SinistralRifleman
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Posts posted by SinistralRifleman
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Match poster/info here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/ceramicgod/ACTS-WWII.png
Pima Pistol Club August 21st sign in at 8:30.
$15.00 for non-PPC members.
I was inspired to edit some classic propaganda posters...
OFFICIAL RULES POST
There will be a few specialized "scoring divisions" for competitors using WWII era firearms.
If you have a WWII rifle but not a WWII period pistol, bring your regular pistol and we'll have a solution so that you can compete in the WWII division.
For our purposes, WWII firearms will include anything designed and issued between 1903 and 1945. If you have a "modernized" 1911, that's ok, we'll include that as a WWII pistol, for example. Or if you have a Walther P1 (instead of a true P38), that'd be accepted. If you have a recently manufactured M1 Garand from Springfield, or a M1 Carbine replica, that'd qualify as well... Rifles/carbines with WWII actions but sporterized stocks are acceptable!
The M1 carbine will be categorized as a PCC/Subgun for this match. As a result, will need to use it as your only gun and shoot in the "PCC/Subgun only" category.
We will have divisions for:
WWII rifle + WII sidearms (or modern sidearm loaded to WWII capacity)
Semi-Auto WWII rifle + WII sidearms (or modern sidearm loaded to WWII capacity)
WWII PCC/Subgun ONLY (no pistol required as subgun can be used for pistol portions as well)
*** "Modern" subguns/PCC will not be accepted in this division, however the M1 Carbine is being included in this division as a PCC.
All standard ACTS divisions.
Again, please no AP/steel core ammo!
We don't normally enumerate exact round counts for certain specific reasons, but for this match, given the nature of the guns & ammo, we're doing so:
Here's the MINIMUM BASE level round count depending on which category you're shooting in:
(This is if you shoot clean and NEVER MISS one shot)
WWII rifle & pistol:
Rifle = 62
Pistol = 32
SemiAuto WW2 Rifle & Pistol:
Rifle = 62
Pistol = 32
Subgun ONLY (no pistol):
SMG = 176 rounds
All standard ACTS divisions:
Rifle = 124
Pistol = 32
No AP/steel core ammo!
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We're running a WW2 Themed match at AZ ACTS this month: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111143
The stages will all be based on WW2 events, with special categories for WW2 rifle and WW2 sub-machine gun with modified scoring for both divisions. Modern equipment can still compete, but the round count will be twice as much as it will be for WW2 rifles.
I would leave shotguns out of a WW2 themed match, it makes it much simpler as repros and genuine WW2 or earlier shotguns are not entirely common.
The 3 divisions I would recommend for an all WW2 match would be:
Bolt Rifle: Any service issued bolt action
Semi-Auto Rifle: Any semi auto issued rifle
Subgun: Any semi or full auto issued pistol caliber and only prohibit full auto if its against the range rules for some reason.
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Only certain parts count towards the number of parts needed. ATF specifies which parts these are. For example on the M4 as far as I know there is not enough US made parts yet. YOu can get 4 but you need 5. (Forend from surefire, Mag tube, mag follower and spring.) If you know who makes parts that bring the Benelli's into complaince please share.
Pat
The Mesa Tactical Urbino stock coming out next month takes care of the stock.
For M1s, M2s, M3s, speedfeed stocks have been available for years.
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It wouldn't be so funny if the ATF was there and started taking people to jail.
That day is coming. Arresting a lot of people engaged in "paramilitary training" or "combat games" as one Federal Court Case called it, for having illegal weapons would be a nice media frenzy for them. It would also be a good way to put a black eye on a sport that has increasing social acceptance.
It wouldn't matter that most of the charges would be dismissed, or fought and won eventually. There are enough laws in this country that everyone is guilty of something. In legal battles with the government there is no winning; only how bad do you lose. You cannot out spend the people that tax you.
Your right it applies to the M2 as well. Only shotguns made prior to 1986 are grandfathered. The are a few ways around this law. 1. put enough american made parts into the gun so that its considered domestic like all the AK's on the market. 2. Its a LEO duty weapon. 3. Register it as a short barreled shotgun. Most Benelli shooters are in violation of the law. But fortunately its not a priority for BATFE.
Pat
IIRC it was 1989. The HK imported Benellis for example were often imported in what would be non-sporting configurations now.
There was a recent ruling that the NFA (that can be owned or manufactured by individuals) no longer exempts guns from 922r. Someone had to go and specifically ask.
There are an increasing number of US made parts for benellis that easily put them in the realm of compliance.
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A friend is used an EOTech with the .223 BDC reticle and a magnifier, and he can make hits easily out to 500.
The 1 MOA dot in the middle is a big advantage at distance.
The 3 dots below it calibrated for 300, 400, 500, are a bigger advantage at those distances. My aimpoint has a 2MOA dot, out to 300 it doesn't make much difference vs the EOTtech, the BDC EOtech is better past 300 because of the aiming reference points.
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I have been using a magnifier with an aimpoint for about 8 months now.
I went to it after I started going to matches that had more physical challenges and awkward shooting positions. My limited eye relief variable power optic I was previously using started to exhibit short comings. Most 3 gun matches will never put you in a position to find these limitations because stages are designed by people to be compatible with the equipment they are using. The aimpoint with magnifier is a much more versatile system inside 300 yards than any optic with limited eye relief. The dot does look distorted when magnified, but you get used to it. I find I often don't even use the magnifier unless I am shooting at small targets or farther than 150 yards.
The one downside is if you use a tip to the side mount, you must use a rear sight that is stream lined. A big windage knob will interfere with the charging handle operation. I use the Hahn Precision rear sight to avoid this issue.
A friend is used an EOTech with the .223 BDC reticle and a magnifier, and he can make hits easily out to 500.
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If you want to carry more than a couple, there is no substitute for a chest rig. PM me if you want more info.
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I shoot all unmodified "right handed" guns. Right handed shotguns are an advantage for a lefty.
Work on transitioning to your right shoulder to shoot around barricades and stuff. Simply transitioning on courses made for right handed shooters will be easier than fighting to shoot left handed where it just won't work.
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This is a general statement, not specifically about shooting USA. If all people see on TV is the top shooters, they are intimidated out of participating themselves. I can't tell you all how many times people have told me "I'll never be that good"...my response "who cares, go have fun and better yourself".
I'm not sure that the old train of thought "watching the big guns" on prime time holds true anymore. New trends with reality TV have changed the way people view the average person.
I actually think a good show would be one showing some average shooters training up for a big national match; starting with their practice sessions, some local matches, then show the big event. Showing people how you get to that point would be interesting for the average gun owner I think.
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A worthy sequel, as a Predator fan I enjoyed it. There is some typical action movie stuff, but its still good.
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Going to midnight showing in 1 hour...I'll let you guys know how it is.
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Like NST, one of the reasons I compete and encourage others to do so is to improve their gun handling and marksmanship skills. I am merely a citizen, my job doesn't require that I carry a firearm on a daily basis. I do however carry/own firearms for self defense, and believe I have an obligation to be well trained and proficient in their use. I'd rather shoot stages that are set up like a midway carnival game but push my skills shooting and physically than stages that purport to be tactical, but are limited in the skills and difficulty being tested. The matches I enjoy the most are the hardest ones with unexpected challenges...but then maybe I'm a weirdo in that regard.
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This Forum is not about the pros and cons of tactical "real world" house cleaning - it is about competition shooting.
Statements like this in the rules of the organization themself, make this sort of discussion unavoidable:
IDPA DMG is a shooting sport that uses practical equipment to solvesimulated “real world” self-defense scenarios.
Without that justification for the rules being the way they are, there would be no basis for this debate.
I am starting an organization dedicated to running marathon races...we will practice every month with a pie eating contest. (no I'm not just talking about the support side only debate, see my earlier post)
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I think shooterready is saying his home defense shotgun is a Saiga-12 and it is fortunate he has other guns to use because mag fed guns are prohibited outright.
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People can't shoot support side because they don't practice shooting support side. Because people fail to practice shooting support side seems like a silly reason to not include it in matches.
As a left handed shooter I have CONSTANTLY for the 9 years I have been playing these games had to switch on fly and shoot support side because stage designers design stages with the other 90% of the population in mind. Every major match I go to I have had to do it at least once if not more. Switching on the fly is second nature to me.
You also see Negligent discharges in matches when competitors switch sides.I regularly shoot matches where EVERYONE has to shoot support side, and as I said above I have to do it regularly anyway. In fact we just ran 55 people through a rifle match last weekend where all of them had to shoot support side. No ADs. It is not a safety issue more than anything else we do with guns in practical matches. I have yet to see an ND because of it, and if there was it would be because they violated a basic gun safety rule; finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
But in fairness this topic is often debated among firearms trainers.I would encourage you to take a class with Bennie Cooley (Or Kyle Lamb, or several others pushing advanced techniques). There is distinct value in ambidextrous gun handling for economy of motion and speed increases. The arguments against ambidextrous gun handling I have heard in other schools are 1) people don't practice it, 2) in real life you won't think to do it anyway. Those two things go hand in hand...if you aren't comfortable with it, you won't do it when you have the option of doing so. It's a circular argument.
Competition shooters are generally people who strive to better themselves by competing. To better ourselves we need to do things that are hard, and challenge us to learn new skills.
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The AZ ACTS (Rifle+Pistol, with focus on rifle) matches attract people that don't shoot 3 Gun...one of the main reasons a lot of people like shooting it is there is no shotgun. They are every month at Pima Pistol Club on the 3rd Saturday.
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I used Nobel Sport 00 12 pellet buckshot and did most of them in 2 shots.
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IDPA recognizes the use of long guns as well as handguns as defensive tools.
IDPA Defensive Multi-Gun (DMG) is designed to give clubs and competitors
the option of enjoying the use of these tools in a competitive environment.
IDPA DMG should be thought of as an occasional accompaniment to regular
IDPA matches and not a replacement of those matches.
IDPA DMG is a shooting sport that uses practical equipment to solve
simulated “real world” self-defense scenarios.
IDPA DMG shooting events require use of practical handguns, rifles,
shotguns, ammunition carriers and holsters that are truly suitable for selfdefense.
IDPA DMG Shooting events require the use of Rifles and Shotguns that are
typical of what is used for home defense and vehicle carry.
No “competition only” equipment is permitted in IDPA 3 Gun matches since
the main goal is to test the skill and ability of the individual, not equipment or
gamesmanship.
The highlighted portions above really illustrate the absurdity of their stage design limitations. Why have such a preamble then do so many things contrary to the stated mission purpose.
DMG- CoF 3. Shooter movement of more than ten (10) yards between firing points and fifteen (15) yards total movement in a string of fire is not permitted.DMG- CoF 5. Avoid designing courses of fire that will substantially disadvantage senior and mobility-challenged shooters."
Because physical fitness and ability has NO bearing on ones ability to successfully defend oneself or win a fight.
"DMG- CoF 4. Only one (1) non-threat target may be used per every three (3) threat targets in any string of fire."Because there will always be more hostiles in a self defense scenario than innocents milling around.
"DMG- CoF 16. No “weak-hand only” reloading."Because you will never be wounded in a self defense situation, and you will never need to use only one hand to manipulate your firearm.
I really wouldn't have such an issue with any of these rules if the entire thesis for this competition format wasn't contrary to realistic training and contemporary tactics. The rules as published should be called "3 Gun Light" and not reference any thing related to the defensive use of firearms.
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Ironman is different in that the minimum shots you need of any one type when switching is 4 rounds usually. It is always worth it to just reload with an entire mag of bird, buck, or slug there...you might miss from fatigue or difficulty of the shot, you may need to hammer a double spinner around. The fatigue factor also slows down most people loading tube feds; and the gross motor function of loading a mag becomes an advantage vs individual shells.
In normal 3 gun stages there are normally a few slugs at the beginning or end. The hassle comes into play when it is only 1 or 2.
Do I load my mag in sequence and count on making the shots?
Do I do a mag change to make sure I have enough rounds either way?
The first option works well as long as you make your hits.
The second option costs you less if you need to take extra shots.
Switching several times in the middle of the stage is another level of headache and I personally just change mags back and forth. I'm not going to count on remembering where that slug was in the mag and not tagging a popper accidentally.
The worst stage I've ever shot in terms of using a Saiga was a blind shotgun stage at the 2008 Rocky Mountain 3 Gun...there were several arrays of bird shot targets with slug hits in between. I had to change mags 6 times, and there was no way preplan for this stage as you had no idea what you were going into. I would have been happier just drawing my pistol to engage the slug targets.
The drums require screwing around with the spring to time it for the bolt speed with the ammo you are using. When I used a drum previously I ONLY used it for bird shot. Mixxing loads in it always caused it to malfunction. I'd be willing to bet many people didn't time their springs, or were using mixed loads. Also the drum requires that you have good recoil springs capable of stripping that shell out of the drum. My biggest complaint with the drums is I paid $260 for mine and they are now $100.
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The only thing I can definitively say is that all Saigas are different, and maybe the one I got that had 9,000 rounds through it had metallurgy that wasn't as good as some other peoples guns.
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Let me give you guys my Saiga-12 run down. I first got into shooting these things in 2006. This was after Wakal and Fred had been using them, but well before it was cool to use one.
Names have been with held as everyone that did work on my guns made it right in the end.
Gun 1 was imported with a 17.2" barrel...it had to be sent back to RAAC under a mandatory BATF recall.
Gun 1 comes back it is ugly as hell with this welded on choke thing. I sent it to a reputable smith to be reworked into a pistol grip configuration and have a comp put in its place.
Gun 1 comes back, it now has plastic wadding shaving into the gas system making neat little hockey puck things. It goes back and forth to the smith a couple times and he gives me a new Gun, Gun 2.
Gun 2 runs great for about 1500 rounds. Then the plate that was welded on to attach the stock starts splitting off. Off it goes to the gunsmith for repair. I sold it when I got it back and got two stock Saigas Guns 3 and 4
Gun 3 runs great, and ends up serving me for almost 3 years with 9,000 rounds fired. (I will go over the maintenance log with that one later).
Gun 4 has crooked gas ports. It has intermittent failures. I never got the opportunity to fix this one. It was removed from my former place of employment and is sitting in a government warehouse somewhere.
Gun 5 is purchased to replace Gun 4. I send it off to a different reputable smith to be converted. It comes back and doesn't work (it did before). Gunsmith fixes it. When I get it back I shoot it for a while, but it doesn't run as well as Gun 3, so I sold it.
Gun 6 is purchased to replace Gun 5. Gun 6 is part of a faulty batch of imported guns with only 2 gas ports. Gun 6 is sent back, and the importer sends me Gun 7.
Gun 7 only has 3 gas ports and doesn't run that well. Out of exasperation I have my machinist press the gas block off and drill another hole. Gun runs fine now with everything I shoot through it, just like Gun 3 did.
Gun 3 having seen several years of use and 3 Ironman Matches is starting to look worse for the wear.
Factory fire control parts wore out at about 3,000 rounds
Recoil springs have been replaced 4 times.
surfaces on the bolt and barrel extension are peening over and have to be polished.
The rear trunion has shifted significantly and the top cover only has 50% engagement.
The gun once fired merely by turning the safety off
Gun 8 is purchased to replace Gun 3. Gun 8 is about 0.040" smaller in the receiver width than any of my earlier guns and it pinches AGP mags so they will not feed fast enough. It works with surefire mags though which are apparently 0.025" smaller in width than AGPs. I need to decide what I am going to do with this thing.
When Saigas, work they are AWESOME. I have won and placed in the top 3 of my division in several big matches because I was using a Saiga. I absolutely hate loading tube fed shotguns. I am however, getting sick of the maintenance cycle and going through on average 3 guns to find one that works well out of the box. If the gunsmiths can guarantee that your gun will run when you get it back from them, it may very well be worth the cost if you are lacking in patience and mechanical aptitude. All of these guns are different, even within the same batches, and you have to look at it as a project.
If you're seeing A LOT of home built or stock saigas not working, a good portion of them are probably because the guns themselves are messed up and either need to be fixed or replaced.
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Open
Kelly Neal
Paul S
Tom R
Scope
Kalani L
Mark S
Mark P
Reflex (red dot optics only)
Richard Bhella
Russell Phagan
Brian B
Iron
Keith M
Blaine W
Jon C
55 shooters total
Top 5 Results
Kelly Neal Open
Kalani L Scope
Mark S Scope
Richard Bhella Reflex
Russell Phagan Reflex
Full Results
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Stage 7 POV:
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Found a thread with an e-mail address:
Thanks...I sent them an e-mail and will post a followup with resolution.
TOP SHOT 10 - Season Finale
in Books, Movies, TV & Music
Posted · Edited by SinistralRifleman
I've compete against Iain at the Ironman 3 Gun the past 2 years in Trooper. I got him him 2009, he got me in 2010. It's only natural that a 3 gunner would win this thing; its the most versatile skill set of any the contestants had.
Congrats Iain, I was rooting for you!