SinistralRifleman
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Posts posted by SinistralRifleman
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The course swerved around, went up and down hills over rocks, some of it was on a hard rock/gravel road, lots of cactus and things that will sting or bite you.
Shooting position 3: Shooting from inside a bunker/dog house kind of thing must shoot 5 steel targets and have them fall. Targets that didn't fall added to your time.
I wish I had been able to get more pictures at the competition...but it was hard to do while walking the course. As I said I was pretty damn miserable by the end of it, but I was glad I did it and actually finished the course. Some people ran the whole course, some of us walked it, some people puked on the trail or passed out when they got across the finish line.
If one were doing this to be competitive, I believe shooting in light class would be the way to go.
The rules are somewhat different this year in that the weight for Heavy doesn't count water (last year it did, so the difference between running light or heavy was minimal)...if I carried a more reasonable amount of water, that would put my load out much closer to the actual required weight.
If I were to do it again, knowing what I know now, I'd do the following:
1) carry less water than I did because I have a better idea of how much I really need...still carry more than I needed though
2) Have gatorade powder to help replenish electrolytes...we were sweating out as fast as we drank
3) More comfortable insoles for my boots
4) Have some over the counter pain killers like Tylenol or Advil with me to take ahead of time or on the course (I think a good number of competitors did this last year)
I think as long as you actually finish in this competition you're doing good...beat all the people too scared to show up
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Shooting Position 1: 5 steel targets that must fall, target must be shot off hand.
Shooting position 2:
10 scored rounds on one of the targets...how accurate you shot either subtracted or added time to your score. Shooting Position Was Free Style.
Texas Wasteland:
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Medical Support:
Pics of some of the shooters from last year:
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Is this in AZ? What major/minor city is it close to?
Pecos, Texas is where it is...Midland-Odessa is the closest "Major" Town.
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Not sure if this is the right forum to post on....or if anyone is even interested as this shooting event is different than what most of us think of as shooting competition, but here it is anyway:
From the match director:
A quick "heads up" on this years run n gun n the sun:Date: September 4 (Sunday of Labor Day Weekend). Convoy to range will leave at approximately 0700 hrs (7 am National Guard Time), Mickey's Big Hand Pointing Up and Little Hand at the 7 (Air Force Time). We are doing it on Sunday of Labor Day weekend to give our out of town competitors an extra driving day.
Basics: 5.5 miles cross country and dirt road. 3-4 shooting stations.
Light Division -- loincloth and flip flops are fine. Water provided at shooting stations.
Heavy Division -- Kit must weigh 35 pounds. Kit includes boots, ruck, rifle, ammunition, etc... but NOT H20 and you must hump your own water. Competitors in this division may not accept help along the way either (carry your own rod to remove a stuck case, etc.)
Course of Fire: We don't know. Trying to change things up this year and include one station that will be a linear range with several problems to be solved with proper application of firepower from different geographical locations. (Move, shoot, move, shoot, move and shoot, etc...) Also trying to incorporate time element into some or all of the courses of fire.
Pistols: Pistols will be legal to carry loaded and holstered. There may be a pistol element to the course, maybe just for the heavy division competitors, still working on it.
Banquet Sunday night.
Sponsors: None yet but we are hopeful. Last year Cavalry Arms, Practical Tactical and Spec Ops all sponsored the event by donating gear. First prize in both divisions was a Cav Arms AR-type polymer lower. Very nice. If you know of an outfit that might like to be associated with this event please point them my way, or vice versa.
Fee: $75 -- price includes nifty cool T-shirt, one meal at banquet and privilege of watching me puke in the desert.
Questions back to this address or call me: 432-943-4313 (Monahans) 432-445-5475 (Pecos) 432-445-5155 (Home) Take your best shot.
Smokey Briggs
Poobah of Stupid Events
Pecos Rifle Club
Not sure if we will be going this year due to other events that month. I went last year and it kicked my ass...but it was a good experience. It was hot (above 115) and humid, the terrain is rugged and you will go up and down hills over the winding course.
Round count was low...20 required shots. Some of the steel had a hard time falling, so I think I shot maybe 40 rounds. We reccomended they include an action shooting portion on the course if it was feasible, and it sounds like they are considering it. I think how long it took you to complete the course matterred more than how well you shot....some guys ran the whole way.
Last year I carried about twice as much water as I needed (2 100 oz camelbacks, and 2 1 quart canteens)...if I were to do it again I think I could plan my load out to be more efficient.
If you're within driving distance and in reasonable shape I think it's worth attending. We'll be sending some prizes along for the winners.
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If this were for a major match, I would contact that company for sponsorship and try to get them to donate one or two for each shooter, or at least sell them at a discounted price.
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Leupold CQ/T is a honest 1x-3x scope. Works really well out to about 300-350 yds. Cheapest I've seen on AR15.com was a used one for $550, otherwise they run about $600.
Leupold is making a new reticle for it that will allow the shooter to be effective with it at farther distances, and it should be easier to hit smaller targets with too...they're supposed to send me a new CQT as soon as it is available.
And then your going to send it to me right?????
No...but you will be able to send your old CQTs in for reticle upgrades.
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Leupold CQ/T is a honest 1x-3x scope. Works really well out to about 300-350 yds. Cheapest I've seen on AR15.com was a used one for $550, otherwise they run about $600.
Leupold is making a new reticle for it that will allow the shooter to be effective with it at farther distances, and it should be easier to hit smaller targets with too...they're supposed to send me a new CQT as soon as it is available.
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Your status as Operator Of The Year 2005 remains secure!
laying down the ownage with the AWP, w00t!
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A section on mag-fed shotguns would be useful, especially since certain types seem to becoming more common since the ban sunset.
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I've updated the trooper class rules to clarify some things
http://www.cavalryarms.com/3gun/trooperclass.html
Rules 4 and 7 have been added to. Rule 4 under firearms has been changed.
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Ashooter, I wouldn't get too worked up over this. One of the primary functions of this forum is rule lawyering and debate, so no one gets to an event and then is told their equipment puts them in a different category or is not allowed.
With well defined rules published ahead of time, 99% of the people will read them and understand them, so fewer arbitrary decisions will be made on the spot. Other rules may be less lenient, but they are more objective and set a clear standard for everyone to follow.
Rules continually evolve and change as more experience is gained running matches and participating in them. I suspect after you run a few of these events, you will have some changes to make yourself...it's the natural course of things.
Good luck with your match, and I give you credit for trying to get something going in your area. Everyone that owns firearms should participate in some kind of structured shooting event, I hope you can get new people shooting and involved with the sport.
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The trouble with trying to "draw the line" at military v. gamey is that the military is finally starting to catch up to the competitive shooters. For decades, the military was the driving force in firearms innovation. However, it seems that they got lost in the dust about the mid-70's and have been trying to catch up ever since. Wish I could find the recent picture of the Operator toting the AR10 with the 18" barrel, Leupold 4-14 scope on top, and the Aimpoint on the handguard at 2 o'clock...heh heh...
You're correct...most of the photos we receive from US Service Personnel or Contractors using our products, show their firearms outfitted with what would be considered Open Class equipment most of the time.
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Ashooter, the comments between your quotes are merely suggestions...because of distance I most likely will never attend your match, but here are my thoughts for the sake of discussion.
.... Basically all we're trying to do is limit equipment to stuff that can stand up to daily use and is not "impractical". If somebody wants to shoot a shotgun with an Aimpoint on it, I'm pretty sure we can "amend" the rules to deal with that. Blade-Tech dropped and offset holsters are not going to bother anybody at this deal - BUT those IPSC type holsters that basically have no front WOULD.Here's the rule we made for our 3 gun match regarding holsters...we did this for the sake of safety (because we allow handguns to be hot on the stage):
1.5.5 Due to the physically active nature of this match, holsters must be of practical carry type, duty use, or field serviceable. Holsters must either have a passive retention method (tension on the holster itself, such as Uncle Mike’s, Fobus, or Bladetech kydex holsters) or an active retention method (thumb break, flap, or rotating hood). Holsters with active retention devices, must have the retention device activated whenever the pistol is holstered.
1.5.6 Due to safety concerns with re-holstering hot pistols, the use of “race gun” type holsters is prohibited. Race gun holsters include, but are not limited to, CR Speed, Ghost Holster, or Hogue. Range Officers and the Match Director will have the final say in regards to the suitability of any holster for use in this match.
1.5.7 No shoulder holsters, or cross draw holsters allowed due to safety concerns
Or shotguns with 24 inch barrels and umpteen round magazines -- You must admit they are kinda silly for anything BUT 3-gun shooting.If you don't want people using these, the answer is simple...engineer courses of fire where it is a disadvantage to have a barrel and magazine tube that long. Make them shoot through ports, around obstacles, go through tight corridors.
The only rule I would have for the sake of safety is a maximum length the magazine tube can extend beyond the barrel.
Magazine fed shotguns are specifically designed for combat, whether it be a Saiga or USAS-12...let people use them. If you want to make it more difficult for these guys to discourage their use, have courses of fire where they must switch back and forth between slugs and shot several times. They either then must preload their magazines to match up with how they shoot the stage, or constantly change magazines.
Look guys, we're not trying to tick anybody off or rule anybody out. We're open minded about this stuff, but we want a SAFE match and a match where we use equipment that is not specifically tailored for this type of "game" but more for "real world" use.I think one of the biggest benefits of 3 gunning is it serves as a valuable arena for testing and evaluation of new firearms technology that can later be adapted to real world use. Design your match in such a way that inferior equipment will fail through lack of reliability or endurance. If your guns run 100%, you will sometimes beat people of superior skill level when their equipment breaks.
Let people use whatever they want, but there are no alibis for equipment breakage. You could even go so far as to say that any malfunction that takes the shooter more than 15 seconds to clear will cause them to DNF the stage (call it a dead man's gun penalty), at which point all the targets will be assessed as failures to engage and misses or whatever penalties you are using.
Can somebody give me an idea for a better set of equipment rules, that fits the goal I'm trying to reach as stated above without requiring 20 pages of "legalese"????I'm open minded (sort of)
Check out our rules:
http://www.cavalryarms.com/3gun/trooperclass.html
http://www.cavalryarms.com/3gun/3gunrules.html
Also check out Rocky Mountain's rules.
Adapt them to your purposes
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Aaron,
please give us a call at your convenience, we are interested in sponsoring and attending the match. Ask to talk to Russell or Shawn 480-833-9685.
---Russell Phagan
Cavalry Arms Staff
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The spirit of the rules seems somewhat contradictory...no seperate categories for types of firearms used, because the real world is not fair...yet then limitations placed on the types of equipment used.
I think you guys should read our trooper class rules if "the world is not fair" is what you are going for...use whatever you want, you just have to carry it all, if it breaks you better have spare parts to fix it on you. Engineer the match and courses of fire to be such that through use "gamey" equipment has the potential to fail. The only types of equipment I would disallow would be because of safety concerns.
Many types of equipment that are "gamey", are later adapted and adopted for real world use.
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Just got back home this morning...I have over 900 pictures, and 4 hours of video from the match. Photo gallery should be up this weekend, I will most likely edit the video into a music video montage of some kind.
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What would you guys want to see most on it?
How to use the shotgun for maximum effectiveness combatting the undead (zombies).
I have been discontent with the other training films I have seen on the subject, as the protagonists are always all killed.
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Who from the forum is going to Ironman?
We're heading to Idaho Tuesday Night.
We're bringing $10,000 in prizes, as well as prizes donated by Spec Ops Brand, Defense Solutions Group, and Falcon Industries.
We're also bring a 9mm subgun, and a .45 ACP CAV-15 (uses grease gun magazines) that will be used on one of the stages.
Looking forward to shooting the match and seeing everyone there.
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Anybody got a fix or retrofit for the trap door on the stock? It's cheesy and opens accidentally. I trimmed the tab but that didn't help.
Does anybody make a magazine release button extension?
A1 or A2 Buttplates and trap doors will work with the CAV-15.
The buttplate that comes with it, must have the trap door latch actively pushed back up into place to remain closed once its been opened.
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Well we have 6 trooper class shooters for Ironman registered, doing better than Heavy Metal/He-Man though only one shooter registered.
Anyone who shoots Ironman in Trooper Class and completes the match shooting it in Trooper Class will receive a free entry to the Cavalry Arms 3 Gun Match in Waco September 30th-October 2nd 2005.
If you want to change classes, call MGM so they can have you resquadded. All trooper class shooters will shoot on the same squad.
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I got the actual round count today
Precision Rifle: 10 (optional)
Rifle: 341 (add 10 if you do not use precision rifle)
Slugs: 102
Shot: 233
Pistol: 381
I plan on bringing at least 100% more than that. Pistol seems to always be what you need more of than anything else extra.
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We had a lot of fun there...lots of unique stages. Glad we came out.
Pecos Run-n-gun Biathalon
in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements
Posted
Equipment is unlimited in both Light and Heavy classes, heavy simply specifies the amount of weight you must carry and no assistance/water resupply during the course.
Last year the guy that won was active duty army and he RAN the whole course. His adjusted time with shooting bonuses was around 1 hour...I think his actual run time was close to 1:20. The rifle he shot was an SKS he borrowed from someone.