hopalong

Don't fall for that Dan!!!! Cliff HAS a 1911 pistol, I SAW him shooting it at the Ft. Benning 3-gun match last year!!!! SAM

Hi guys/gals!!!! Just dropped in to make a statement/suggestion. Mike has his Iowa Revolver match, and it looks like he's getting a good response. If any way at all please attend this match, as it is a good thing and will only help our cause with USPSA to keep our division. If you are not able to attend Mr. Carmoney's match I suggest attending the North Carolina secion match the same weekend. We as a group can say, "Hey USPSA Board, look at this.....60+ wheelgunners in Iowa, and on the same weekend 20+ in North Carolina........ALL shooting USPSA" Oh yeah, in case you haven't looked, the N.C. match is a level III match and as everyone knows.......20+ in the division and the top 3 win a slot to the 2007 Nationals!!! With Numbers like that we can show them that Revolver shooting in USPSA is growing and they need not bother the division. I myself will likely attend the North Carolina match (Sorry Mike) since I can travel there for less than half the cost to travel to Iowa. I looked at the Squadding, and there are already 7 wheelgunners signed up for the N.C. match. So as I said before, If for some reason you cannot attend Mr. Carmoneys match, see if you can attend the other. The future of the Revolver Division in USPSA like it is, DEPENDS on it!!!............Well maybe not but it sure can't hurt. Think about it.......................PLEASE...............and send your entry into one of these matches. SAM

Thanks for the support Buff. I went back and looked at some of my older e-mails to my Area director about this very subject(I keep the important ones) and here is his response to my asking....(2 years ago) This is NOT a direct quote but you folks will get the picture. Thanks for asking, I don't really support the revolver division because it is not doing anything for USPSA.....or hurting so since we have it already on the books, I'm inclined to leave it alone for now. That was 2 years ago, and I still have the same Area Director (6) and from the answer above, if this ever comes to a head it appears his vote will be to eleminate the division. So..... everyone do as Buff did, and send Voight, and the rest of the B.O.D. a quick not just saying if nothing else, leave it alone and see if it will continue the small but obvious growth. Sam Keen

The USPSA classifier system says this was a 75.6048 % instead of the 157% of the OHIO calculator. FYI. SAM

OK you Florida guys make your own damn thread and quit Hi-Jacking ours !!!! Matt, Ferrell....UPDATE while there is still a little time for some to make plans....... Any room left in the class???? ECT..... Man do I have to do EVERYTHING !!!! SAM

Ray, what about the level III thing???????? The sooner they decide, the longer we have time to drum up some shooters (from near and far)!!!! Oh, and I guess that Matt Burkett thing will be OK too. SAM KEEN

Walt.... Mac will likely hop on squad 9, I will tell Johnny Brister to get on 9 as well. I guess DA and Mini DA will also join you.............5 already in 1 squad. Match is going to be HOT with even HOTTER shooting !!!!!!! I promise I will give every single one of you credit for every shot you fire......GOOD or BAD. See you cats there. SAM

Carmoney, In response to your post number 89. +++++++11111111 I have been trying to get more participation and interest in the Revo Division for the last nearly 3 years now...................for I could see the writing on the wall back then. It is about time others notice and get in on it. I don't know if my ranting and raving in the past has done a damn bit of good, but since then there has been a almost doubling of Master class revolver shooters and this year alone The matches I have shot have all at least doubled the number of revolver shooters compared to last....Seems pretty good to me........200% growth, If we do it again next year that will be pretty impressive........hell this year is pretty impressive............any other divisions seen that kind of growth? take the Mississippi state match for example.... Revolver shooters in 2005...............3 Revolver shooters in 2006...............17 Some might say "well 17 is not that many" but that is 500+% increase in participation. So like Carmoney says, and I have said in the past..... Get out there with your guns, make friends with the other shooters and promote shooting a Revolver in USPSA...........IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE !!!!!! Also contact your AD and have a polite and honest discussion about the subject, tell him what you would like to see, and listen to what he would like to see and then go from there. My suggestion to the BOD. It is obvious there is interest in the Revolver division (as all the others) and yes the revolver division is the smallest Division by numbers in USPSA. Yes there is discourse among the membership of USPSA about the number of divisions within USPSA, does it warrant tossing the lowest just because the biggest most popular divisions shadow them? Likely not. I started this game shooting Limited, and still do but somewhere in there I started shooting a revolver and it has gotten into my blood. So If it can do this to me, it can do this to others, and Vise Versa. Let's give the Single Stack provisional division its time, and then make a decision on it. Carmoneys informal poll has some merit (a little) and maybe if the BOD would implement those changes and sit back and see if what interest and growth that seems to be happening goes on and gets bigger or just sits there take some kind of action if it warrants it. I have no problem with the 5 divisions as they are, a little tweek here and there of equipment rules may be needed but they pretty well cover any gun I can buy and then use in USPSA. Just a few thoughts from a dummy that shoots!!!!(a revolver, a LTD gun, a production gun and other guns) SAM KEEN

Damn, Gone for just a little while and all this stuff comes up. First of all I want to thank Bruce and Gary both for listening to what us few vocal revolver shooters have to say. THANKS!!! My AD and I have not had a face to face conversation about the fate of just the revolver division, I have sent him several ideas and got the "Thanks", but I have a feeling he is not to partial to all the divisions ect. My take on this and I'll see ya later. ON separate National matches...... 2 are only needed..... 1 Race gun.....Open....Limited....Limited-10(It has the same equipment rules as limited only 10 rounds so it is still a race gun) 2 Production....REVOLVER....and the others Just funning....Single stack if it lasts, and Production. Every body who attends a Nationals (or both) can find a division to shoot. as for getting rid of any divisions....... It will not happen for at least 2 more years, single stack is on a 3 year program until then the BOD has to sit back and watch the numbers....BUT then LOOK OUT !!!!! On having so many divisions..............SO WHAT? If someone want to shoot a gun in USPSA and is a MEMBER of USPSA.................LET them shoot the DAMN THING!!!!!!! as for participation of shooting "Action Pistol" with a revolver...... LOOK at ICORE........it took them 14 years to get 200 shooters to a Nationals match but they did!!!!! (seems like their prize table is quite generous too) YES, USPSA is NOT ICORE, but it does show there is more interest in shooting them things at a "Nationals" match if there was a way to shoot it and not be torn to shoot in another division. Shannon Smith(some guy from Florida that is easily in the 10 best Limited shooters) personally asked M. Voight to make Revolver Div Nationals seperate from Limited so he could shoot REVO ...........HMMMMMM...........AND I know many others that would do the same thing if it was available. I have often thought about how to make the smaller divisions (notice I said DivisionS) larger at the Nationals and the same thing keeps coming back to me..... SLOTS are the key!!!! Each division has to have their own number of slots available, not first come first served pretty much the way it has been or it will always be the same. My take on Revolver participation...... To shoot a revolver in USPSA you have to be either, "touched", a masochist, or just trully Passionate about one of these things..........I fall in the "touched" catagory. There will NEVER be as much participation in USPSA with a revolver just because most think it is too hard to shoot, requires too many reloads or some other silly reason that they decide is good enough to not try one..............GOOD FOR THEM, AS LONG as they are SHOOTING SOMETHING IN USPSA !!!!!!!! Bruce you yourself gave one of the biggest reasons I hear........."I can't see the sights". but what is the most popular division in USPSA??????? and what kind of sighting system does those guns use?????? So what do we do????? LEAVE IT ALL ALONE!!!!!! When the 3 years are up on the SS experiment make a decision on it. But the other "small divisions" have a place and yes maybe they take up a small place but they are still willing shooters who just want to shoot. Maybe with time and better technology scoring and such will be more effecient and easier. I can ask several of the "older" shooters if they remember doing scores on a calculator. SAM KEEN, JUST A DUMMY THAT SHOOTS..........A revolver sometimes.

Six Shot, I like that Idea. The best place to do that would be the Nationals, but slots are pretty well gone, and I'm running my Limited gun this year. The next best would be A-2 but slots for it are so "iffy" also to try something similar. I do know Jerry and I will be shooting the Louisana gator classic in October and I will be running either my 25-2 or one of my 625s, bring as many other wheelgunners with you as the more the merrier. Also Elliot Eysen(SP) another M will be there....btw I'm not a M except in dumb azz. I also would suggest Carmoneys Iowa Revolver championship, but Jerry won't be there as far as I know....seems like he's just a little busy. And I'll be at the North Carolina Section match (level III) if I'm shooting a match that weekend. Don't worry, I'm not offended by the comment and just wish we all could get together and have a big ole real revolver match with all the fun and comradery that I know will be at a match like that. Now back on the subject, Bigdeer made a pretty good point.....what if Jerry never had shot a revolver? and was shooting say Limited or Production? Would we be looking at the current list of Masters and saying "Since there is no GM in USPSA revolver, these guys need to be it?"....Who knows? I personally would like to see out own data base and then let the "classifications" fall where the do. but what do I know? I'm just a dummy that shoots. SAM KEEN

since this topic is quite important and I have been told it is quite active I have been checking in on you guys. Regarding the 500 limit........ a 5 inch 610 is still a 610, as is a 3 " and a 6" ect......should be no problems there. and Personally I don't care if there is a 500 limit, seems to work for the LTD division though, they keep coming up with all new kinds of "new stuff to try" but the Plain Jane Para Ordnance straight out of the box can and will be competitive....In someones hands that can make it competitive. remember the K.I.S.S. meathod and there is usually very little problems, start putting all kinds of special rules and things will get "crazy" very quickly Pat makes a good point in the "GM" thread.....If you are getting beat, practice!!!! or as he said it..."try harder". as long as it is 6 reload shoot 6 there will be no real "tricks of the day" as far as equipment goes. I have contacted my Area Director and forwarded this thread to him, how many others of you have done so.....they need to know what the most visual, and active revolver shooters would like to take this division in the future. SAM

Gary Stevens, I was informed you asked.......and it is important enough that I drop in. Equipment........................Make it like the Limited Division, 500+ of a model and it is good to go. Aftermarket replacement parts.................OK Modifcations............................................OK NO OPTICS.........(like now) NO PORTS, COMPS or any other recoil device of similar type (like now) 7 & 8 shooters allowed, but mandantory reload after 6 shots (like now) Minimum caliber for Major PF......38/357 Holster rules OK as they are. Since I have your attention. Could you see what can be done to the Classifier Data Base? Revolvers are so different from any of the self feeding pistols that it is not right to even compare classifaction data to each type. The only GM in Revolver Division is MR. MICULEK.....and well deserved. USPSA deems it that when a major match marks that the match score go in as a classifier, and he's there he gets the 100%....again well deserved, he did win. BUT !!!!! If you take all those 100% away and use his results from just classifiers he has an average of 89%+/-. THE BEST in the WORLD and when compared to the Limited division, just barely a master??????? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE????? Our own president called them "silly guns" on National Television, what does that do to the guy who is interested in our sport (USPSA) and all he has is his trusty 686 to start with???? Revolver Division is experiencing an obvious interest,(and growing pains) Let's not regulate it so much that only the true enthusiasts will want to participate. Thanks for your help. SAM KEEN

Max and Travis will be holding a double Impact custom course in conjunction with the Tennessee Section Match the last weekend in August at Memphis TN. The Friday of the match the 14 students will work with Max and Travis at the CRSSA range in Glen, mississippi .....Just East of Corinth Ms (zip 38834) and then Friday evening travel to the Memphis area and get ready for the TN section match. Fees for this course is $425 and that does not include the Tn section match. It is first come first served for the 14....Make that 13 as there is already 1 paid Information at max's website.....www.maxmichel.com or the Crssa website.......www.crssa.com....click on schedules and then the old double impact link.....info is the same except the price and place of the match. (oh and there will be cold water but no lunch at that price) You can talk to Max on his forums here: http://www.maxmichel.com/forum/index.php Good luck, have fun, come prepared to learn. So get your applications in to Max for the Double Impact course and Bill Grewe for the TN section match as it is first come first served. More info on the TN section match on these forums in the Pistol match anouncements. SAM KEEN

Good News !!!!!!!! Max and Travis will be at the Tennessee Section having a Double Impact Custom Course in conjuction with the Tennessee Section match. The Friday of the match, Max and Travis and 14 lucky shooters will work one day at the Cross Roads Sport shooting Assn (www.crssa.com) in Glen, Mississippi........just east of Corinth, Mississippi (zip code 38834). Saturday and Sunday the 14 shooters will squad up with Max or Travis and shoot the Tennessee Section match with Max and Travis giving advice, Critique, and good "Vibes". It will be first come first served so get your applications in to Max and Bill Grewe(TN match director). You can find more information at www.maxmichel.com or get on his forums here: http://www.maxmichel.com/forum/index.php You can also find hotel info for Corinth at the CRSSA website.....click on the old double impact link. By the way......there are now only 13 spots left. Fee for this is $425 and that does not include the TN match. Good luck, bring a desire to IMPROVE !!!! SAM KEEN

All: Thanks for the Kind words....I am not mad at ANYBODY, just extemely frustrated in myself for not being able to convey my thoughts in a positive and useable manner. to those who sent e-mails, PMs, and phone calls....THANKS it helps. DKOL........Jack is a great wheelgunner and knows what he's doing. Just a little to preoccupied with the PPC stuff right now to do the USPSA thing any good. Your kind words and expression of interest means a whole bunch to me, I will be in from time to time but won't be a "regular" again until I get some things straightened out. Again, Thanks....Shoot straight, shoot fast, Shoot Safe.........BUT HAVE FUN !!!!!! SAM KEEN P.S. Chris.....I got faith in you

After another episode of not being able to put down on paper what I'm seeing in my hard head, and pissing off several people whom I had no intentions to piss off or offend I'll be taking leave of these fine forums. I would rather have you fine folks as friends, than as someone I can say I used to know just because I can't explain what I'm trying to explain and it still not come out the way I want it to. Maybe one day I can be articulate, until then....see you on a range somewhere. Shoot good, shoot safe, and HAVE FUN !!!!! SAN KEEN...........Used to be Hopalong

Big Daves original question was if the "GM of choice started shooting NRA action pistol would you?".....NOT the exact words but close enough for me. Dave, I can see you are quite passionate about your AP.....good for you, good luck at it. My answer......not that it really matters but since you asked. NO, I only have enough time and money to do USPSA and a few IDPA programs. If every GM that ever was in USPSA started shooting Action Pistol tomorrow, I still would not do it for the above reasons. I know how well cross training in other disciplines work and have kept that secret to myself for as long as I could, but the cat is out of the bag now. I live in South West Tennessee, and as far as I know there is no range within reasonable driving distance where this discipling of shooting is offered.....(another reason to not shoot it) and my local club is already full every weekend with some sort of event. Hope that helps you to understand, I too had to cope with a similar situation when I switched over to Revolver in USPSA and wondered why we can't get more participation in that particular division.....there are already thousands of folks shooting USPSA...why not use a revolver???...............You can see where I'm coming from. I now understand that most people do what they do because they have only X amount of time and money to do so and thus the answer we can't seem to understand (until now). Clear as mud I know but that is the comparison I can give you. Hopalong

See the thread in What I like about Julie working for Smith & Wesson now. The part I hope comes out of this is....... Will her past history as a shooter help the revolver division in any way???? Get more guns? Us Competition shooters get more input with S&W about thier product instead of the "what would Bubba want?" type stuff they have put out in the near past. Get more reruns of guns made in the past that are not offered anymore....(25s, 610 classics ect)? Smith and Wesson putting pressure on USPSA/IPSC to promote the revolver division better................Like they(USPSA) are really pushing it any way.....OOps sorry I didn't say that. LET'S HOPE SO. Congratulations Julie, with you there at least we know our voices won't fall on deaf ears(like it seems to have in the past) Hopalong

45!!!! Ha! You old GEEZER. Dan is pretty close to Damian......They both start and stop with the same letters. Happy Birthday to all of you....including THE Master Danbagger ........good thing you made Master....You are getting to old to have gotten it any later. Hopalong

Congratulations on the new job J-Go!!!! I hope it is a wonderfull and exciting endeavor, I know you are up for the challenge! I just hope you still get time to burn some powder every now and then. and for the folks wondering what you will shoot....... You never know, she may show up with a tricked out 646 shooting .40 S&W minor.....already used to a Double action only gun.....and used to shooting Minor too. MY bet is she'll be running a M&P though. Good luck with the new job!!!!! Hopalong/SAM

Oh, Look who is here!!!!!! A revolver shooter in Disguse. Mike, Congrats on the Limited Division win!!!!!! NOW after you make Master in LTD you can come out of the closet and start shooting a real.....wheel gun. HOP

i don't know what happened, I had also put some content into this...and I know I did not post it that many times.....so I'll just add it here. Congrats to Lefty45 on his first Major win!!!!!!!! It has been about a year since I have seen him shoot and he as improved dramaticly! This just goes to show us that not only do we have to watch out for Tom Mainus(another lefty) we also have to watch out for Phil. Another Lefty I got to chat with was Wlkthduk, and his pretty daughter Diana, whom was still shooting her Glock...and doing pretty good with it too!!! I got to see all the other wheelgunners, good to see you and keep up the good work!!! Airedale, sorry it didn't work out that you could shoot....but good to see you anyway. Mods......(FLEX) could you please delete the other posts????? Again, Congrats to Phil for his first Major, of many more to come. HOP

Hang in there Jeff, You are doing good!!!!! Good to see you again. HOP

Great match!!!! Got to see some new faces, and see some old familiar faces....good to see you guys/gals I like the 2 day format mixed in with the 1 day option, may be other matches need to look at that format too???? Good job guys. See you in Memphis in August. HOPALONG

Harald, You may want to try the Precision Delta bullets, I have been using the a while and really like them. They are not exactly round nose and they have a very small flat spot on the front, similar to the Montana Gold round nose but even smaller. If I still had my 610 that is what I would use, They are accurate in every gun I have shot them in and Amazing in my Limited gun. I use the 230 grn in my .45 caliber stuff and they are great in all them. Look here..... http://uspsa.org/ammo Good luck with the search. Hop Btw these folks are the same ones who provide the match ammo program for USPSA. Ask for Joe and tell him Sam sent you........won't get you any bullets cheaper, but he gives me a cap every now and then to keep my bald head from getting sun burnt. Hop