HOGRIDER
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Posts posted by HOGRIDER
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1 hour ago, ysrracer said:
The Mr Bullet Feeder funnel measures .356 at the second bell.
ysrracer:
Not sure how accurate your measurement is, or you may have an out of spec funnel, but the original DAA design normally yielded .3575" to .358" on the upper step. This became evident when I talked with Rick Koskela about the option of having a smaller upper step machined, to all but eliminate, the "sticking" most users have with the DAA/PE/UniqueTek funnels. BTW, Photo Escape is actually manufacturing the powder funnels per Rick's original blueprints. Also being marketed by Uniquetek.
Here's a good read that I posted several years ago when I became a FIRM BELIEVER in the benefits of loading with the MBF powder funnel; especially with coated lead:
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/205711-fix-for-shaving-lead-bullets/
And, after a recent discussion with The Blue Bullets, I found out they manufacture/final size the 9mm 147g FP and RN bullets to .355". So, IMO, you should not be having any issues with those falling off the cases during processing.
BTW: here's another tid-bit of info that was shared with me:
QuoteAlso note that if you “lift” the powder measure body and then tighten down the powder measure mounting flange, the amount of “flare” done by the cone funnel will change by at least -.002” to -.003”.
Hope this helps!
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Another vote for the PE/Uniqtek/DAA powder funnel!
Will expand for any coated lead/fmj bullet I've tried.
BTW: PE does offer oversized powder funnels...........https://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/9htc-ptu.html
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On 5/8/2021 at 1:55 PM, SteelCityShooter said:
A "chamber checker" isn't a "plunk checker", only your specific barrel is. As long as 9mm rounds are less than 1.169" (the SAAMI published max OAL) they will be fine in a chamber checker.
+1
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3 minutes ago, Darrell said:
Great group.
Thanks Darrell!
I was totally surprised with this one as I was shooting off an inexpensive, plastic rest that wasn't very stable:
https://www.caldwellshooting.com/rests/shooting-rests/the-pistolero/562771.html#start=1
But, I'll take it as there were a few more that weren't far behind that one. At least I've now got a good baseline!
CZ Reload: 3.5g N320, Round 1 Digital Link
Zero 147g JHP, OAL=1.125"
Temperature: 55*
Pressure: 30.07
Bullet Weight: 147.0
Power Factor Average: 132
Power Factor Low: 129
Power Factor High: 133
Number of Shots: 10
Minimum: 880
Maximum: 908
Spread: 28
Average: 899
Standard Deviation: 8
# Velocity Ft/lbs Power Factor Date
10 894 260.85 131 5/6/21 3:14 PM
9 899 263.78 132 5/6/21 3:14 PM
8 900 264.37 132 5/6/21 3:13 PM
7 905 267.31 133 5/6/21 3:13 PM
6 905 267.31 133 5/6/21 3:13 PM
5 880 252.75 129 5/6/21 3:13 PM
4 908 269.09 133 5/6/21 3:12 PM
3 896 262.02 131 5/6/21 3:12 PM
2 898 263.19 132 5/6/21 3:12 PM
1 906 267.90 133 5/6/21 3:11 PM -
On 4/14/2021 at 9:46 AM, Darrell said:
The Zero 147 JHP at 1.100 (3.2 gr Tightgroup) will work great in your CZ's, the Acme will have to be plunk tested. My Bayou/Brazos 147 TC's are loaded to 1.130. I shot the Nationals with a CZ Shadow years ago when only three of us used CZ's. Now to be competitive in Production the CZ platform dominates. I have the Accu-Shadow for production and use a TS orange for local PPC matches. This year I'm dedicating myself to Carry Optics Division and shooting a P320 X5 Legion, or a Shadow Systems DR920. I currently shoot the DR920 better. Good luck to you. Check out my spreadsheet on this forum and it may give you some help picking a load.
Darrell:
I think this group and a couple others are ready for the Ransom Rest!
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THANK YOU Sir!
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On 1/12/2021 at 9:47 AM, N3WWN said:
Welcome to the sport!
You will want to become familiar with the rules as every USPSA match is (supposed to be) run under these exact rules:
https://uspsa.org/viewer/2020-USPSA-Competition-Rules.pdf
The equipment requirements for Carry Optics (CO) is covered in App D7.
The location of the equipment is covered in App E3:
To answer your specific questions:
- Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from inner side of belt is 2 1/8” (width of an overlay)
- 5.2.7.2 states the heel of the butt of the handgun must be above the top of the belt, except as indicated in Rule 5.2.8 for Law Enforcement/Military duty holsters, and approved by the RM
- The 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions will almost definitely be legal, but the 10 o'clock position may also be legal, depending on your body shape, cant of the gun/pouches, etc. Nothing but the optic can extend past that red line that spans the hip bones.
Enjoy the sport, be safe and have fun!
As I'm setting up a new rig for (first time in) Production, it now appears the restrictions on holster/mag pouch placement forward of the hip bone have been removed:
https://youtu.be/FxyKdBnsQIw?t=30
https://uspsa.org/announcement/738
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1 hour ago, Siberian said:
Another data point:
Shadow 2 Optics, 147 RNFP (plated CamPro), 0.220 g N320 (about 3.4 grain in your units) = 128 PF
Shadow 1, 124 RN (plated CamPro), 0.265 g N320 = 130 PF
Shadow 1, 115 RNHP (plated CamPro), 4.5 grain N320 = 128 PF
COL as per bullet mfr's recommendations, tested to plunk
Thanks Siberian!
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2 hours ago, Tunachaser said:
I have used 147 Zero JHP with N-320 @ 3.4 grs. with 1.14 COL in my CZ's for a 129 pf.
Tuna:
That falls in line with data another shooter has shared with me. Your COAL was just a tad longer; but only accounted for a few fps difference.
THANK YOU!!!!
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On 1/22/2021 at 10:20 PM, mveto said:
I believe the BOSS hanger comes with the correct screws to mount the plate to the holster, at least that’s how I remember it with the one I have.
Thought I'd give some feedback on an older thread as I just purchased this combo and had problems with the mounting hardware...........
Production rig for CZ Shadow2 consisting of Red Hill Tactical Competition holster, Boss Hanger, Shooter's Connection belt combo, and Ghost 360s pouches. Once I got everything in from Shooter's Connection, I ran into post nuts that came with the RH holster were way oversized (OD) for the Boss Y-Plate hanger. Talked to owner of RHT, and he thought, since he claims every holster maker uses the same hardware, I had a y-plate that had not had the final hole size reamed correctly.
Got the Starrett digital calipers out and measured the OD of the post nuts which averaged .208" while the ID of the Y-Plate holster mounting holes measured .201". Called Ben Stoger Pro Shop and the tech said RHT was using the wrong mounting hardware and that yes, the ID of the y-plate holes was .200"-.201".
Note: Both the RHT Competition holster and the Boss Hanger supplies 8-32 x 1/4" screws to mount a holster. Only RHT supplied the post nuts which were threaded 8-32 with a 1/4" long post. The issue I had was to correctly mount the RHT holster to the Boss Hanger, the post nuts must pass through the holster AND the y-plate in order to get a secure mounting of the two items.
After a second call back to Shooter's Connection, a Tech by the name of Ryan, had found some 8-32" post nuts that averaged .196" - .197" OD, and he was putting me 3 of these in the first class mail to go out that day. BTW, he provided EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE throughout the whole ordeal!
Couple of days later I received the post nuts from Ryan, and sure enough, they easily fit into the holes of the Y-Plate for holster mounting. One thing I think important, these post nuts had a post length of 3/16" with 8-32 threads. So I decided, since the OEM screws were only 1/4" long, to run up to Tractor Supply and pick up a 5 pack of Hillman stainless steel 8-32x3/16" machine screws. Same screw brand that Lowe's offers. A touch of blue Loctite for added measure, and this combo worked perfectly with the new post nuts! IMO, the 3/16" screws provided a bit of extra thread engagement.
Hope this helps someone considering the holster/hanger combination!
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1 hour ago, bigdave24 said:
As a starting point, I’ve used 3.3 gr N320 at 1.132 oal with xtreme 147 bullets and made 130PF in an SP-01 Shadow.
Thanks big!
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1 hour ago, twodownzero said:
That's very dependent on bullet profile. I don't buy factory ammunition anymore, but for some bullet profiles, that might be normal. For round nose/truncated cone heavies like we're likely to shoot in USPSA, 1.080 is quite a bit shorter than what I've been loading for my other 9mm pistols, so rather than develop a new load for them, I'd simply modify the gun.
There are a lot of different ways to skin a cat, so this is just the one I propose.
Also, just because there is factory ammunition that short, it does not follow that the chamber should be that short. Someone made mention of precision rifle. My .308 has a chamber that is 2.930" or more with certain bullets, even though every book puts .308 at 2.800". I think that chamber is a bit long and if I had a custom barrel fitted, I would likely have the chamber a bit shorter than that, but any factory ammo shot in that rifle would necessarily have .130" to jump to get to the lands, assuming a similar bullet profile to that which I'm already using. Obviously that's not ideal, but it's also clear that the chamber was cut to allow for normal variations in factory ammunition, in both bullet weight and profile. Cutting a 9mm Luger chamber such that ammuition has to be significantly shorter than SAAMI max with a common bullet profile does not seem like a sound decision to me. I prefer my guns to have a chamber that will run all common bullet profiles at SAAMI max for that cartridge.
My STI Eagle (40 S&W) will chamber ammunition at 1.3", ammunition that is so long that it can't eject that cartridge. Maybe that's a bit much but I don't worry about the bullet hitting the rifling right out of the magazine, either.
You're free to have a different opinion, but this is mine.
I too primarily shoot my reloads except for the fact that I shoot/carry factory ammo in my CCW weapon. And I have several boxes of factory ammo that I purchased when I started making the transition to 9mm. I fully realize after plunk testing a few different bullets in the S2O's barrel, that bullet profiles and weights will require different OALs!
I don't prefer a shorter chamber either. Maybe it's because CZ is producing these pistols in European markets that normally use the shorter chambers.........I'm not sure, but I do know they are much shorter than my 1911/2011/Glock platforms. But I can learn to adjust for that.
According to the USPSA 2020 Equipment Survey, 40% of those reportedly shooting in Production class were shooting Factory Loaded ammo! And I'm sure there are more people shooting factory ammo than those of us that prefer to reload our own. Could be why the manufacturers make pistols that will shoot all types of available 9mm ammo.
FWIW, I will always respect your opinion whether I agree with it or not.
Again, thanks for your feedback!
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40 minutes ago, HesedTech said:
BTW, I believe CZ has hardened their barrels these days and makes reaming the throat a bit harder.
I have read that in several posts.
Thanks for your feedback!
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1 hour ago, motosapiens said:
all my load data for 147's is coated or plated, but based on those numbers, I would start with around 3.5 gr of n320 at 1.125 for zero jacketed bullets and go chrono it. Of course my manual doesn't even list n320 as an option for 147's, so you need to be comfortable going off the reservation and using your own brainpower. Fortunately, n320 and zero are both popular and consistent components. If you must use a ransom rest to make yourself feel better, I would probably advise to wait until you get the pf you desire, and then double check it. It won't do you any good if the most accurate load from your ransom rest only makes 122pf.
moto:
I agree with your assessment as I'm trying to get information from other shooters that will get me "close" to my desired PF. And with components as hard to come by as they are right now, I definitely don't want to waste a bunch of primers, powder, and bullets getting where I want to be.
Yes, I think I'll end up around 3.5g-3.7g of N320 based on feedback I've received so far. VihtaVuori has published data using the Hornady 147g XTP type bullets which IMO, the Zero 147g JHP resembles very well. The do publish with an OAL of 1.142" and I have used this length in several other platforms; just not experienced with using shorter the lengths required of the CZ.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=89
At my age, I always finalize my pet loads for accuracy using a Ransom Rest if it's available. That way, if I miss in local competition, then it's MY FAULT and not the ammo!
THANKS for your feedback!
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37 minutes ago, twodownzero said:
I would not ever load 9mm Luger that short. I know CZs have short chambers and I actually have one on order. I will be sending the barrel to Memphis Mechanic to get him to ream it. 1.080 is almost a hundred thousandths shorter than SAAMI max and that is absolutely ridiculous.
tdz:
I've got several boxes of various 9mm factory ammo that show OALs averaging from 1.064" to 1.110". So, I don't think loads in the 1.080" range would be that unusual.
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17 minutes ago, cnote said:
plunk test for max oal is crucial, otherwise every bullet produced above it, is a waste.
I understand! And since wasting hard to come by components is not my desire, I'm trying to get solid info from others that have used my combination of bullets & powder.
Thanks!
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5 minutes ago, GringoBandito said:
I have a fair amount of n320 and 147 zero load data that was used for an sp01. If you send me a PM with your email address, I can send it to you.
To net the results, 3.5GR of n320 made 130PF loaded at 1.125. ES of 21, AVG velocity 889. I have load data from 3.1-3.5
Awesome!
PM coming and THANKS for sharing your data!
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30 minutes ago, Darrell said:
I do almost the same. I have an OAL tester I made with Hornady OAL tool, I back off .015 and start from there. I look at max charge and subtract 10% and start there in .2 gr. My crimp is set at .378-.379. Once I chrono and accuracy test with my ransom rest, I take the most accurate one and start decreasing my OAL by .010, load 10 each at that powder charge and see if standard deviation and accuracy improves. ( i.e. Precision Delta loads their 124 JHP at 1.100, I found that that bullet is more accurate at 1.085 and that's what I use. Go look at my spreadsheet, I have OAL for different bullets in my guns and loads for the Shadow, Accu-shadow, and TS Orange.
Darrell:
I have scoured your loadsheets many times, and just not coming up with a comparable combo unless Sport Pistol meters similar to N320........
And it does appear, your heavier JHP/FMJ/CMJ bullets are working well with Sport Pistol. Unfortunately all I have to work with is N320 and the Zero 147JHP combo. Even though I'm retired, it's a major endeavor to test at length since the range for chrono work and my friends Ransom Rest are in two different, far between, locations.
I do appreciate your feedback!
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As this Shadow 2 is a completely new platform for me, I'm having to relearn my reloading practices to deal with the shorter OALs that are required.
I've reviewed the USPSA 2020 Production Equipment Survey, and see that the top bullet weight being used (as reported) was 147g by Blue Bullets. 124g/125g was a close second. And Titegroup was #1 used powder with N320 in second. Not sure how truly representative these results are, but I do respect them.
What I have a plentiful supply of is N320 along with Zero 147g JHP bullets. I've pretty much settled on using an OAL of 1.125" So, at this point, I'm wondering if any reloaders here might have some ladder results using the same or similar components that I can refer to for my first ladder of starting loads? My goal is a 133-135PF with accuracy my number one priority.
Thanks for your help!
HR
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3 minutes ago, davsco said:
i did it a few months ago and to be honest, not really sure what i did... it wasn't super intuitive, at least to me and i fumbled around but finally got it working.
try to find the 'reloading' section. then there's a page where you select the 'in-stock notifications' you want to receive (such as 'powder' 'projectiles' and various primer options).
you'll get a popup on your computer when someone posts what you're looking for (eg powder) is in stock and just click on the link to go to the company's website.
make sure you're logged in on the various company websites and have accounts set up with shipping address, credit card, etc.
Thanks!
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1 hour ago, rowdyb said:
Depending on the ogive that can be a perfectly good oal for a 147gr bullet in a shadow 2. Those are typically numbers people would associate as "long" for a cz, but if you've developed them properly and observed how they feed and shoot then load what works in the gun and on target vs the forum.
Thanks for your feedback!
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19 hours ago, davsco said:
you guys need to get on 'discord.' i've seen plenty of vv powder and have bought 3n38 and n320 multiple times this year. it will send notices to your phone and/or pc when folks post it in stock.
davsco:
Just started using discord for another purpose......care to share with a "how-to"?
Thanks!
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2 hours ago, Tunachaser said:
Yes, lots of quality gear for CZ's. I like the Armanov bases the way they lock and can be removed without tools. JMHO A small difference.
Yes production is 10 rounds, Mec-Gar makes a 10 round mag that has a couple of dimples in the side to stop the follower at 10 rounds or buy 17 and count your rounds. FYI the dimples can be removed if you decide to change classes, or so I've heard....
Since the 10 round and 17 round are the same price, I'll just order the 17s and keep count of my loading.
17s are much more versatile since I'm also hoping to add Carry Optics to my adventure once I'm comfortable with Production.
Thanks again for your feedback!
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Realizing the chambers are "short" on the CZs based on my reading, I decided to try Wobbly's "How To Determine Max OAL For A CZ Pistol."
Using new Zero 147g JFPs along with once fired Winchester brass, I made up 7 dummy loads to use, following the directions outlined in the referenced article above. Results were:
#1: 1.159"
#2: 1.159"
#3: 1.163"
#4: 1.157"
#5: 1.158"
#6: 1.160"
#7: 1.158"
I threw out the highest and lowest measurements. Total for the remaining 5 was 5.794" which averages out to 1.1558". After subtracting the recommended 0.015", I've got 1.1438"; rounded up to 1.144".For many years, VihtaVuori has used an OAL of 1.142" in many of their 9mm N300 series loads; particularly with the 147g Hornady XTP. I have also used this OAL in many reloads with N320 for other platforms.
Do these OAL numbers sound typical for the Shadow2 barrels? Would those experienced with reloading this particular platform recommend I use 1.142" as a safe OAL, or should I drop down to 1.140" as a better standard?
I realize the RL1100 will yield some +/- variance's in my final product.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. Sure helping me get started on the right track!
Coated bullets and Mr Bullet Feeder?
in Dillon Precision Reloading Equipment
Posted
Then if your current funnel is indeed .356 on the upper step, then I would order one of the PE oversized funnels from either PE themselves, or if they are closer to you, then Uniquetek!
https://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/9htc-ptu.html
https://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1736