear than about the other three. You will get a healthy dose of Mindset, Tactics, and Skill building taking a class from Tactical Response.
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The image risk with Trooper class could become a real problem. Perception is a lot and if 3-Gun gets a media rep of being a training ground for private militias we will all suffer.
Paul I have met you and you're a good guy. That said,
Your company specifically markets AR15 style rifles to people by posting pictures on various forums of Security Contractors and Soldiers in Iraq using similar configurations...if you're concerned about image, what is it you are trying to present? If you're concerned about this, MSTN might want to reconsider it's marketing practices.
Just to clarify, I actually think the photos you post and the gear you make are cool...my point is if we start worrying about being PC there are a lot of things we need to worry about, that won't change things one way or the other.
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This is a game, and we need to keep it in perspective to the real life uses of firearms. I do get caught up in the power of the guns we use, but I also come back to reality when I look at the people who are shooting the game, and the people who are watch us. We need to keep this sport a game and not a military/swat testing ground for equipment. I know alot of what we develope for use in this game ends up on the testing bench for LE/Mill, and most of the true military gear in not available to the private sector. Lets face it, we are the civilians with limited access to equipment.
Aside from newly manufactured full auto weapons (which those of us who have corporations can get access to) what are you referring to? Night vision? IR Lasers? These can all be obtained through proper channels. All the cutting edge optics and rifle systems the military is using today have been influenced by competition shooters. The only hurdle in obtaining them for most people is price.
The testing and evaluation of load bearing gear, holsters, etc we do by using them in competition has been extremely valuable to the manufacturers we give feed back to. If it isn’t comfortable or efficient for the use we put it through every other weekend…it won’t be comfortable or efficient for the people who have to wear it weeks at a time.
If you care to discuss it with me I can tell you of several specific instances where feedback I personally gave to a company was implemented before full production of products being sold to the military was implemented.
I am not a real fan of the "idea" of "Trooper Class". Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the people who want to be the Trooper Class, I just don't think "3gun, the game" is the right place for it. It is sending the wrong idea about 3gun to the masses,You're running around with an assault rifle, assault handguns and assault shotguns shooting at humanoid targets in situations that are mostly representive of real life scenerios....what you're wearing, what color your shirt and guns are really doesn't matter at that point.
People who are anti-gun hate us merely for owning guns…do you really think they can tell the difference between your JP race gun and a SOPMOD M4? I do not care about offending these people.
Fence sitters are another story…all you need to do with them is expose them to shooting as a safe and fun hobby by taking them shooting, and they are usually converted.
and in some cases rules have to be changed and coarses have to be changed to make Trooper Class fit into the match.What matches have you shot where trooper class was incorporated into the match? It wasn’t a problem at the 2004 or 2005 Cav Arms matches…and it went incredibly smoothly at the 2005 Ironman match. I dare say that the trooper squad was more efficient simply because we had all our ammo on us, and we didn’t need to run back to our cars after every stage. There were also no calls of “AMMO UP!” during the courses of fire from Trooper shooters as we were better prepared.
To incorporate Trooper into any other match, requires only as much inconvenience as incorporating Heavy Metal/He-Man. Some matches due to the distance between stages and time constraints might not be able to incorporate Trooper Class without some modifications.
I can understand that these shooters want to play too, but the look of fully decked out battle gear in a sea of brightly colored sport shirts is too much. I do like the USPSA general rules of clothing at the match, so it does not look like a bunch of para/military camandos shooting up the countryside. Again, don't get me wrong, I am not against the camo and all the gear, I am just looking from the outside, in.Most of the Trooper Shooters at the 2005 Ironman Match:
Aside from our ruck sacks how do we look all that much different from any other competitors there?
To anti-gunners a 3 Gun match already looks like a bunch of “para-military commandos shooting up the country side”…who are you afraid to offend? If we offend other shooters by shooting this way…well they need to live and let live. I try to avoid giving other people a hard time about their various shooting sports no matter how asinine I find their rules and procedures to be.
MKuhn,I agree with you, guns and shooting will never be a PC as we would like it to be. I gave up on that idea along time ago. But we still need to be available for the general masses that do show up. If one person out of a 100, or even a 1000 showed up at the range because they heard alot of shooting going on, it is worth it not to scare them off. Every once and awhile I see a local mayor or public offical show up at a big match to show support to the gun owners of the area, and I am sure public image is on their mind before showing up. I sure everone is aware of the problems with kids and guns, god knows the media does. Well why give them anymore fuel for the fire. I know that we will never get a break from the media, but camo on kids is not a good picture, unless it has something to do with hunting, (and I know, the general public does not like that either).
Look where this politically correct attitude got you in California...all modern firearms with high capacity magazines are banned! Where gun owners are afraid and hide in the closet, try to be PC, it gets them nowhere!
I contrast our activists hereand our gun culture in AZ is loud, offensive, and obnoxious...we haven't had any anti-gun laws passed in many years, and more pro-gun laws are passed every year.
I just remembered something I've seen at matches and read on this forum:
Gunny,I shoot right handed, and load right handed, in Open Class mostly. So I use Tech tubes when ever I can, but when I need to load by hand, (limited style) I pull ammo from a bandolier that is mounted to a vest I wear...
How is your tac vest any different from the one I wear or anyone else wears? Only real difference I see is you usually wear black...where I prefer green or brown/tan because it doesn't get as hot in the sun.
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I got yelled at at a sub-machinegun match for exercising such good trigger control they thought I had it on semi. The RO is yelling at me "put it on full auto!"....I yell back "IT IS, IT'S CALLED TRIGGER CONTROL@!!!!@!!1!"
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I just spent the past 4 days attending Tactical Rifle classes put on by Tactical Response. I have previously taken handgun, sub-machine gun, and shotgun training from them.
The number of problems that can be solved with rifles, especially groups of people with rifles, dramatically out number those that can be solved with shotguns. I wouldn't want anyone on my "team" to have a shotgun unless for a special purpose like breaching, nor can I think of an instance I would go to a shotgun if a rifle or sub-machine gun was available. Range, Rate of Fire, and Reloads are all much better with a rifle.
The scenerios in which we use shotguns most often at matches, seem artificial to me...as others mentioned it would make more sense to shoot the gun empty then continue on with handgun.
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I have tried to get a lot of people to shoot 3Gun locally, and successfully cajoled a bunch. The #1 and #2 objections/excuses BY FAR are that they don't think they're good enough (intimidated) or don't have all the equipment. I don't hear anything about rules, reholstering, power factor, or scoring, etc. up faster and faster the last few years. The sport is growing leaps and bounds with the different rule
Is this in-line with others' experience? If so, then maybe "growing the sport" should concentrate on the actual perceived barriers to new shooters, and not relatively obscure rules?
This is completely in line with my experience and why we have started putting on General Introduction to Multi-Gun Classes monthly for free to get more new people involved.
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and let's not forget Open Class type holsters!!!!
Open class type holsters are specifically prohibited at our match.
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Well gentlemen, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this...if we ever perceive hot re-holstering to be any more of a liability than it is running a match in and of itself, we will discontinue allowing it at our match.
This is something the people running a match need to assess for themselves and see if it fits well with the type of shooters they are attracting.
One reason we wanted to do our own match, was so we could shoot machine guns, do trooper class, and hot transitions....things we typically do not get to do anywhere else. We are also trying to attract people outside the typical competition shooting circles, for whom having the option of doing these things might make the match more interesting for them to attend.
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Having run two matches now that had hot re-holstering...I don't see it as a safety issue.
Every person I RO'ed that reholstered a hot handgun, I could see them slow down and deliberately holster it. Afew of these people were very glad they had their handguns later in the stage when their rifles stopped working and I gave them the OK to transition. If someone didn't want to reholster hot....they were welcome to clear it. I'd never require someone to do something they feel uncomfortable doing.
Regardless of the action someone is performing, problems arise when they compromise safety for speed. If someone is trying to go to fast, they're going to screw up.
The motivation to not shoot yourself, should be enough in and of itself for people to exercise safe gun handling. If we are saying every other action on the range is incapable of causing injury or death due to gross negligence on the part of the shooter, we are kidding ourselves. To shoot yourself or someone else you've had to violate at least one critical safety rule, usually multiple safety rules...if you can't follow those rules you shouldn't be shooting at all.
1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
2. Never allow the muzzle to point at anything you are not willing to see destroyed.
3. Be sure of your target and know what lies behind it.
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are aligned on target.
To shoot yourself reholstering hot you've had to violate rules 1,2, and 4...someone breaking those rules is just as likely to shoot themselves performing any other action in a practical shooting match, or simply plinking on the range on a sunday afternoon.
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Lawman,
regarding the ironman match...I think given the length of the stages it is almost impossible to reshoot people.
You are correct that USPSA and outlaw matches attract different types of people.
The ironman match for example, is cool to me because of the insanely high round count and the stages that take up to 10 minutes to shoot. With so many variables in a match like that, you pretty much have to accept the fact there will be some inconsistencies...the amount and type of shooting at ironman is what makes it fun to me. At the same time if someone is more seriously into it as competition, I can easily see how the inconsistencies can drive them mad.
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I just illuminate my targets with muzzle flash!
http://www.cavalryarms.com/3gun/vids/stage-10-Russell.wmv
load up some cartridges with some nice bright flash powder and you are good to go! w00t!
Frankly weapons mounted lights are SAFETY devices as far as I am concerned that allow the shooter to positively ID the targets and be conscious of their muzzle orientation in a low light environment...it should also make it easier and safer for the RO in low light stages to be aware of the shooter's muzzle orientation.
just my $0.02
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unfortunately I got the sponsorship info for this match when it was too late to send out prizes and have them be there on time...If I have more advance notice for next time I'll make sure you guys get something
Russell Phagan
Cavalry Arms Staff
480-833-9685
SinistralRifleman@hotmail.com
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Don't do away with shotguns! At the advice of a few TROOPER CLASS shooters from the CAVARMs 2005 match, I just bought a new Bennelli.
You'd still be able to use it...just wouldn't be required. There may be some stages where it could be to your advantage to use shotgun and transition after you shoot it empty.
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Let's face it folks, unless you are on a SWAT team, or on your way to the sand box, it is a "game". This game is all about going as fast as possible while still staying on the track (analogy to staying on the track here is scoring 90%+ of the available stage points and not incurring misses and penalties). The goal of staying in racing is to keep going faster and faster and faster and faster, ad infinitum ;-)
The probability is you are correct...most of us never will use our firearms in a deadly encounter, I personally hope I never do. If I ever do have to I wish to be prepared as best as possible though. This guy probably hoped he'd never get into a gunfight either http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21463
To me part of owning firearms, and carrying them daily, imparts a moral responsibility to be skilled at arms and continually improve those skills. Competitive shooting is one of the best venues to regularly practice skill at arms and gun handling (notice I didn't say tactics...that's why I take classes). Yes shooting is fun, and competitions are fun, but even if it wasn't as fun I would probably participate just as much to continually hone my skills.
If we aren't practicing a martial art...shooting competitively lacks some value to me as an individual, and for R&D purposes for both the products we make and those of companies we are friendly with that we use.
Even as a "tactical" matter, what sort of realistic scenario requires fast reholstering to survive? What real world skill is fast reholstering testing?How about getting your rifle going and back in the fight?
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hot reholstering is a lot less unsafe than various other tasks that have been required at various matches. See if you can guess which matches they were at...
Running over wet rocks while it's raining in a river bed while shooting a handgun...I did fall on this stage and managed not to ND or drop my gun
Jumping across a shallow stream to a sharp embankment while shooting a handgun
climbing a 20 foot tower carrying a rifle (unloaded) on a sling with high winds and slippery steps on the ladder.
driving a vehicle and shooting at the same time
driving a vehicle backwards and shooting at the same time
riding in a vehicle and shooting a course of fire with the RO turning me in the direction I need to shoot.
...these are just the ones I can think of right now. Now I am not complaining about having to do any of them, the unique situations at these matches is what makes them interesting. The difference between these situations and the hot reholstering of a handgun, is reholstering is totally under control of the shooter.
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Regarding hot reholstering...with modern daily carry or field suitable holsters I don't think it is really a issue. Perhaps a minimum trigger pull weight needs to be specified for safety too? If someone shoots themselves in the process of reholstering, they've broken several critical safety rules, the most important one being have your finger off the trigger. You are right in that we do have to play to the lowest common denominator to some degree...but do the lowest common denominator really shoot competitively?
I've taken quite a few "tactical" firearms classes, run as hot ranges with hot transitions, that have included shooters much less skilled than the average practical action shooter, and with a ratio of one teacher to 10 to 20 students no one has managed to shoot themselves yet. I think it would probably be even easier to keep more skilled people from shooting themsleves with a 1:1 shooter to Range Officer ratio.
What we are seeing here is a critical difference of opinion on the nature of firearms and what competitions are trying to simulate. If we want competitions to simply be shooting galleries we should forgo the humanoid targets and scenerio based stages.
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Personally I like total time scoring...if someone screws up badly, it should hurt them for the whole match. If someone brings unreliable equipment and it takes them twice as long to shoot a stage because their gun didn't work, it should hurt them for the whole match. If there can only be one or two long range rifle stages out of 8-10, anything other than total time scoring marginalizes those long range stages. Bring equipment that works 100%, don't screw up, and you will be fine...most of the people I hear complaining about total time scoring use equipment with narrow operating ranges to gain some marginal increased performance, or they lack confidence in their own abilities. The few times I shot total time matches where my equipment broke and it cost me, I made damn sure all my equipment worked the next time. The other reason I like total time scoring is it is incredibly simple
More problem solving on the part of the shooter....you determine which of your firearms will work best and in what combination in a given scenerio.this sounds great till you have everone running around shooting every stage with their beta mag and not using pistol or shotgun
You can't shoot close steel targets with rifle...stage design will force you transition. Or we say in the stage description "Shooter must fire at least one round of long gun and one round of side arm, failure to do so is a 20 second procedural"....stage design and descriptions solve a lot of problems we don't need to create rules for. Half the stages at our 2005 match were run like this, allowing the shooter more free thought in what they do is a good thing IMHO...at the same time I know it screwed with some people because they are used to being told exactly what to do and when.
If people don't want to use shotguns at all, that doesn't bother me. From what I have been seeing amongst other groups of shooters and on other forums, many more people would be interested in "multi-gun" shooting if shotgun was not a required component. They do not use a shotgun on duty, don't own a shotgun, and/or have no desire to purchase one simply for the sake of playing a "game." That said if someone has one, is proficient with it, and wishes to use it on the appropriate targets, I think they should be able to.
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Points 1 and 2 of Zak's post will probably be implemented at the 2006 Cavalry Arms Match.
1) Shotgun won't be eliminated, but will be left optional for those who choose to use it
2) True multi-gun format:
Paper Targets: Rifle, Pistol, or Shotgun Slug
Steel Targets under 100 yards: Pistol or Shotgun Shot
Steel Targets over 100 yards: Rifle, Pistol, or Slug
More problem solving on the part of the shooter....you determine which of your firearms will work best and in what combination in a given scenerio.
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I don't think anyone want matches to be all Taco Bell. I think everybody wants a good steak and potatoe dinner, they just don't want to have to eat them with chop-sticks. (if that makes any sense?)
makes sense perfectly.
My thoughts are basically we should stop trying to change what everyone else is doing, and help grow whichever particular variation of the sport that we care for the most. The more people involved in any aspect of practical action shooting, the better.
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1) USPSA versus the "Outlaws".
My favorite matches have tended to be the outlaw matches in particular Rocky Mtn. 3 gun and North American Tactical. That being said, I would like to see all the 3 gun matches move under the USPSA umbrella. Why? Consistency. We should have one set of equipment rules, one set of procedures and one scoring system. Having 5 sets of rules helps only those with the time and money to deal with them. It does not help 3 gun grow.
A person should be able to both attend and run a 3 gun match in BFE, Arizona and BFE, Maine and have consistency.
Saying all matches should be USPSA to me is a lot like saying all fast food restaurants should be Taco Bell, or all stores should be Walmart. “The product is mediocre, but at least it is consistent and you know what to expect”...people are paying for a service when attending a match, so the match they attend should be able to be tailored for the tastes of the people shooting it and the people running it with considerations to unique facilities and props being given.
Perhaps it is just the nature of the beast. Look how practical pistol has spun itself off into little niches: Steel, Bianchi, IPSC, IDPA blah, blah. Where both shooters and equipment have become like specialized insects who are good at one thing only and who only expose themselves to the things they are good at as opposed to be well rounded.We should prevent the same thing from happening to 3 Gun. USPSA has a lot to learn from the outlaws and vice versa!
The nature of 3 gun prevents such specialization with good stage design…there are too many diverse scenarios a shooter can encounter to have equipment be so specialized. The primary consideration for most 3 gun shooters in equipment I think is what optic to use based on the range of targets at a match, beyond that I don’t see anything becoming that specialized.
What I do believe is the nature of the beast, is the more people involved in shooting, the more factions there will be that arise within it. Not everyone wants to shoot the same way with the same set of rules. Not everyone has the same mindset when it comes to shooting. Some people go to win, Some people go to practice deadly martial skills, Some to simply have fun, Some to beat their friends…and combinations of all of those things. One organization with one set of rules cannot service all those interests.
2) Time plus scoring vs. ComstockIMHO time plus scoring as practiced by SMM3G/Rocky Mountain 3 Gun allows for some pretty sloppy shooting. 2 Ds and you're good to go? C'mon.
I've shot all of the matches quite a bit and done well at all of them. And I am here to tell you that preparing for the time plus matches is all about SPEED, SPEED, SPEED. Accuracy is not the name of the game, especially w/ pistols. The only exception to this is the med-long range rifle shooting - something the outlaw matches deal with quite well. But other than that, accuracy has taken a back seat.
The advantage of time plus is that it is easy to use and everyone understands it - unlike Comstock.
I like Comstock scoring but if I were Caesar I would use time plus. But I would modify Enos scoring not the IMGA neutralization method. A adds no time, Major B/C adds .2 seconds, Minor B/C adds .5 sec. Major rifle and slug need only one hit, as long as it's a C or better. Or something along those lines.
Time plus scoring I think is the most simple and efficient to score..and as you said everyone easily understands it. Paladin Scoring is one option where each zone represents a certain amount of points, and 7 points are required to neutralize…again this takes time to add up.
I would be willing to concede that people using rifles with a power factor equivalent to factory .308 or more only need 1 C Zone or better or two hits anywhere to neutralized
3) Power factorI am for the use of power factors. Power should be rewarded. Or is this a game of 9mms, I mean .380s, I mean .32s, I mean .22s, I mean .177s ....
This is easily solved with stage design and the types of targets used. Use heavier steel targets if you want people to be rewarded for shooting heavier calibers. Using short barrels with lower muzzle velocity usually makes it harder to knock down steel targets on rifle stages. Using shot loads that are too light causes a shooter the same problem. Use more targets like the MGM triple dropper that take a variable number of rounds to neutralize.
I think diversity is the strength of 3 Gun Matches. Making them all uniform and cookie cutter will be the death of them. And while we are on the subject, USPSA rules and some of the arrogant people who participate in them do more to scare away new shooters from participating than anything else. In my experience new shooters are much more attracted to the simplicity of multi-gun “outlaw” matches.
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As the saying goes "if you're not growing, you're dying"...along that line we need a continuous influx of new shooters to keep the various practical action shooting sports alive.
I am curious what organizations like USPSA, etc do to attract new people to shooting competitively and how they keep them involved.
In trying to get new people involved in shooting competitively, the most common responses I hear as to why they don't want to participate are;
1) They think they don't have the "right" equipment
2) They are intimidated by the rules or procedures of the competition
3) Having seen various exceptional shooters compete, they feel as if they aren't "good enough" to even be on the range.
Something we started doing is putting on monthly Intro to Multigun classes for free at our shop. We cover safety rules, range procedures, what to expect when attending a match, and how to prepare yourself and your equipment. We emphasize that shooting competitively is a good way to test ones self and equipment, and continually impove skill at arms, only worry about doing their best, and not to worry about beating anyone except perhaps their friends for bragging rights.
Thus far all the classes we've put on have been full and 25% of the people who have attended the class, later went to a match. about 10-15% of the people who have attended the classes regularly attend local matches now.
If you're able to conduct similar classes in your area, it is probably a good idea...it removes a lot of the intimidation factor for new shooters that they would have just showing up to the range.
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...Second, we should explore the concept of a Trooper class, and see if we should *add* it - I think we would see resistance to basically eliminating HM for everyone except those people who want to carry all their gear all the time... but perhaps there is room for *both* concepts...
Bruce
If USPSA ever includes Trooper in a recognizeable form...Zak Smith owes me $50.00
Trooper Class as we created it would not work under USPSA rules...given that a shooter can use multiple firearms. There's no way to accomodate for shooters using different firearms of different power factors. If we eliminate fully open anything goes equipment and the ability to reconfigure your guns with anything you've been carrying...well half the appeal and fun of Trooper is gone.
I don't think Trooper Class would fit well within USPSA, or be readily accepted by the types of shooters attending.
We would like to incorporate Trooper into all the major non-USPSA matches. The scoring systems used will work better with it, and the people who would likely want to shoot in Trooper Class are more likely to attend these matches.
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Along the lines of some other issues I saw discussed in this thread...
Personally from all the matches I have attended I generally see two types of shooters:
1) People who shoot purely for competition, and "winning" is what they are there for.
2) People who shoot for fun and/or practical training value.
Of course there is some over lap between the two.
If it ends up being that we have a schism in 3 Gun shooting where there is a set of matches one group attends and the other does not...I can't say that would trouble me all that much. If we are increasing the number of people shooting competitively (which we should be doing), this is the natural order of things. The more people we have involved in shooting practical action matches, the more diverse we will see these matches become in terms of rules and formats.
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and dropped guns due to equipment malfunctions
that was a tough break...the only time I've seen a gun in that many pieces before during a stage is at the subgun matches with MACs launching parts off as they're being shot.
Arizona State Sub-machine Gun Championship
in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements
Posted · Edited by SinistralRifleman
The match today was a lot of fun…the weather was cool most of the time with a nice breeze. There were a total of 37 competitors at this match…Everyone shot in Modern Open, Modern Limited, and Buzzgun. There were no Classic division competitors this time.
Stages posted in the order we shot them.
All stages are shot entirely on full auto.
Stage 7: Sub-machine Gun El Presidente
6 USPSA targets at ~40 yards. Each Target must have 3 rounds on it to be neutralized.
Standing in the doorway, the shooter will engage the bottom 3 targets, reload, then engage the tope 3 targets.
Kevin:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-7-1.wmv
Me:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-7-2.wmv
Eric:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-7-3.wmv
Stage 5: Bowling Pins
7 bowling pins must be knocked down firing continuously full auto. Every time the shooter stops shooting is a 5 second penalty. Failure to nock down a pin is a 5 second penalty.
Warren:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-5-1.wmv
Dave:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-5-2.wmv
Stage 6: Shipping Raid
The outside of the stage looks like a pirate/cargo ship
12 USPSA paper targets in 3 arrays of 4 each. Two steel poppers.
The shooter runs into the ship, and engages the first target of each array with a minimum of one round, then the second targets minimum of 2, then the third targets a minimum of 3, and the fourth targets with four rounds
1-1-1
2-2-2
3-3-3
4-4-4
poppers shot whenever you like.
Me:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-6-1.wmv
Warren:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-6-2.wmv
Kevin:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-6-3.wmv
Dave:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-6-4.wmv
Stage 1: Shooter vs Shooter
2 shooters start at their tables with guns unloaded. Outside plate racks are shot weak hand, then shooters must perform mandatory reload. Inside plate racks are then shot strong hand, and the 2 paper targets must have 3 rounds to be neutralized. A mandatory reload must be performed before shooting the stop plate.
Winner gets 0 time
Loser gets 5 seconds
+ 5 seconds for targets not neutralized.
Me vs Warren. Winner = me
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-1-1.wmv
Dave vs Kevin. Winner = Dave
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-1-2.wmv
Eric vs Me. Winner = me
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-1-3.wmv
Stage 4: Pumping gas
Shooter starts with gun unloaded on back seat of car, one hand on the car and one on gas pump.
At start signal shooter engages targets on the right first 3 barrels, then advances to the second box and engages the remaining targets.
Targets must have 2 rounds each to be neutralized.
+ 5 seconds for targets not neutralized.
Warren:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-4-1.wmv
Kevin:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-4-2.wmv
Stage 3: Barrel Clearing?
There were a number of USPSA targets on this stage, each required 2 rounds, and only one could be engaged from between each port.
Warren:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-3-1.wmv
Me:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-3-2.wmv
Kevin:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-3-3.wmv
Stage 2: Lots of moving targets (a stage worthy of the San Angelo boys)
Shooter starts about 20 yards from the first shooting position. At start, shooter runs forward to box a and engaged 2 USPSA targets, one popper activator, and a swinger. Shooter moves to box B stepping on activator box to start the drop-turner target which must be engaged in box B, along with a couple more USPSA targets. Box C had another popper activator/swinger Box D had several more USPSA targets. Then the shooter activated the 3 moving targets at the back and advanced to box E…each target needed 4 rounds to be neutralized.
Warren:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-2-1.wmv
Me:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-2-2.wmv
Kevin:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-2-3.wmv
Dave:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/subgun/stage-2-4.wmv
Results to be posted later…