Carmoney

I'm informed that Scheels in West Des Moines has a minty 25-2 for $495 right now. My source told me it's an excellent example of the really beautiful "high blue" finish that some of the older S&Ws have... They also have one with an awful home-applied bake-on silver finish for $349. It would need to be stripped and re-finished before you could look at it without feeling nauseous, but it seemed perfectly fine otherwise.

I'm not. I decided not to submit an entry this year. But I know some shooters have purchased cheap plane tickets way early, gambling on getting a slot in the match. I'm saying I'm glad I didn't do that.

Aw dude, you gotta try shooting USPSA with a wheel. It's a helluva challenge, but it's really fun!

Right off, I can think of at least three USPSA shooters that are active on the national level who shoot a 25-2: Patrick Sweeney, Kevin Klesser, Sam Carmoney. I'm very happy with my pair of 625s, but if I were starting over from scratch, I'd have a pair of 25-2s with 6.5" barrels instead.

Man, is that guy Dennis coming on strong, or what??

7607 of those posts are in the Shooting Technique Forum. That's not even 2% Exactly, Spook. And perhaps the real point of my original post is that success in this division has nothing to do with fancy and expensive accessories. It's shorter now. Since Fuzz Harding retired and closed up the barbershop, I have to do all my own hairstyling.

Hey man, I was actually on the front cover of a shooting magazine once, a long time ago! I'll attach a link to a .pdf below so you guys can have a good laugh. There's a story behind it you need to understand, though.... Back in the pin shooting heyday, we discovered that a good wide stance helped you control the recoil of a 12-guage shotgun while shooting bowling pins, and the lower you could get, the less time it took to raise the barrel off the rail at the start buzzer and start shooting. So one year at the NAPSA Nationals, between runs, I said, "Hey guys, look at my secret shotgun technique!!" and squatted clear down so I could have the bead right on the first pin while still touching the rail with the gun as required. This is not how anybody actually shot it, of course--it would've probably pushed me over if I actually tried it--but it was funny at the time. Clare Dixon snapped a photo and submitted it along with an article to PSI (Practical Shooting International) Magazine, and just to have a little fun pimping me, Al Laubenthal put the picture on the front cover. So the whole thing was actually just a gag--here, take a look: PSI Magazine The second page of the .pdf is an example of the revolver column I wrote for PSI for awhile, taking over from Jack Parisi after he became the Exec. Editor. This was one of two regular wheelgun columns in that magazine, the other was written by Mike Higashi, of ICORE fame. Other regulars included Walt Rauch, Patrick Sweeney, Massad Ayoob......hell, even Jerry Miculek himself wrote an article one time! Note I didn't try to scan in the whole article, it's not particularly interesting or pertinent to anything these days--still, it shows you what can be done to stir up interest in wheelgunning given a proper forum. (Plus, it's pretty funny to look back at the "big eyeglasses" phase the world went through around 15 years back....) PSI had lots of non-content problems that led to its unfortunate demise, but it was fun while it lasted. Anyway, I guess this is my way of saying I completely agree that gun magazines should feature me on the front cover.

Wow. Sure glad I didn't book a plane ticket. Sounds like I would have been wasting my money.

JTR, welcome aboard! This is a great community and we're happy to have you participating with us. Great looking rig.....looking at your holster, it appears we have another lefty with us. Hear that, Tom and Phil?

Al, if it's timing a little late on just one chamber, you might be able to peen the ratchet. This is pretty delicate stuff, but if you're careful and go slow, you should be able to do it. Before starting, it might be worth your while to run a search in the gunsmithing section of the S&W forum. Quite a lot of good technical stuff over there.

Sorry I didn't chime in earlier.....for some reason I missed this thread previously. Coupla things: While keeping a revolver clean is certainly a good idea, it will not cure a gun that fails to carry up (usually called, "out of time"). If it's so closely timed that a bit of gunk will cause it to time up late, the gun needs fixed. Go very easy on oil on the inside of a S&W revolver. They are designed to function with little or no oil in the guts. And never use grease in there, I don't care what anybody tells you. The barrel of the yoke where the cylinder spins should be kept clean and get a drop of oil now and then--Mobil1 is marvelous for that application. That cursed floating hand is one of several reasons I advise people to avoid the earliest 625-2 "Model of 1988" variant as a shooter. My rationale behind this has been posted ad nauseum on this forum as well as the S&W Forum. Trust me, the reason they only made the Model of 1988 for one year is the legion of problems that gun suffered from. But--they can be made into fine-shooting guns, it just costs money to make that happen.... The good news is that nothing is broken and the floating hand can easily be replaced by a standard hand. You may need an oversize hand in order to obtain correct timing, but that's no big problem. You will not need to replace the trigger. In order to install the standard hand, you will need to pull the "male" pin out of the trigger. Vise grips work fine. That's really all there is to it. I would not advise sending a revolver back to S&W these days. I hate to say it, but there are very few (if any) craftsmen left in that shop who have the slightest idea how to work on the wheels. I've talked to just too many disappointed S&W repair shop customers recently to trust them to fix anything.

Cool! I know where you're coming from. About a year ago I got a call from a friend of mine asking if I wanted to buy back the very first custom revolver I ever owned (and foolishly sold to Larry about ten years back). I was over there within half an hour, cash in hand. My old gun once again resides in my safe where it belongs!

What's that great big "thing" sticking out from the back of the hammer???

I couldn't disagree more. Those things were jammamatics with tiny sights and awful triggers, and with no beavertails, painful to shoot with a correct hold on the gun. Remember, the mid-'50s was before even the first-generation guys like Jim Clark, Austin Behlert, and Frank Pachmayr began to figure out all the wonderful refinements that make the 1911 such a great gun today. By contrast, the 25-2 has never needed much done. My solution has been to shoot shorter cartridges in my 8-shooters: .38 Short Colt in one of my 627s and 9mms in the other. They drop right in real nice!

Entries are coming in. So far Revo is still ahead of Single-Stack, but only slightly..... The stages have received general approval from NROI. We are fine-tuning a few things at their recommendation and should have stage diagrams published within the next few weeks. Everything is looking great! Send your entry in if you haven't already!

I get what you're saying......but take an original WWI 1911 and set it next to a state-of-the-art Limited gun like Sam's Benny Blaster. Same fundamental design at the core, but there's a huge difference between the two in terms of handling, capacity, etc. And I'll go out on a limb and say the ol' GI hogleg would be completely non-viable as a competition piece in today's IPSC world, regardless of the skill of the shooter. This is even more true when you compare the original 1911 to a good Open gun with a C-More. Now take a Model of 1955 (pre 25-2) and set it next to the guns we shoot in Revolver division today. Other than minor stuff like grips and sights, there's virtually no difference. As I said above, a good shooter could pick up the 1955, stick on some decent grips (please don't make me call them stocks, only fussy old collectors call them stocks), maybe do 20 minutes worth of fast and dirty action work, and go win Revolver division at any match in the world. I understand the economics of all of this. I also happen to think S&W managed to do a better job of "getting it right the first time" with the N-frame wheelgun than Colt did with the 1911 Government Model. Hell, the whole custom pistolsmithing industry was born because the 1911 sucked so bad when you pulled it from the box, right? But originally, the shooters demanded the gunsmithing--these days, the gunsmithing industry drives the trends to a large extent. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, because I think Limited and Open guns are really cool! Still, I like knowing I'm competing in a division where I can be pretty certain I'm never going to lose a match because somebody has some new "trick rig" in his bag, and I like knowing I'm not going to have to go out and buy some new gizmo tomorrow just to try to keep up. Production and Single-Stack have some of that same "stock car" appeal to me.

Spook, I agree with you on your ultimate point--that in the long run it's always about the shooting more than the equipment--but I have to point out that the entire category called "Limited" is centered around a concept that didn't exist before Para and eventually the original STI (and its various successsor companies) began to produce hi-cap 1911-based frames. That's all been comparatively recent development. Hell, I remember IPSC before Para existed, so it's all been in the last 20 years.... In Revo, we're shooting technology that has remained essentially unchanged in more than 50 years--since 1955, when Kay Miculek's dad successfully campaigned S&W to put a heavier barrel on the old Target Model of 1950. Every Production gun in common use today is a baby by comparison. Furthermore, the first Model of 1955 that rolled off the line all those years ago would be a completely viable competition revolver in today's Revolver division in IPSC/USPSA, if you wanted to devalue it's collectability by shooting the thing! In decent hands, it would win any match, right up to the USPSA Nationals and the IPSC World Shoot.

Me too, Dave. I have many fond memories of shooting and talking and smoking cheap cigars with Philly. He was one of a kind. His wife always called us (Phil's shooting friends) the "bait and bullets guys." Can you email it to me Dean?

C'mon guys, you gonna make me do all the work here or what?? Let's see some pics of some kool kustom wheels!! Doug, at least put up a shot of your "starter pistol on steroids", OK? Here's the Andy Cannon "Street-L" with integral comp, complete with bocote Spegels. Another of the original generation of competition gunsmiths, Andy passed away a couple years back. He claimed to have shot over a million rounds of ammo through various revolvers (in practice and competition) during his career as a PPC shooter. Another Andy Cannon custom revo, this gun of Mas Ayoob's was built on a 25-2 specifically for pin-shooting. Photo circa 1991 or so. Photographer extraordinaire Ichiro Nagata was one of the early ICORE guys, remember when they were all trying to outdo each other with wacky barrels??

Hell, I spent less than $1,000 for both of the competition revolvers I carry in my bag--name another division where you can buy your main gun plus a nearly-identical back-up for less than a grand total!!

I think it would be great to have another manufacturer come up with a viable option for us....but if it's Taurus they have a ways to go before I'd be convinced their QC and metallurgy is up to the test.

Spend your money on primers.

Didn't somebody publicize a design for a modern top-break revolver a few years back? What if the shooting hand could clear the empties from the gun with a single motion while the off-hand is reaching for the moon. Executed correctly, that could truly speed up the reload in a measurable way.

Dave, ICORE was really only getting started about the time I took my "sabbatical" from serious competitive shooting (to have kids and go back to school), and the whole ICORE thing has never really taken off in this area--so no, I never shot ICORE with it. In fact, the only ICORE match I've ever shot was Bud Bond's Rocky Mountain match last year, and I used an 8-shooter. The Nowlin gun was built for Barney Niner on a gun he won at Second Chance. John Nowlin told me it was one of a kind, and he put special care into building it because he considered Barney an "up-and-comer" and figured it would get the Nowlin name out there. (Keep in mind, at that time, Nowlin worked behind the scenes making barrels and parts for everybody else, but nobody knew who he was.) But Barney was always one of those guys who changed guns all the time, so the 25-2 came on the market. I grabbed it, and it became my primary pin gun (replacing my other 25-2, the one that Sam shoots currently) after I used it to make Master Blaster my first year at Second Chance. I finally got away from shooting it when I switched to the Baumannizer--from that point on, it was the gun I shot for the 8-pin mandatory reload event, but not much else. I've only installed the heavy underlug once, and didn't like the muzzle-heavy feel at all. But it's a beautiful package. I know I shot at least one IPSC match with it, years and years ago (at Boone, Iowa) because I remember the hand breaking in the middle of the match and the cylinder not turning. I only shot a couple of IPSC matches in the "early days," all I really knew how to do back then was stand and shoot, starting from low ready. That's how we shot all our pin and steel matches back then. So all this drawing from a holster and running around stuff is still pretty new to me!

Walt, I believe you're looking for the "custom revolvers of the future thread"......