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SinistralRifleman

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    Arizona State Sub-machine Gun Championship

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    The Famous Sam’s Arizona State Subgun Match

    SEVEN STAGES TO TEST YOUR EVERYDAY SUBGUN SHOOTING SKILLS

    The benefits of Subguns in the solutions to everyday problems

    Date: October 29, 2005    Walk through: 8:00 am, Start shooting 9:00 am

    Modern Open - Post WWII with optics

    Modern Limited - Post WWII iron sights

    Classic - WWII or earlier any configuration

    Buzz Gun - Gun runs faster than 1000 RPM

    Location: Rio Salado Sportsmen’s Club - Mesa, Arizona  Match Fees:  Pre-register by October 1 - $20.00,  after October 1 - $25.00

    Don't have a subgun?

    Rent one from Cavalry Arms!

    We have a number of Colt pattern 9mm Sub-Machine Guns, one .45 ACP CAV-16, and one CZ26 7.62x25mm. Cost to rent for the match is $40.00...you provide your own ammo. With the exception of the CZ, all ammunition must be new US manufacture, not reloads...winchester white box value pack ammo runs great in all the guns.

    Cavalry Arms 3gun Match Report

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    Here's the stage descriptions for those that weren't there:

    Stage 1: Long Range Engagement-300 yard line

    Firearms: Rifle

    Targets: One B-27 Target at 300 yards.

    Start Position: Rifle unloaded, bolt may be locked back, safety on, lying on the ground or pre-positioned with bipod deployed (open or trooper class), or resting on shooting bag/rucksack (Tactical Iron, or Tactical Scope). Shooter is standing behind rifle.

    Course Description:

    At start signal, targets will be raised. Shooter will advance to his/her rifle load it and begin firing at their target.

    Shooter is limited to 60 rounds only for this course of fire. Feeding devices of a capacity greater than 60 rounds will not be allowed in this stage for the sake of keeping everyone honest.

    After 120 Seconds, targets will be lowered.

    A Perfect Score on this stage is 0 Time. The shooter will receive a 5 second penalty for any hit missing from the total 60 required on the black area. Bullets must break the edge of the black or be inside of it to score.

    Stage 2: Shotgoonery II

    Firearms: Shotgun

    Targets: 30 Clays, 5 paper targets (must be engaged with slugs once each).

    Start Position: Shotgun Fully Loaded, safety on, at low ready. Shooter is behind either barricade 1 or barricade 5.

    Course Description:

    At start signal shooter will begin engaging clays or slug targets. One slug must hit one of the 5 slug targets from behind every barricade (an unlimited number of slugs may be fired from behind every barricade to hit the target); a minimum of 5 slugs is required for this stage. Clays may be shot from behind any barricade, however at least one must be engaged and hit from behind every barricade.

    If a shooter fails to engage one of the slug targets from each position, it will be counted as an un-hit target per 6.1.2-F (25 seconds). Slug targets cannot be made up by engaging them again from another position. If a shooter does not engage and hit at least one clay target per barricade it will be a procedural penalty per 6.1.9 (10 seconds). Clays may not be shot with slugs, doing so may damage the clay holders. Damaging a clay holder by firing a slug at it is a 60 second penalty, and the shooter must pay for the target holder.

    Transitioning is only allowed in the event the shooter’s shotgun becomes inoperable (cannot reasonably be cleared), or breaks. Transitioning is not allowed if the shooter failed to carry enough shot shells on them to complete the stage.

    Stage 3: Jailbreak II

    Firearms: Shotgun and Pistol

    Targets: 20 steel Targets

    Start Position: Shooter is locked in jail cell, no ammunition or firearms on their person. Shotgun staged by guard’s chair outside cell, magazine loaded*, chamber empty. Any shotgun ammunition to be used must be in shotgun or on shotgun. Pistol staged on table magazine inserted, chamber empty, slide forward. All pistol reloads must come off the table.

    *any shells not in the actual chamber, but in the gun or feeding device will count as the magazine being loaded

    Course Description:

    At start signal shooter will retrieve key and unlock padlock on the jail cell. Shooter will then retrieve shotgun and engage 5 steel targets before moving forward to table with handgun staged on it. Shooter may then engage the remaining steel targets from behind the fault lines with shotgun or pistol as they see fit. If shotgun is to be grounded, it must be placed on table facing down range, safety on. If the safety is not on, it will be a 60 second penalty. When shotgun is grounded, it must have an empty chamber and empty magazine, if the shotgun is not unloaded it will result in a stage DQ (200 seconds + 25 seconds per target on the stage).

    Stage 4: Zombie Apocalypse

    Firearms: Shooter may use firearms of their discretion on this stage with the following limitations

    1) Steel Targets may only be shot with Pistol Calibers or Shot Shells

    2) Paper Targets may only be shot with Pistol Calibers, Rifle calibers, or shotgun slugs

    Targets: 18 Paper, 18 Steel

    Start Position: Shooter Standing in start box at low ready. Firearm loaded safety on. Any pre-staged firearms at shooting positions B and C may have magazines loaded, but chambers must be empty.

    Course Description:

    The dead have risen, to kill them again you must shoot them in the head. All paper targets on this stage must have at least 1 hit above the neck line. All steel targets are representative of head sized shots.

    All shots fired on this stage must be done behind the tombstones or tables at each shooting position.

    Shooter may pre-stage guns and ammunition on the tables at shooting positions B and C if they choose. Guns pre-positioned may have loaded magazines, but chambers must be empty. If a firearm is to be grounded at a table it must have an empty chamber and empty magazine. If a grounded firearm is not unloaded, it will result in a stage DQ (200 seconds + 25 seconds per target on the stage. Shooter may begin the stage with slung long guns to use later, so long as the firearm is unloaded and safe.

    At start signal shooter will advance to position A and engage targets Z1-Z8. Shooter will then advance to position B and engage S1-S18. Shooter will then advance to position C and engage Z9-Z18

    Stage 5: Hose-Fest

    Firearms: Rifle, Shotgun, and Pistol

    Targets: 8 White Steel (Pistol), 8 Green Steel (Shotgun), 8 Paper (Rifle)

    Start Position: All firearms on table, magazines loaded chambers empty, shooter has hands at sides.

    Course Description: White steel targets to be shot with handgun, Green steel targets to be shot with shotgun, paper targets to be shot with rifle. At start signal shooter will begin engaging the targets with the corresponding firearms in any order they choose. When firearms are grounded on the table, they must be empty in chamber and magazine. If a grounded firearm is not unloaded, it will result in a stage DQ (200 seconds + 25 seconds per target on the stage.

    Stage 6: Chopper Rescue

    Firearms: Rifle and Handgun

    Targets: 6 Steel (rifle), 4 steel (pistol), 13 paper (rifle/pistol).

    Start position: Rifle loaded, safety on, low ready, muzzle outside chopper door. Handgun holstered and hot. Shooter is seated inside chopper.

    Course Description: At Start signal shooter will engage the 6 steel rifle targets at the back of the bay with one hit each, using any shooting position inside the chopper. Shooter may then engage any paper targets visible from the inside chopper with rifle. Shooter will then clear rifle and put it on the rack inside the chopper. Shooter will then exit the chopper, advance down the course shooting any previously unengaged paper targets. Shooter will engage the four steel pistol targets anywhere behind the fault line. Shooter will then holster their sidearm and retrieve the “wounded armored vehicle crewman” carrying him in the Kifaru pack back to the chopper. The dummy must be placed inside the chopper, and the shooter will then retrieve their rifle, load it, and engage the 6 steel targets again from inside the chopper.

    Failure to bring the “wounded armored vehicle crewman” back to the chopper is a 60 second penalty.

    Any shots fired with the rifle outside the chopper will be assessed as a procedural penalty under 6.1.8 (10 seconds per shot fired).

    Stage 7: Wounded

    Firearms: Handgun Only (or pistol caliber carbine (trooper class shooters)

    Targets: 12 Steel Plates

    Start Position: Shooter is seated on ground. Shooter must keep strong hand on chest on in pocket. Pistol has slide locked back or cylinder open and is lying approximately 6 feet away. All magazines/speedloaders must be in pouches/carriers.

    Course Description: At start signal, shooter will get up and retrieve handgun. Advance to table, and load handgun in whatever manner they wish using only their weak hand. ALL SAFETY RULES STILL APPLY. Shooter will engage 12 steel plates weak hand only, reloading as necessary, weak hand only.

    Any manipulation of the of the handgun with the strong hand will result in a procedural penalty under 6.1.9 (10 seconds), any shots fired with the strong hand touching the handgun will be a procedural penalty under 6.1.8 (10 seconds per shot fired).

    Stage 8: Condition White

    Firearms: Handgun and Rifle

    Targets: 12 Paper, 2 MGM Whirly Gigs (5 plates each), 2 MGM Triple Droppers

    Start Position: Seated at Table cleaning rod in pistol barrel, slide locked back or cylinder open, hand must be on cleaning rod. Rifle is locked in pelican case, magazine removed.

    Stage Procedure:

    At start signal, shooter will remove cleaning rod from the handgun’s barrel, make hot and engage the steel targets. All steel targets must be shot with pistol caliber weapons; anyone other than Trooper Class shooters that elect to use a pistol caliber carbine for their rifle on this stage will engage all the steel targets with their handgun. Trooper Class shooters must engage at least one steel target with their handgun if they elect to use pistol caliber carbines on this stage. All shots fired at the steel, must be fired from behind the door/entryway. After at least one target has been engaged, shooter may holster handgun, and retrieve key for the pelican case from pocket or pouch and unlock the case load and make rifle hot. The shooter will then advance through the course, staying on the white rocks. All shots at the paper targets must be fired from the white rocks.

    If a shooter fails to fire at least one round from either rifle or pistol it will be assessed as a procedural penalty under 6.1.9 (10 Seconds).

    If a shooter goes forward of the door/entryway while shooting handgun, it will be assessed as a procedural penalty under 6.1.8 (10 seconds per shot fired).

    If an MGM triple dropper does not fall all the way, it will be assessed as a target hit, but not neutralized penalty under 6.1.2d (10 seconds)

    Stage 9: Friend or Foe: X’s and O’s

    Firearms: Rifle and Handgun

    Targets: 20 White Paper, 20 Brown Paper

    Start Position: Rifle Loaded Safety on at low ready, Handgun holstered and hot. Shooter Must begin with rifle and finish with pistol.

    Start Procedure:

    RO will have the shooter make their firearms ready, ask the shooter if they are ready…upon acknowledgment, RO will flip a coin to determine which targets the shooter will engage.

    RO will call out what the hostile targets are, immediately give the commands for shooter ready, stand by, and activate the start signal.

    Course Description: At start signal shooter will begin engaging either Brown only or White only depending on what the RO called. Shooter must fire at least one rifle round, and at least one pistol round during this course of fire. When the shooter transitions, they must clear the rifle, put it on safe and sling it. The shooter will engage targets as they become visible, staying within the fault lines.

    If a shooter hits a non-hostile target, it will be assessed as a no-shoot penalty per 6.1.4 (25 Seconds).

    If a shooter fails to fire at least one round from either rifle or pistol it will be assessed as a procedural penalty under 6.1.9 (10 Seconds).

    Stage 10: Kill-House

    Start Position: Shotgun Loaded with 2 Rounds Birdshot, safety on, muzzle on breaching door. Handgun holstered and hot.

    Course Description:

    This stage is shot at night, use of weapons mounted lights is highly encouraged.

    At start signal shooter will begin by breaching door by firing birdshot into the “lock”. Shooter may then make entry and may engage whatever targets are visible in the first room with remaining shot shell. If the shooter does not breach the door successfully with the shotgun, they may kick it in. Once shooter has engaged targets in the first room or used their 2 shot shells, they must clear their shotgun (lock bolt open) and sling it. All other targets will be engaged with pistol.

    Only RO’s and assistant RO’s will reset this stage.

    Cavalry Arms 3 Gun Match

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted · Edited by SinistralRifleman

    in addition to the prizes we already have...

    I Just got word from Leupold today, they are sending 2 MKIV 1.5-5X scopes for prizes.

    Brownells is contributing enough of their AR15 magazines so every shooter will get one in their shooter's bag

    LaRue is sending 10 gift certificates worth up to $300.00 each.

    Sabre Defence is sending 2 Upper Receivers we will use to build complete rifles

    Cavalry Arms 3 Gun Match

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    How many Trooper class shooters are there so far signed up. I know last year there was only 10 or so.

    Trooper class is the second most popular class this year, Tactical Scope being the most popular by far.

    Tactical Iron has only 2 shooters signed up so far

    Open only has 3 signed up so far.

    More registrations are coming in daily though...so that may change. If you want a guaranteed 3rd place in your class consider signing up for Tac-Iron right now! :P

    Cavalry Arms 3 Gun Match

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    There are a few changes to the match

    Change 1

    The “Aggressor” targets will not be ready in time for the match this year. As a result we will be using USPSA targets. We have also accordingly changed the rule 6.1.1

    6.1.1 previously read:

    6.1.1 Any cardboard target, designated as a "shoot" target must have either one (1)"A" hit OR two (2) hits anywhere. At least 50% of the bullet hole must break the edge of the target or the scoring area to count.

    6.1.1 now reads:

    6.1.1 Any cardboard target, designated as a "shoot" target must have either one (1)"A" hit OR two (2) hits anywhere. The bullet hole must be inside of or break the edge of the perforation for the scoring zone to count.

    Change 2

    Trooper Class shooters may use pistol caliber carbines or sub-machine

    guns to engage both rifle and pistol targets. If the stage description says

    they must use a pistol or transition between pistol and rifle, they must still

    do so. The shooter must inform the RO of their intentions before they shoot the stage.

    Beta Mags

    in Multi-gun Gear & Accessories

    Posted

    Betas feed slower than regular USGI magazines. When I was using one with our machine guns last year, I had to go to a heavier buffer to slow the action down enough so that the magazine would feed in time with the cycling of the action. I sold it after I had the feed tower crack twice from use that wasn't very hard at all.

    As low mass carriers and lighter buffers are commonly used by 3 Gunners, I would be willing to guess that malfunctions were probably a combination of the beta mags not being able to keep up with the cycling of the bolt, and lack of maintenance.

    Rocky Mtn 3 Gun Proposals

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    Also, why not let the shooters shoot what they want and decide what gun they want to shoot on a course of fire? OMG freestyle shooting??? Better watch out, that allows creativity and the GAMERS will probably win even more matches - wait umm they win all of them now.

    I agree with you on letting shooters decide what guns they want to use on a course of fire...this would make competitions more interesting IMHO as there are now many more different ways to solve the same problem. We have a few stages planned for the Waco match this year, that will be like this.

    The only limitations would be steel targets under X yards may only be shot with pistol calibers or shot, steel targets over X yards may be shot with rifle or slug. Paper targets could be shot with slug, pistol, or rifle (so you don't have to replace them every other shooter if blasted with bird or buck shot).

    Rocky Mtn 3 Gun Proposals

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    Nationals are coming up.  Shoot Open using L10/Tactical/Limited gear.  You can get a taste of how the "pursuit" can sour if you don't have the right gear and/or $.

    I don't shoot USPSA matches, but I often shoot open class at 3 gun or multi-gun matches that don't have trooper class, just so I can use whatever equipment I want to...that equipment typically being a bipod, or a dot sight on my shotgun. If I beat anyone in open class I usually think I am doing OK if I am not running completely open equipment.

    One of my friends shot Open at RM3G this year so he could use his SPRish rifle (dual optics and bipod), his other two guns were a stock Glock 17 and a Remington 870 with Iron sights. He still beat some people in Open...a job well done if they're using Dot Sighted Comped Pistols and Tec-Loaders on their shotguns.

    the subject of running a stage with your pistol on and hot so as to be able to transition to it in the event that you wanted to or had to was brought up. 

    how much easier is it to shoot stage 8 at this years match not having to reload, i know i can shoot a handgun much faster and reload much faster than i can with a shotgun. and the difficulty of the clays, would not compensate for the ability to reload and shoot faster.

    IMHO, if you are going to allow the shooter to transition to their handgun, due to malfunctions or ammo limitations, then something should be done to keep the GAMERS from taking advantage of the situation.

    trapr

    Transitioning should not be allowed because someone failed to carry enough ammunition during the stage

    Transitioning to gain an unfair competitive advantage should also not be allowed...your gun should really be broken, blown up, or otherwise inoperable to warrant changing to the other gun.

    The other option is to design stages that are flexible and allow the shooter to play to their strengths. Require a minimum number of shot shells fired, at which point the shooter can switch to their sidearm if they so choose...or designate all clays must be engaged with shot, all steel targets can be engaged with pistol or shot.

    Rocky Mtn 3 Gun Proposals

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    Well you got juice with the Cav Arms match in Texas.  Why not for next year you guys have no divisions and see how it goes?  Compare your turn-out this and past years' matches with the next one in 2006.  The results would be interesting to see.

    My point was more so that arguing over what equipment should be in various divisions is more likely to give yourself a aneurism than actually accomplish anything.

    As it is right now most of the sign ups for our match are in Tactical Scope, followed by Trooper Class as a close second....the number of shooters signed up in Open and Tactical Iron is very small. This may change as more people send in applications (I think many were waiting until after RM3G to get around to it from what I heard them say at the match)...but I think it to be unlikely. People who go to shoot for fun and the "pursuit of excellence" (to steal the phrase from John of JP) will shoot regardless of the classes, divisions, or categories available.

    In arguing over equipment divisions like we are, I think we are in a way saying equipment is more important than skill. Sometimes I think we use these equipment divisions as a way to keep people of better skill from "officially" beating us...if an Iron sight shooter does better than an tac scope shooter, or an open class shooter what does that say? I think it says equipment really doesn't matter as much as skill. KellyN regularly trounces us all at local matches shooting iron sights against scoped or open rifles and shotguns. I believe I heard from the Stage 8 ROs that KurtM came within 3 seconds of the fastest open class time on that stage loading shotshells by hand?....we'll have to wait for the results to see.

    I'd be just as content if the match results listed all the equipment a shooter used, as I am now with different divisions.

    There are round limitations with Tactical shotgun and He-Man rifle.  I don't see why it would be "stupid" to limit the rounds in Tactical rifle.

    Because as I said, it self regulates...is a Beta Mag an advantage when the feed tower cracks or it doesn't feed as fast as the bolt cycles causing malfunctions? If someone wants to put the effort into making one work reliably and rolling the dice every time they shoot, I say let them.

    Rocky Mtn 3 Gun Proposals

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    Limiting feeding device capacity for rifle in tactical scope would be stupid. Higher capacity feeding devices have their own limitations, one of them being decreased reliability. Joe Sledge told me half the people that shot his stage using Beta Mags, had constant malfunctions....this is in line with my personal experience with Beta Mags as well. If you want to gamble and use equipment that is less reliable, that is up to you.

    This entire argument about what should and shouldn't be allowed in various classess is just pushing me to believe there shouldn't be any classess. You show up and shoot what you have and you place based on your level of skill with the equipment you are using. I would perhaps give secondary awards to the fastest pump gun shooter, iron sight shooter, and Battle Rifle cartrdige shooter...other placements would simply be overall results only. I've seen the results from our local matches where Tactical Iron shooters beat Open class shooters regularly. This strongly leads me to believe that skill matters much more than equipment.

    I would be all for allowing anyone shooting a real battle rifle cartrdige, i.e. 7.62 NATO, .30-06, 8mm Mauser, etc. only having to put one round anywhere on a paper target to consider it neutralized...that's the only distinction I would make in equipment. All other differences between firearms, calibers, sights, accessories, etc. may or may not be an advantage at all based upon stage design.

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