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Fix for Shaving Lead Bullets


HOGRIDER

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Noticed several here were dealing with the dreaded "shaving" of the coated lead bullets; and most could eliminate it by using a larger "bell" of the case mouth. What really caused my dissatisfaction with the whole process was when I belled large enough to eliminate the shaving, I was having issues with the brass "dragging/shaving" when entering the Redding Micrometer seating die. Was more an issue with my 45acp reloads than the 9mm; both using coated Bayous.

Had a discussion with "razorfish" concerning his DAA/Mr. Bullet Feeder setup being such a success with the stability of the bullet prior to entering the seating phase as he too uses the Redding Micro seater. His recommendation was to give the DAA powder funnel/expander a try as he had used one for over a year prior to getting the DAA Bullet Feeder system.

So, I purchased one and have to say it has been one of the best additions to the XL650 I have ever tried! After the initial setup, I loaded up a dozen test rounds using the Bayou 135 RN, and after pulling, was getting zero shaving of the Bayou bullets. Here's a pic of some test rounds I was finishing up today that shows the minimal expansion that allows the bullet to sit "in" the case vs. at the very mouth of the case when belled normally on the XL650:

Bayou135_zps2294c7e0.png

Also noticed that johnsons 1480 was having issues with the 147g Bayous, so after finishing with the 135s I grabbed a new Bayou 147gr along with a Federal once fired case as I had been using once fired Win brass while loading the 135s. Here's a pic of the 147 positioned "in" the mouth of the brass after sizing and expanding at stations 1 & 2 using the same setup on the XL650 when doing the 135s. Again notice the lack of over belling but still allowing a stable placement of the bullet:

147Inserted_zpseaea31f8.png

A pic of the seated bullet to an OAL of 1.125":

147Seated2_zpsff70a3fe.png

I immediately removed the round from the press (prior to crimping) and proceeded to pull the bullet. After a few knocks to free the bullet, there's also zero shaving on the 147gr:

147Pulled_zpsabb41b5f.png

So, if your experiencing "shaved" bullets or unstable seating, IMO the DAA/MBF expander funnel might be worth a try.

HR

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Did not have to change powder bar settings; but you will need to readjust the powder die to lower the powder measure "assembly" as the DAA funnel is a tad shorter than the Dillon funnel. Refer to section E. Station 2 – Adjustment of Powder Die & Powder

Funnel in the owners manual.

:)

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It looks like these dies will work like the Lymann neck expender M die.

Getting these for loading 9mm 45ACP and 38/.357 will make a better bullet. It will save money by increasing the amount of times you can reload the same brass. I have not seen this data on any of the other gun forums I belong to.

I was lucky to be on this forum at the right place at the right time to get this valuable information.

Thanks so much for the video and time you spent to bring this data to the forum members. :bow:

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It looks like these dies will work like the Lymann neck expender M die.

Getting these for loading 9mm 45ACP and 38/.357 will make a better bullet. It will save money by increasing the amount of times you can reload the same brass. I have not seen this data on any of the other gun forums I belong to.

I was lucky to be on this forum at the right place at the right time to get this valuable information.

Thanks so much for the video and time you spent to bring this data to the forum members. :bow:

rde:

That post didn't get a lot of feedback/replies, but I'm always glad to help other loaders!

I got turned onto the MBF/DAA funnels after seeing a post/video by razorfish:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=201001&p=2279190

He offered his experience and recommendation of the funnels; and they proved to be an excellent upgrade on my machine.

;)

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I posted about this in anther place. Here is some responds to the lead shaving issue. In his replay he was reffering to the very good write up that Matt Dardas wrote about lead shaving and accuracy.

This is the reply..

"Yeh, I read the page about not flaring case mouths. What a joke. I would simply switch to a different bullet then. I have had amazing success with Xtreme bullets. The copper plating is very easy to work with and there is minimal copper fouling and absolutely no lead fouling. Just switch bullets and save yourself money and heart ache.

In fact, I reviewed the prices on 9mm and here is a price comparison:

Darda Lead Cast - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $12.70 per 100 or, $0.127 per bullet.

Xtreme Copper Plated - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $39.90 per 500 or, $0.08 per bullet.

So am confused why anyone would chose Darda."

Edited by rde1911
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Why is your press so clean?

Ron:

I usually don't have to do a lot of "cleaning" on my XL650 unless I've been depriming only, large quantities of fired brass.

I use the stainless pin wet tumbling process for cleaning my brass, and I honestly believe that contributes to my press staying cleaner than normal. Also have the shell plate/indexing system adjusted so there is virtually little to no powder spillage during sessions. If so, then a quick blast of some canned air, and I'm ready to start another session.

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In fact, I reviewed the prices on 9mm and here is a price comparison:

Darda Lead Cast - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $12.70 per 100 or, $0.127 per bullet.

Xtreme Copper Plated - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $39.90 per 500 or, $0.08 per bullet.

So am confused why anyone would chose Darda."

I'm still working with the Dardas 126 swcfp and haven't actually tried any kind of accuracy comparison, but they seem to be more accurate than the 115gr round nose. i have no dog in this fight, have both on my bench right now. I do like the pretty holes the SWC makes :)

I'm settling on HAP for my wife to shoot. She doesn't like the X 115 or the D 126.

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I have had luck with the following bullets in each caliber.\

9mm =122 grain flat point bevel base.

38/357 .358 ihch double ened wad cutters

45acp= I have to purchase different diameter for different guns after slugging the barrels.

.452 LSWC and for my S&W revolver 453LSWC.

I have had very good luck with Dardas cast bullets. I have tried many brands over the years and have decided to stay with Dardas bullets becaus of quality and consistancy. For the quality you get they are the best price IMO,

Good luck

Edited by rde1911
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I posted about this in anther place. Here is some responds to the lead shaving issue. In his replay he was reffering to the very good write up that Matt Dardas wrote about lead shaving and accuracy.

This is the reply..

"Yeh, I read the page about not flaring case mouths. What a joke. I would simply switch to a different bullet then. I have had amazing success with Xtreme bullets. The copper plating is very easy to work with and there is minimal copper fouling and absolutely no lead fouling. Just switch bullets and save yourself money and heart ache.

In fact, I reviewed the prices on 9mm and here is a price comparison:

Darda Lead Cast - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $12.70 per 100 or, $0.127 per bullet.

Xtreme Copper Plated - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $39.90 per 500 or, $0.08 per bullet.

So am confused why anyone would chose Darda."

I doubt if that quote was from Mr. Dardas. I've spoken with Mr. Dardas several times about loading cast bullets and he never even remotely suggested switching to a plated bullet. It's more likely he would tell you how to load lead bullets rather than suggest another type of bullet.

You can buy 1000 Dardas Cast lead 9mm 124 grain bullets for $55.70 which is .0557 cents a bullet. You would only buy 100 bullets at $12.70 for testing purposes.

Edit: After reading your post again, I realized that it wasn't a quote from Mr. Dardas, but someone else commenting on the lead shaving issue. I apologize.

That person's comment is most certainly the joke, derived from ignorance.

Edited by grapemeister
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Edit: After reading your post again, I realized that it wasn't a quote from Mr. Dardas, but someone else commenting on the lead shaving issue. I apologize.

That person's comment is most certainly the joke, derived from ignorance.

Yes that post was from another member in reference to A post I started about the use of different dies to eliminate lead shavings. This was his reply.

I have spoken to Matt D. a number of times and he has always been very helpful.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It looks like the DAA funnel is still belling but opening the neck a little larger with a little longer parallel section for the bullet. Is that what the funnel looks like?

if you screw it way down it will bell but it's designed to be used like more of an expander. There is a small step on the end that just expands without belling so bullets drop down enough to stay put in the case while the shell plate turns
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It looks like the DAA funnel is still belling but opening the neck a little larger with a little longer parallel section for the bullet. Is that what the funnel looks like?

Build4u:

Here's a crappy phone pic that I hope will help show the difference in the Dillon funnel (on left) and the DAA funnel (on right):

DAA%2045%20funnel_zpsjz1qivft.jpg

As you can see, the Dillon unit simply "bells" the mouth of the case to whatever width desired. Works fine for FMJ/JHP bullets! But with normally oversized lead/coated bullets, the DAA funnel that "expands" the case with little to no "bell" simply prepares the case for a easy, straight in insertion of the bullet. IMO, it makes for a very stable round prior to raising the case/platform into the seating die. Less expansion of the case mouth while virtually eliminating any scraping/damage to the bullet and/or coating.

Again, as depicted in the pics above, this combination speeds up the process for me!

As always, YMMV.....

;)

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I posted about this in anther place. Here is some responds to the lead shaving issue. In his replay he was reffering to the very good write up that Matt Dardas wrote about lead shaving and accuracy.

This is the reply..

"Yeh, I read the page about not flaring case mouths. What a joke. I would simply switch to a different bullet then. I have had amazing success with Xtreme bullets. The copper plating is very easy to work with and there is minimal copper fouling and absolutely no lead fouling. Just switch bullets and save yourself money and heart ache.

In fact, I reviewed the prices on 9mm and here is a price comparison:

Darda Lead Cast - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $12.70 per 100 or, $0.127 per bullet.

Xtreme Copper Plated - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $39.90 per 500 or, $0.08 per bullet.

So am confused why anyone would chose Darda."

You are not comparing apples to apples my friend. Our 9124's (505 count) are priced at $31.50 which is $0.0623 per bullet.

Matt Dardas

Dardas Cast Bullets

Edited by pikedrop
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  • 2 weeks later...

It looks like the DAA funnel is still belling but opening the neck a little larger with a little longer parallel section for the bullet. Is that what the funnel looks like?

Build4u:

Here's a crappy phone pic that I hope will help show the difference in the Dillon funnel (on left) and the DAA funnel (on right):

DAA%2045%20funnel_zpsjz1qivft.jpg

As you can see, the Dillon unit simply "bells" the mouth of the case to whatever width desired. Works fine for FMJ/JHP bullets! But with normally oversized lead/coated bullets, the DAA funnel that "expands" the case with little to no "bell" simply prepares the case for a easy, straight in insertion of the bullet. IMO, it makes for a very stable round prior to raising the case/platform into the seating die. Less expansion of the case mouth while virtually eliminating any scraping/damage to the bullet and/or coating.

Again, as depicted in the pics above, this combination speeds up the process for me!

As always, YMMV.....

;)

Will this work with Dillon Square deal? I have the same issue with shaving.

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I posted about this in anther place. Here is some responds to the lead shaving issue. In his replay he was reffering to the very good write up that Matt Dardas wrote about lead shaving and accuracy.

This is the reply..

"Yeh, I read the page about not flaring case mouths. What a joke. I would simply switch to a different bullet then. I have had amazing success with Xtreme bullets. The copper plating is very easy to work with and there is minimal copper fouling and absolutely no lead fouling. Just switch bullets and save yourself money and heart ache.

In fact, I reviewed the prices on 9mm and here is a price comparison:

Darda Lead Cast - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $12.70 per 100 or, $0.127 per bullet.

Xtreme Copper Plated - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $39.90 per 500 or, $0.08 per bullet.

So am confused why anyone would chose Darda."

You are not comparing apples to apples my friend. Our 9124's (505 count) are priced at $31.50 which is $0.0623 per bullet.

Matt Dardas

Dardas Cast Bullets

The comparison of bullet prices was a quote from another member,,not me. I pointed that out to the person said this.

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Absolutely worthwhile! Aside from it no longer shaving my coated bullets, it also allows me to just place the bullet in the mouth of the case and then reach for the next which speeds up my production rate. With the Dillon expander I needed to guide the bullet up into my seater die, it would not balance itself no matter the adjustment.

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