SinistralRifleman
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Posts posted by SinistralRifleman
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Installed the Firebird magwell on my new Saiga yesterday. I still need to weld an optic rail on and some other minor things before I start using this one and retire the old Saiga. Thus far it seems promising.
http://www.cavalryarms.com/guns/firebird1.jpg
http://www.cavalryarms.com/guns/firebird2.jpg
http://www.cavalryarms.com/guns/firebird3.jpg
http://www.cavalryarms.com/guns/firebird4.jpg
http://www.cavalryarms.com/guns/firebird5.jpg
It came with a slot machined for the mag catch on the left side so I switched it over because I am left handed. I can now use my trigger finger to release the mag, knock the old one out with the fresh mag and then rock and lock it in. Previously I was unable to knock the empty mag out with the fresh one because there isn't enough space between the trigger guard and mag catch on a converted saiga to get in and hit it with the fresh mag like you can with an AK.
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BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING go shoot 100 rounds through it to make sure it works. There's no reason to start putting money in it if it doesn't run. There are a lot of guns with misaligned gas ports floating around. Easy enough to fix if you want to, but better to find out before you bolt a bunch of other stuff onto it. Personally if it doesn't run out of the box, send it back and get another one.
You can do a basic conversion for about $150; this includes new stock set, Tromix Trigger Guard, and Fire control. The next thing is a better sighting system; either a rail to mount optics or the Kreb's Iron sights. AK builder.com has a winchoke adapter if you want to use choke.
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If someone has super human pistol skills as those guys do it is an advantage. For mere mortals I still contend something with a stock and longer sight radius or optics will generally be more advantageous to use.
A rifle should always be more accurate than shooting a pistol. It's also going to be a lot easier when fatigued.
Putting down steel with a shotgun is more of a sure thing, again particularly when fatigued, and even some of the t00ber shooters on my squad elected to use shotguns more for that reason. Is taking 3-4 shots to knock down a steel due to misses or marginal hits really faster than one solid hit with a shotgun?
The Uzi holds as many rounds as my Glock, it's just easier to shoot accurately after sprinting up to a couple hundred yards because it has a stock. Having a red dot also speeds aiming particularly from awkward positions. It may transition target to target slower (I haven't put this on the clock), but I have way more first round hits.
It's really about the individual shooter ability. If some people want to solve all the problems with their pistols, great. It certainly takes a lot more skill for them to do so. I'll still use my long guns
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The ability to use my shotgun or rifle instead of a pistol would give me an advantage over those people who insist on using their pistols. Using my shotgun to maximum effect at Ironman 2008 is one reason I won trooper division and placed 15th/133 over all, and in 2009 using my Shotgun and Uzi wherever I could instead of a pistol again helped me win trooper division and place 17/140 over all.
I seriously don't understand where this perception that its such a huge advantage to use a pistol is coming from. I suppose it might be if all the targets are 10 yards or less, but show me a multi-gun match where that is the case?
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Jim's magwell arrives to me tomorrow, looking forward to trying it out.
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If one were to poke around YouTube, you might just be able to find a video of the CMMG booth at some show, probably the SHOT show.
In that video, they show a prototype of an AR style platform that is designed to shoot shotgun shells.
That one might be out this summer...but I am guessing more like another year.
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The Gun Control Act of 1968 makes companies fearful of producing a detach mag fed shotguns...
Why? You may ask
The GCA of 1968 established that anything with a bore of greater than 1/2" is a destructive device, subject to the NFA, registration and tax. Shotguns with "sporting purposes" were exempted from this.
What is a "sporting purpose"?
Traditional hunting, trap, and skeet shooting. 3 Gun, Multi-Gun, USPSA, IPSC are considered to be "Combat Games" by the government and are not sporting purposes. The secretary of the treasury determines what is suitable for sporting purposes and can declare shotguns DDs by manufacturer and model number.
This is why the USAS-12, Striker-12, and a few others were declared DDs; they were not suitable for sporting purposes. Magazine capacity, weight, and appearance were all considered in that ruling. In one court case IPSC type matches were specifically mentioned and the government said those aren't "sporting"
So why does the SAIGA-12 get away with not being a DD?
It is imported in a sporting configuration; the configuration it comes in and is sold by the manufacturer is suitable for hunting deer, and with a magazine plug Fowl. All the mods to make them into guns suitable for our sport are done by gunsmiths or individuals. Make no mistake, at some future date it could arbitrarily be made a DD.
So why aren't US manufactures making a mag fed shotgun?
Its an uncertain investment. Who wants to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on R&D only to be told its a DD, limiting sales potential. DDs are banned in many states, and if not banned customers still have to go through the NFA paperwork which turns a lot of people off by not being able to take their gun home the same day they paid for it.
Secondly shotguns are used less and less by military and police forces outside of breaching roles and less lethal.
How could a US manufacturer make a mag fed shotgun that is unlikely to be considered a DD?
1) Only sell a gun with a traditional stock, no pistol grip.
2) Factory magazines are only 5 rounds
3) DO NOT market a variant to law enforcement or the military
4) DO NOT offer any tactical accessories for it yourself; let third parties do that.
5) Make the design capable of being a pump so it can be sold in states with assault weapons bans, and if/when the semi auto becomes a DD release the pump model as a non-DD.
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I want stages where you have the option of shoot out to 500 yards, or you can advance forward 200 yards on the clock and engage them closer if you think that will help you.
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I would be more in favor of .22 rifle only or .22 pistol/rifle matches and just leave the shotgun out of it.
Phoenix rod and gun has run a few .22 rimfire matches:
Thanks a ton and great video! I learned lots about set-up and layout from watching it. Doesn't look as if your group had any issues with timers. What do you use? Also, the long range shot was interesting. What is the longest shot at the match? Did any of your shooters use conversion kits on their AR's? If so, did they suffer from lack of accuracy?
Kyle
Anything with a barrel longer than 16" had a hard time being registered by the shot clock, it was too quiet. We would often click the back of the time on last shot fired. Not ideal, but the .22s just aren't loud enough.
I don't think anyone using .22 conversion for AR suffered from lack of accuracy. Not having malfunctions was the main thing that helped people equipment wise; malfunctions with some .22s really destroyed people's scores.
I think the longest shot at that match was 30 yards. I think that they ran another one with shots to 50 yards.
Stages were a combination of steel challenge 3 runs for score, and field courses.
Because .22s don't recoil much or have any muzzle climb to speak of 3 hits were required per paper target to neutralize.
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I would be more in favor of .22 rifle only or .22 pistol/rifle matches and just leave the shotgun out of it.
Phoenix rod and gun has run a few .22 rimfire matches:
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I used a pistol gripped M3 for a couple years and never had any issued with it.
Remember if your gun goes to crap on a stage, switching to pump is an immediate action drill.
It doesn't have one of the screw on/bolt through side saddles does it? Those can pinch the receiver and mess things up.
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Mark, go with the FN SLP and have an XRail fitted. Thacker had one at Ft Benning, seemed to run fine.
I heard him discussing Uber failure of it on Stage 2 with some people after it happened. Looks neat, has a ways to go though.
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Shooting in the rain at ironman:
rifle portion starts at 0:50I did have trouble seeing the dueling tree out there through my scope with the rain obscuring it, that was about it.
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Here's the real question; Is an Open pistol even that much of an advantage in Open in 3 Gun? Is having an optic really that much of an advantage vs capacity and maybe compensation alone?
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my POV cam footage of stage 3 is pretty sweet, I'll have my video up later tonight hopefully.
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In this situation, the weapon should have been able to be put on "safe" and abandoned in a barrel or box.
In the case of an AK type gun, if the bolt is partially back with a round jammed between the bolt carrier and barrel extension the gun cannot be put on safe.
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We'll we're hitting the road from AZ....see you all there.
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Hope this isn't some hate the humans, love the rain forest holly-weirdness lesson because the technology really looks impressive.
Jim
Got a bit of that from the trailer....evil capatalistic miners need to move a village of natives becasue they live on top of the biggest deposit of ore...only trouble is they don't want to move
Saw the extended trailer. Definitely more education coming from the land of make believe. Just hate seeing that. I'm holding out hope, though not very much, that their will be some good story telling. Can producers be that stupid? I mean spending something like 200 million on the project and $39.95 for the screenplay. Crazy.
Jim
My Prediction is Dances with Wolves + Aliens = Avatar. Or Fern Gully in Outer-space.
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How do they handle trooper class at the ironman?
All troopers are squadded together so we can make sure no one breaks the rules intentionally or unintentionally. Honestly unintentionally (someone not thinking about it and accepting food from another competitor is a prime example) is more of a concern, because the type of people who decide to do trooper want to do it for real; finishing in that division honestly at Ironman is an accomplishment in itself.
If we do catch you intentionally cheating, we will lock you in the port-a-john and throw a CS grenade down the air vent. No, I'm not joking.
Our ammo count is limited only by what we can carry and what fits in the cache can (cache can for Ironman only). I generally take enough ammo to shoot the match twice at least. My initial load out is 140 pounds total.
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Joe4d - Add a couple of steel clay flippers and slug targets....guess what....bring your shotgun!
Yes, you can make it beneficial to use with the types of targets presented. Flying clays would obviously have to be nothing but shotgun.
Nik and Charles - You guys are sadistic funny! Give Trooper class a go at the Ironman if you would like to be restricted on the number of rounds you have for the entire match. Guys/gals who shoot in that class really have to manage their ammo.Bring it on, I need more competition! You guys aren't going to let me win Trooper there for a 3rd time in a row are you?
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Anyone got any real way to motivate people to use the shotgun when given a choice?
MLM
I really see nothing wrong with people shooting their shotguns empty and switching to handguns. I however would use my Saiga-12 as much as possible on any given stage. I have used it in lieu of pistol on A LOT of targets at Ironman the past 2 years on the freestyle stages. The reward is that a shotgun hit is almost a certainty in making a target go down in one shot; where a pistol may take several because of the nature of the targets or the physical fatigue at that point in the stage.
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Weird that some of you would take a pistol. I'll always use a rifle given the opportunity; particularly if scoring is accuracy based. Head shots only past 10 yards, definitely rifle. More than 10 targets; again definitely rifle due to capacity. Any kind of physical stress to get heart rate up before shooting; again definitely rifle. If given the opportunity the only time I'd use a pistol at a match would be when either my shotgun or rifle had been shot empty and use it for an immediate transition.
If you want to force people to use both guns, just have the stage description say "The shooter will fire at least one round from both pistol and rifle at a target before the end of the stage"
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unless it is a safety issue why limit clay to shot only and why not allow 50 yard steel to be shot at with a pistol ?
That would be stage dependent I suppose. I figured clays would be good as shot only for 2 reasons; coming off pigeon flippers no one would shoot up into the air with anything else, secondly force people to use shotgun for at least a few targets.
FB3G Match-What did you think about the ACR?
in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements
Posted
I didn't even use the sights it was so close not enough experience to really say much about it. I did like the adjustable stock design, but I thought the railed for end was wider than ideal.