Carlos

Bill: my chrono tests confirm your department's findings. We did not get as large a velocity increase as I had hoped, but there were no decreases. In addition, I am using a standard AR-15A2 buffer with my Colt brand 9mm upper; there is a heavier buffer Made by Colt for use with its blowback AR-15. A heavier buffer *can* increase velocity slightly and I plan to get the 9mm buffer sometime. I was also dissapointed w/ the V V manual load mentioned by GMin prod. above; its certainly hot, but I thought the slow N350 powder would really cook in a 16 in tube. Same with the Norma manufactured Danish surplus subgun ammo we tried; its berdan w/ a copper coated steel jacket 107 grn bullet and what appears to be a VV powder I have never seen (aren't Norma and VV owned by same company?). Since this ammo was made for a relatively long SMG barrel, I was hoping for a big velocity increase over a GLock 19. The inrease was not that great - certainly less than the 175 FPS you mentioned. I suppose I had unrealistic expectations for the 9mm AR. Will look for the numbers at home to give you a specific idea.

Any update on the Walther Quick Action Trigger version of the P99? Is it Production approved and if so, where would one find it for sale? Agree w/ comments about recent SW autos; My brother's Sigma is such a close Glock copy that the slide fits the rails on my Glock but God, what a piece of crap that Sigma is! Jams constantly and the trigger is shaped badly so that it seems to pull the whole gun downward upon each heavy pull. I would not bet on the SW99 being any better. The real P99 w/ QA trigger however . . . anyone?

Neil: another thanks for the input from the UK; I understand that since the handgun ban, ISPC shotgun has become the dominant sport. Whenever you travel to this side of the pond, rest assured there will be an assortment of Glocks, 1911s, ARs, etc. waiting for you at my house if you are up for a practice day or local match in the DC area.

RCBS has off the shelf stuff; believe Wideners has it in stock (look at http://www.uspsa.com under vendors) Do a google search on something like 50 BMG cal shooters association - they have a site w/ helpful forum. Believe Redding, possibly others make custom high precision 50BMG loading equip.

Duane wrote: "I didn't discuss the matter with Hodgdon, I discussed it with Allan Jones, editor of the Speer Rifle & Pistol Reloading Manual." Thanks for the post(s) Duane! Your original post was thorough enough that it stuck in my memory (the gist of it anyway) Speer did the test? Even better! I am not aware of an aliance b/t Speer and Hodgdon; the fact that Speer conducted the test lends it greater credibility. Good work. "And I didn't just claim to do it, I did [it]." As good as this site is, it is still the internet; one can understand approaching information (especially regarding reloading matters) with due scepticism; sorry if I offended you. Regarding Hodgdon, one will find many fans and users (past and present) of Hodgdon powder, including our host, who at one time used Hodgdon - though not sure what he shoots these days; BE?

The Russian Silver bear will do it out of my gun; I chronoed it a few weeks back. Its actually a 145 grain JHP bullet and it was not reliable in MY colt AR upper (your results may vary); jamming several times in a 40 round mag. Little recoil though, and it convinced me that 147 grn is the way to go.

Point well taken, Vince; World 3gn venue is TBD. If anyone is taking bets, please put $5 Dollars/Euros on the US for me. Agree on the wad issue that plastic wad trash is or will become an inescapable environmental problem. Much like the looming switch to lead free shooting, it is a hassle we are going to have to accept someday and I do not believe that once it is fazed in over time and ammo is available, that will have a great impact on the sport as it is known today. If they are made available, I can adapt to fiber wads in USPSA or IPSC w/o a major problem. As for the far flung future, lets hope the International Olympic Committee idea of "gun powder free" Olypic shooting sports never becomes reality. Trap and skeet w/ BB guns?? No thank you.

Do a search on "titegroup" and you will find a post by a regular BE member who claimed to have discussed it w/ Hodgdon techs. They claimed TG was the cleanest powder they had ever tested, although in my experience, straight Clays left my gun and fired cases cleaner than TG. In its favor, TG shoots as soft as Clays in my gun, it meters well, and it goes a long way (cheap to use). Be careful w/ TG's tiny powder charges - it seems possible to mistakenly triple charge many loads w/ TG on account of the small volume it takes up in the case. I think Clays is the ultimate .45 powder for any bullet over 200 grains; the .45 is low pressure and Clays has proven very safe for me (no pressure signs in .45).

I did the numbers a few months back and 7.62x39 was just barely below major for published loads (then again, everyone knows that 38 super can't safely be loaded to major according to published data!). The 7.62 mags used in the AR seem to be the issue; check out Glen Zediker's excellent AR book about PPC cals as to mag reliability. Even with the best mags, capacity seems limited to 26 (still better than the FAL's 20, but not as good as a .223 Sterling 40 rounder). 3 more thoughts: The 300 Whisper loaded w/ .308 cal bullets in the 125 range comes close to the 7.62x39. Would it make major? Maybe. Works in any .223 mag w/ same capacity. The old wildcat .223x6mm (necked up to 6mm) might come close to major - so would the PPCs but then you are back to mag problems and LTD capacity. I think Kelly used a modified FAL in 308x6.5 (AKA 260 Rem) in the last nats - and did quite well! The AR-10 in that cal w/ a good comp might be just the ticket. D. Afterthought - make sure barreled upper has a .308 bore and not the larger .311 up to .314 barrel bore since bullet selection is limited w/ larger bore. I know Mini 30s had .308 barrels - I think Colt brand also used .308 and NOT the .311 bore found on AKs/ other factory 7.62 guns.

Reviewed the proposed IPSC shotgun rules posted on USPSA.org/members. I realize that those are IPSC rules, not USPSA. But I have to take issue w/ some of the proposals; For example, proposed rule 2.1.9.6 states: "It shall not be permissible to shoot solid slug ammunition at steel plates." Although there seems to be an earlier caveat about shooting slugs at poppers, the part about slugs never being used on steel, well that is short-sighted. This rule is pre-mature; especially in light of the new frangible slugs under development (though do they define what they mean by "solid" slug??!?). As shotgun stands here in the US, we use solid lead slugs on steel plates at ranges as close as 40 yards without incident. I know there have been low-velocity roll-back issues at past 3guns, but I believe that the targets in question were much closer than 40 yards. An outright ban is not called for. Moreover, allowing slugs on poppers and not steel plates makes little sense to me; I have seen a rapid follow up shot on a popper hit the popper while it was falling at a 45 degree angle; at which point it was effectively a launching ramp for the slug! (good argument for forward falling poppers) Have never seen that happen with a steel plate. Moreover, the part about some matches requiring "fiber wads" is too much; I have not seen a fiber wad in years (other than the ones attached to the base of Brenneke type slugs) and would not even guese where to buy them/how to load one. Where did such a rule come from? Are environmental rules in Europe driving some of these changes? I'd like to hear the thoughts of our fellow IPSC shooters from the UK as to what they think of these rules. On a side note, they seem to propose eliminating comps from limited rifle unless factory installed as original equipment. Another arbitration bait rule, IMHO. Please take a look at the propose IPSC (not USPSA) rules and contact Mike V. w/ your thoughts (good, bad, or otherwise) prior to the World Shoot in SA. This matters as we will soon see the world 3 gun competition come to the US; these rules WILL affect US competitors in that venue. DVC, D. (Edited by Carlos at 10:11 am on Aug. 22, 2002)

Dry fire will not hurt the Ruger MK II or the 22/45 because the round cross pin that goes through the firing pin stops the tip of the firing pin from hitting the chamber. Could it ever wear enough from dry firing so that contact occurred? I suppose. I've never seen it. No idea if the old Ruger MKI had the same feature. Don't drop the slide on a 1911 w/o a round or snap cap fed from the mag. Doing so will damage trigger components.

On the Standard team? Phil Strader (Phil who?) will win, hands down. As for the Junior team? Don't bet against Chris Tilley; that kid can fly!

Skip the Hybrid ports - willing to bet the Hodgdon test barrel did not have them! If its slow you want, wait until a big match an try a pound of VVN105 - Check out there website since it has gobs of data. I think you will be pleased.

CyberSeal - Welcome to Area 8. Good to hear you are a Shooter's Paradise customer. Rest assured, Phil Strader has some of the most knowledgeable shooters in the area working for him; you'll find excellent advice at Shooter's Paradise. Moreover, both the store and the range have undergone extensive improvement now that Phil owns the place and you can expect to see the improvements continue. You will likely see a rifle-friendly indoor range within the next year or so. There may even be indoor USPSA competitions held there at some point in the future. As for carry options, I carry strong side with a belt holster with one caveat: driving. When I am in the car, my seat belt effectively prevents me from drawing my gun. They may have invented car jacking in Detroit, but guys in the DC area have refined it to an art. Drawing a gun while seated in your car could be a life-saver. Talk to Phil or another employee at Shooter's Paradise about the use of a fanny pack holster or another carry option for use in the car. One more note about Shooter's Paradise: it is USPSA and IDPA friendly. Unlike most of the indoor ranges in the DC area (with the exception of the NRA range) you are welcome to practice safe, strong-side draw from the holster at Shooter's Paradise. In addition, the staff are mostly competitive shooters (who all have CCWs) who can give you excellent advice on equipment. If you are into competition, drop me an e-mail and I'll meet you at one of the local shoots. Fortunatly, in this area there is a match nearly every weekend within 2 hours drive. Regards, D. PS - Hey Kyle! Good post as to SP.

The only correctly-fit and truly worn out slide I have ever seen came off my brother's Argentine 1911A1 in .45 (not that Balister thingy) that was used as an academy training gun; only God knows how many rounds that gun has seen! The lugs in the slide eventually rounded just enough to where the slide unlocks from the barrel a little too quickly and now the gun blows primers out of the cases of reloads and some factory loads. We had a new Kart barrel put in with a good tight link fit; same thing happens. It still worked 100%, but the slide is absolutly done. Short of the problems mentioned or excessive dropping-slide-on-empty wear, a slide should not crack. Thnaks for posting the pictures. BTW, where do you live?

Ron is on the money; send whatever mags you find to Bevin. No, he is not the cheapest, just the best. Now, to answer your questions: best reliability and best capacity. Leave the reliability to Bevin. He will replace whatever internals you send with his own internals. As for capacity? 2 tricks to gain a round or two: 1) send Bevin your .40 Smith and Wesson caliber preban mags along with 140mm replacement tubes made for the .45ACP. This is not a misprint. Why would you do that??!? Because: Bevin can re-shape the .45 tubes to work with the .40 cal and usually get an extra round by doing so. 2) Try to find some really old smooth sided tubes - the ones without the double dents STI uses or the single dents found on current SV mags. Again, why use those??!? Because: Bevin can re-work and polish the old tubes and in conjunction with Bevin's internals, these tubes usually hold more rounds than the newer mags. So what is the downside? The older mags sometimes bulge at full capacity and when they are fully loaded to the brim, they do not always "drop free" due to bulging - thus, guys complained and S_I added the dents/ribs. My smooth sided mags stick from bulging when full and always drop free once 1 or 2 rounds have been fired. Funny, I have never run into a stage requiring me to drop a fully loaded mag, I guese I tend to reload once a shot or two (or more) has been fired; must just be one of my quirks - so much for the "non drop free" problem. Best of luck!

Sounds like what you seek is a cheap factory 147 because you tried a 147 load that was more accurate than cheap 115s in your gun. Why was it more accurate? Was it the feel of a 147 over a 115 perhaps? I can appreciate that; the heavier bullets seem to push more than snap upon recoil and that can lead to less flinch. You decide. As for cheap factory9mm 147s, I see 4 possible loads: 1) Federal Am. Eagle 147 2) UMC (Remington) Yellow Box 147 3) Win. white box 147 4) Russian Silver Bear (Note: see below!!) Now, the Russian stuff has a chrome-plated case. Under the chrome, there is a berdan primed STEEL case. Everybody knows the Russian steel cased ammo will wear out your gun lickity-split right?!?! Wrong. It's mild steel and about as soft (or softer) than some brass; it all depends on the alloy and heat treatment. Besides, chrome is far more hard than brass or steel yet no one seems worried about chromed brass cases so why the paranoia about steel?? Back in the day we shot and reloaded WWII surplus .45 steel cases all the time; no, our extractors did not break off every other shot - that was an old wives tale. But I digress. Anyway, buy one of the 1st three loads listed; the Russian stuff is loaded too hot.

You did not mention brand or bullet style, but since the weight is 155 (not 152) I assume you are talking about the sintered Iron powder, copper-electroplated rounded flat point by WestCoast bullet. Tried them in .45ACP w/ titegroup and have been impressed with the shooting quality. If price comes down, I may switch to them entirely. These are a rounded flat point design (same design as used by the top guys) and in .45, they are quite large for the weight - about like a 260grn lead bullet. Seemed like Titegroup would be a good propellant for the ltd case volume. Got to about 160 Powerfactor first time out and both function and accuracy were very good. Expiramented with the lead National bullet 152 SWCs some time ago - these were once the darlings of many of the .45 open gun shooters - they really got the comp working. For my limited gun, the 152s lacked the quality control and involved too much loading hassle to bother with - I switched to the plated bullets. Now the new sintered bullets, well we shall see.

Thanks very much for the excellent report, Guenther! You have given me much to think about. I began shooting here in the US, but I always shot foreign-made, double action pistols. Although I bought my Glock M19 back when they were first imported, I did not own a 1911/single action until last year! Here in the US, I have lived with those who think the only gun worth owning is a 1911 and that it is the best gun for all purposes - I think this comes from the "Cult of Jeff Cooper" - a cult I managed to stay out of even though I think my STI Edge is about the perfect tool for USPSA limited competition. Still, I choose to carry the Glock and trust it with my life. As a fan of foreign guns, it is of interest to me what European shooters choose to compete with. In your last post, I was surprised that you did not mention the HK and that you did mention the Jericho. The 9mm Jericho looks like it has a long, heavy dust cover like my STI. Perhaps when I bought the Steyr, I selected the wrong 9mm for production class?? I think I will keep the Steyr (because I am able to own as many handguns as I like in the US - for now anyway) but I will also consider competing with a different 9mm - maybe even buy another model Glock like the M17 or M34 for production class. Anyway, thank you again for the report. I hope that you can visit the US someday. If you are ever near the capital, please give me a call; I'll lend you one of my pistols and as many practice rounds as you can shoot!

Besides AS and JP (support the sport!) if you decide to build yourself an upper, Gunsmoke out of Florida has a good reputation. I shoot a John Holliger (White Oak Precision) upper that was built partly on RRA parts (its really designed for DCM/CMP however). New-guy-on-the-AR-block Les Baer seems to have trouble with customer service; have never heard of him supporting USPSA. And from personal experience, avoid Hesse Arms like the plague! Hesse is the absolute worst, bar none! Note: there seem to be 3 "sight" camps: small dot, low power optic, or both. If you have searched here (looks like you have done your homework) then the arguments for all camps have been revealed.

Both Erics and Dedmon: I use OneShot and I do the same thing! (tumble to remove lube). About 15 min in corncob is all it takes, and I only do that for match ammo. I am shooting 45ACP at the 165 PF - in a round that can easily handle 200 PF loads - so I am not too woried about slight increases caused by powder breakdown after 15 min. Often, I will gauge all match ammo and then plce it in a silicon cloth and rub together a bit - seems to make rounds quite slick.

Surprisingly, European Fiocci ammo is quite popular for 3 gun in Area 8. We mostly use #6 shot though I have used #8 in a pinch - with the exception of the heavy steel tombstones found at the 3gun nationals (they seem to require #4 or #5).

Thanks very much Guenther! Your English is excellent and I appreciate your help as well as your transleation into my native language. Please share with us the knowledge you discover about the Steyr in IPSC competition, and in particular, any modifications to improve the trigger. While the Glock is well-known in Production here in the States, I am curious as to what model gun wins in European competition (does anyone bother with the Steyr?). Regards, Douglas

Taurus: I look forward to the results of your test! I hope the forum has been helpful to you. Now I have a favor to ask that only you (or perhaps another European/International IPSC shooter) can fulfil. Question: I'd like to know if anyone makes a lighter trigger for the Steyr M-9 9mm? As we all know, there are a number of manufacturers who make and sell 3.5Lb Glock trigger bars; is there a similar light competition trigger part made for the 9mm Steyr? Unfortunately, the Steyr M-Series has not caught on in the US as much as say, the Glock or even the Croatian HS2000 (AKA the Springfield XD). Consequently, there are fewer accessories available here. What about in Vienna? I realize you are a 1911 shooter, but I would imagine many of the IPSC production class competitors in Vienna would choose the Steyr M-series. Thanks in advance for any info you can offer, and thanks also for adding an international flare to BE.com! Regards, Douglas

Detlef: I should really leave German to those who actually speak the language (obviously I do not). Good point about the SWCs; I started reloading and shooting in USPSA with lead 200 SWCs, then switched to plated 200SWCs and even tried the National Bullet 152 SWCs for a time - definitly required spring changes! Very cool that you are able to offer on-the-money advice - in German! That is why I love this site. Gracias para clarificarlo; estuve equivicado. (Thanks for clearing that up; I was mistaken). Actually I am an Anglo/gringo (take your pick); I just speak Spanish; earned my degree in Latin American Area Studies and lived in South America for a time (Chile). Interesting side note: while in Argentina the November before last, I visited a gunshop staffed by IPSC shooters and checked out some very nice custom 1911 race guns. Hope we will see more international competitors venturing to the US in the future. D.