Carmoney

I know Bud hates iron sights, but you're absolutely right about Pettit--he's an iron sight shooter, and damn good at it.

Hey, I hear ya. I've decided to keep my mind open on this and see what happens.

Ah, you mean those guys that have become hopelessly addicted to their C-mores.....

Hey Bubber, those Steely Speeds are not just revolver-friendly, they're minor-friendly and speedloader-friendly!

If this thread were anywhere but the "Hate" sub-forum, I'd explain all the ways we're being scammed by the medical/insurance community into thinking the problem is the civil justice system......but we are regularly reminded that the "Hate" column is not a place for counter-viewpoints, so I won't.

Sammy and I are sure looking forward to it. We'll be getting in Thursday evening, and doing all of our shooting on Friday and Saturday. It's nice they offered that option to the juniors (and their guardians), otherwise I don't think I could've signed Sam up this year. 10 or 11 shooters per squad is a much more manageable number. We had a great time last year, but 18 shooters made for an awfully big squad, and for an awfully slow shooting day, y'know? Anyway, this is a lot to ask for, but I'm hoping USPSA can squad Sam and me with all three of the Revo squads--then we'd get to shoot and hang around with all the wheels! We would also be up for some sort of get-together Friday evening if everybody's not already exhausted by then.

This from Kim at USPSA: Due to last minute dropouts we currently have about 10 or so slots to the Limited Nationals unfilled. If anyone is interested in shooting this match please call me at the office: 360-855-2245 and I'll sign you up on the spot. These slots are on a first-come, first serve basis and once they're gone, they're gone. This promises to be an exciting, well-run match and we're looking forward to the challenge. Please pass the word along and come out to join the fun! Kim These slots are valid for Revolver division also!!

It may not be as bad as I was thinking. I agree with you that it's somewhat encouraging to see Sedro using actual revolver scores to set the HHFs, I believe it's the first time for that. If they continue to make periodic adjustments like they have in other divisions, it could all work out OK. Plus, after the flurry of interest in the 06s has worn down a little, and we're back to seeing a mixture of 99s, 03s and 06s, the overall aggregate of HHFs might be about right after all. I've decided to relax and just wait and see.

Cliff, it's OK........it's just the name of a steak dinner. The hilljacks aren't going to hurt you anymore.

Dude, gotcha covered: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26887

We'll see how tough Sam is without Rodney and their special southern volatile liquids.......(that's "jesus juice" to you, Tom.....)

Holy crap. I just figured out how they calculated the HHFs for 06-10. It's not a percentage of Limited after all. They simply used the top score from that stage at last year's USPSA Nationals. Jarrett's 2.98 winning run in Limited is exactly 100% for Lim, according to the OH calculator Divita's 2.93 winning run in Open is exactly 100% for Open, according to the OH calculator. And some slow-poke wheelgunner's 4.74 became the 100% benchmark for Revo, too......

These dang range lawyers, always running around quoting latin phrases at us.......

Gotta remember that ICORE and USPSA w/revolver are two very different disciplines that reward different sets of skills. At first blush, you would think the same people would dominate both games, but in fact there are only a very few shooters who really truly excel at both.

OK, Parker, your glorious moment is now over--time now to jump all over him, right guys? Seriously folks, let's talk about what happened here. We don't have our own separate revolver-specific database, as we've discussed. What we have are high hit factors that are based off Limited, with an adjustment level (what I call the "discount") factored in to accommodate our 6-round capacity and slower reloading times. With possibly a few exceptions, the 99-series classifiers used a 10% discount. This was probably too low a discount rate. But the bigggest problem was that it didn't matter whether the stage was 6-round neutral or not, the discount was always the same. The flat 10% is fairly reasonable for El Prez, but not nearly enough for Barrel of Fun, where you had to somehow absorb two extra reloads in order to follow the description. Under the 99-series, it was almost impossible to make GM without major match wins, and in fact that's exactly how Jerry pulled it off. The 03-series classifiers appear to all have a 30% discount rate. This was much better for the non-6-round-neutral stages, but probably a little too much discount for nice revo-friendly classifiers like Papers Poppers or Ironsides. Which is why we did quite well on those. So then they bring out 11 new classifiers a couple months ago, the 06-series. And damned if they're not using what appears to be at least a 45+% discount for us revolver shooters. That's enough discount that it's not too difficult for a good wheelgunner to get a 100% score even on the non-6-round-neutral ones like the Fluffy's Revenge I and II (8-round courses). But here's the big problem: Of the new 06-series classifiers, six of them are revolver neutral, and four of those require no reloads (all the Steely Speeds). And Sedro is using that same 45+% discount even for those!! This is way too much advantage, and it makes those classifiers far too easy to clobber, as Dan did with his 128% run on 06-10. Let's take 06-10 and use it as an example. The stage requires the shooter to simply draw and shoot down six poppers. If you're shooting Limited, you need a 2.97-second run to get a 100% national classifier score from the great computer in the sky. In Revolver, we are given 4.69 seconds to accomplish the same task to get a 100% score. That's way too much advantage, considering there's no reload or nothin'! And that's why, if you spool down through the Top 20 lists, you'll see that the active revolver guys are doing extraordinarily well on the 06-series classifiers, posted tons of 100% scores. In the case of the two guys who just jumped to GM, they happened to shoot a bunch of 06s over the past month or two, caught a bunch of 100% scores, and rode the wave right on up. In Dave's case, he jumped from B straight to GM! Lots of clubs are shooting the 06-series classifiers, of course, because they're novel and new. This means Jerry, Dave and Nils are going to have lots of company up there in G-Man land very soon. Unless USPSA does something to correct this, we are going to see new Revolver GMs every month for awhile. We will have local club-level shooters out there, that nobody's ever even heard of, suddenly show up on the Revo GM list. And guys, this is exactly the kind of situation I was concerned about when I started this thread. It went from being too hard (in fact, nearly impossible) to make GM in Revolver before, to now being far too easy. Inflation has struck, devaluing the value of the GM card as a result. Now I believe Dave and Nils are the kind of shooters who will live up to the GM title, but that sure won't be the case for everybody else who makes it. The answer, once again, is to develop a reasonable, realistic database for Revolver division, based on actual performance by Revolver shooters. Ultimately, it should be about each shooter's ability, not the luck of the draw on which classifiers one happens to shoot. Or so it seems to me.

Squad lists are out on the Nationals website. Three big revo squads, plus Sako shooting with a bunch of bottomfeeders, plus me and Sam who will be joining three different squads on the "junior shoot-through" plan. Heh-heh.....looks like a big bunch of you suckers are gonna have to follow the Limited super squad around the entire frickin' match. Better go to Wal-Mart and buy some of those reclining lawn chairs, you're gonna be doing a lot of waiting around!

Testify, brother!!!

Absolutely. I like mine narrow, rounded, and smooth. Those big wide serrated triggers are only good for single-action shooting.

I'd say the jury's definitely back on the 06s. But what the hell, this is your day Dave! Congratulations, man!

Bump.

I carry 8 moonclips across the front plus one extra around back for emergencies.

I never really did a close comparison, but I've always had the impression that the 25-2 had shallower rifling. This was a well-known issue back in the day, it was regularly mentioned in magazine articles and people who shot revolvers in competition knew that 25-2s and cast lead didn't mix. It was one of the first things we all wondered when it was announced they were bringing out the 625. Although the early 625s had multiple other problems, the 625 series has always done fine with lead bullets, so they obviously changed something!

All those nice wide-open weekends on the match calendar and you guys pick a weekend when there are already three major USPSA matches scheduled?? Sheez.

One thing to keep in mind.....as cool as 25-2s are, they generally shoot pretty horribly with cast lead bullets. Mine (the one Sam has been shooting since last fall) literally spits 'em sideways unless they're sized at least .454. Years ago, after seeing this problem with multiple specimens, we stopped running our home-cast revolver bullets through the lubri-sizer and shot them unsized with a little liquid alox tumble lube. Every 25-2 I've seen is adequately (but not fantastically) accurate with jacketed bullets, and mine shoots perfectly fine with Rainier plated 230s. But these guns do not tend to like bare lead. So if your heart's set on shooting cast lead bullets, you might want to stick with a 625.

I think Keith's right. "Barrel of Fun" last year, right? I don't see it on mine either. I'd kinda like to see this year's count for something....I had a good run. ADDED on 8/15/06: They sent it through.