Carlos

Brake cleaner - very mild stuff that acts as a degreaser and is highly volatile. It has to be formulated to be so mild that it will not affect the things it is expected to drip on like tires, brake pad materials, wheel paint, etc. It will not hurt your guns but it could make a mess of wood grips. Carb cleaner - bad juju. It will dislove many plastics, remove paint and some gun finishes, ruin wood, swell rubber, do God-knows-what to a Glock frame. Be sure you do not confuse the two when you go to the auto parts store.

Comparative perceived recoil - you have really knocked over a can of worms here! I will let those who have actually shot BOTH guns chime in and fight it out over which one they perceived as having less recoil. However, in general, a given gun will have lower recoil (all else being equal - which it never is) if the bore-axis is lower. Notice on Jeff Maass' site and on every article ever written on the right grip for IPSC that there is an emphasis on getting your hands "as high on the gun as possible". That is another way of saying "move hands closer to axis of the bore!". Now, a gun with a very "low" axis of the bore is the HK P7; and while it is not generally found among the list of winning guns these days, few experts will argue that the low bore axis helps atenuate the gun's recoil. (please don't start that gas-assisted/recoil debate again - that is not relavent to bore axis - I only used HK as an example due to its bore axis). An example of a gun with a relatively "high" bore axis is the Sig - there are those who shoot them well, but in general, the bore is much higher than would be ideal. BTW, if attenuating recoil did not matter or allow you to shoot faster, there would be no difference between the times for Open and the limited classes - especially considering the dying class of Modified where one can compare compensated and non-compensated Major .40s. The Glock and custom 1911s both do a good job of allowing a shooter a high grip; the XD is nearly identical to the bore axis of a Glock. Where the Croatian made HS2000 (aka "XD") differs from the Glock is the shape of the grip. The guns you mentioned are close - close enough that it will come down to persoanll preference. Sorry, but you will have to try them both out and decide for yourself. While I own and shoot Glocks, I applaud the Croatians (err - Springfield) for launching there own competitions - even going so far as to supply the guns and ammo. Yeah, I know its motivated by marketing, but its still promotion of handgun shooting competition (i.e. practice for those of us who need more trigger time).

I suppose I too am a refugee and can tell you how much state laws can vary: After growing up in Maryland and buying a Glock when I was in my early 20s, I got a job in New York state. Result: Handgun ownership banned w/o a state permit after a lengthy safety class and carry permits issued on a "if we feel like it" basis. Transfered Glock to a relative. Then I got a job offer inside the DC beltway meaning I could choose to live back in MD, DC, or Virginia: Washington D.C. New Private ownership of all firearms banned; import banned, no exception for new residents - only those long guns owned by DC residents prior to 1987 excepted. What did I expect from a city that elected a crack smoking mayor 3 times ? (once AFTER he had served his prison term!). That was out. MD: long standing 2 week waiting period (that could take up to 4 weeks) for handguns and some "assault rifles" bans by comittee on useless "saternight specials" - useless like my excellent Kel-Tec P-32; Carry permits restricted to the politically conected and generally so difficult to get that no one bothers; a ban on handguns from companies that don't comply w/ MD requirement to supply a "fingerprint" spent caseing w/ new guns; and get this - a total ban on all handguns without INTERNAL locks after the first of the year - gee that means you will only be able to buy a few models of S&W or Taurus revolvers and some day be able to get the new Glocks w/ internal lock. Don't believe that the Brady campaign is really all about banning guns? Think again - Maryland is proof. That left one state as an option: my beloved Viginia; home of NRA HQ; a "shall issue" carry permit state that generally honors my constitutional rights. To those who think that we will continue to enjoy our rights without a major, ongoing fight, think again. Support the gun ownership group of your choice and do not hesitate to express your opinion at the ballot box, through your representatives, and through the media. If we ignore our rights, I feel confident that they will eventauly go away.

255s in .45 ACP for Bowling pins - I tried that a few years back too! I generally agree w/ Jeff that selecting components for the need st hand is that way to go - HOWEVER, for my expirament a few years back, the only data I could find for that load WITH a powder for sale around here - was Win 231 data out of a Lee manual. Buying the "right" powder was not an option. I was not going to spend $15 dollars to try out a powder, pay another $17 for hazmat, and wait a week or two all for the sake of an expirament I could do with components I had on hand. I have long advocated the use of modern powders like V V, Vectan, some Hodgdon powders, etc., but I realize from my net experience that shooters seem to follow the concept of "If the powder is not for sale within driving distance, then its not for sale as far as I am concerned!" - so much for pitching the virtues of modern powder. Anyway, it was Lee approved data for lead 255s, in my case, Bul-X brand 255 FP that feature a distinct crimping groove - so that groove is where I set OAL (believe it matched OAL in manual - I never exceed manual specs.) Will not quote the exact number of grains beyond my unconfirmed belief that it was a hair above 5 grains of 231 and a max load - strangely, Lee listed the same starting and max load. Anyway, it chronoed exactly at 800 FPS for a PF of 204 and it matched the Lee manual's predicted velocity out of my STI Edge. I did not venture as high as Jeff as far as PF. My loads (OK - Lee's load) was not fun to shoot but it will take Pins off a table just fine.

I work at a training center/range/gunstore and we sell Winchester Range - it is a low-cost parctice load (even less than Winchester "White Box") and is made w/ new Winchester brass, primer, and a 185 grain TC or truncated cone flatpoint low lead bullet. It is a mild load that is not herd on the gun; you will have to buy or borrow a chronograph to see what PF it makes before showing up to a big match with a "chrono stage". .45 is perhaps the easiest/most safe USPSA caliber ot reload - brass lasts forever and safely splits when it wears out; it safely makes 165 PF Major at very low pressure, and is more forgiving of slight reloading errors than say - the hot major 9mms like the 9Supercomp I shoot, the 38 Super, etc. If you decide to reload, you might consider posting a WTB - Dillon over on the USPSA classifieds and see what folks offer you. Alternatively, Brian sells new Dillon gear at excellent prices.

Eric W wrote: "I don't think anyone went to polygonal rifling out of a desire to prevent shooting lead. More likely, it was chosen as a way to manufacture barrels in volume cheaply with a reasonable degree of consistency."" Agree! Add also that Glock managed to create an unusually accurate barrel in a stock gun. "I really like Glock's barrels. The smooth, hammer forged rifling just doesn't collect gunk, which really fits in with my strict gun cleaning regimen: once or twice a year...maybe. "" Again, Eric is 100% correct! I have posted my opinion against any cleaning of stainless match barrels buyond chamber cleaning. Although Glock barrels are made of a harder steal, they do not appear to require cleaning either. ""Also, in 9mm, jacketed bullets are so cheap anymore that there is virtually no financial incentive to mess with lead. You save maybe...a whopping $.50 -$.75 per box."" Not only that, you can't shoot lead at the indoors match and still see your target after a few shots. Honorio - bienvenidos. Lastima i ilogico que no se vende cartuchos en su pais. Si usted nos visite en el EEUU, escribame i te prestare uno de mis armas con todas las cartuchas que pueda disparar.

WooooHooooo! Letter/Invoice from Glock arrived this afternoon: My GSSF Glock Model 17 9mm is shipping out via UPS and will arrive at my FFL soon! (All for $396!!) The invoice lists the serial number in the high range - around "GSSF 9XX" - thus, if Glock is sending these out sequentialy, then it looks like I got one of the last ones they had (supposedly a limited run of 1000 were made). I have never been one to "collect" guns without shooting them so Production class, here we come! Thanks to those here who saved me from the perils of the used gun market.

The real savings will be onece you learn how to re- load accurate, low-recoil slug loads using Lyman's 12 Ga. slug- the one that looks like a big airgun pellet (of course, you will also have to cast these yourself if you want to save $$$). You can load these on standard presses with a NORMAL CRIMP (no, not the complicated roll-crimp that used to take an extra step) and they load into a regular WAA-12 or equivalent wad. Do a search on the reloading section fro more info - I tried this once with store-bought Lyman slugs ($8 for 12 slugs! Oy!) loaded over straight Clays powder and STS hulls but the test rounds got mixed in with another batch of mystery reloads so testing was not done - However, they did work in both a SuperX2 and an 1187. Accuracy will be the key - and with a slug it can be easily tested. If you do decide to reload, get a MEC and avoid Lee's loader - hey, I like and use Lee's other products and endorse their dies, but some things they sell do not work well.

I use Lee dies in my 650. Resizing .45, I use a Lee "U" or undersize CARBIDE die to get a "coke-bottle shape" I use the "U" die with a light spray of Hornady OneShot caselube - yeah, it is not required w/ the carbide die, but it makes the press operate smoothly and w/ less effort. I also use the Lee Factory crimp die in .45ACP - amazing how many rounds get "re-sized" at the very last station in the 650! One tip - the Lee dies would at first appear not to fit in a 650 tool head - threads on dies appear too short. Just re-mount the dies w/ the Lee locking collar UNDER the tool head - wierd huh? Obviously, the locking ring has to be removed from the die first, turned upside down (O-ring "up"), and installed from the bottom of the toolhead. While I think the Dillon 650 is far superior to Lee's progessive 1000 loader, there is nothing wrong w/ Lee's dies and they are the only outfit I am aware of that makes anything like their carbide crimp die or factory crimp die. Thanks Lee!

Will check my data this eveningl I concure that 9x21 loads where the OAL is within 9x19 specs are all fair game for demonstrating what is obvious to the rest of the world: 9x19 loaded to meet major PF (now, even lower!!) is just as safe as any of the other loads we have allowed in USPSA. Can you honestly say that 9x19 at 165 major is somehow less safe than .38 Super was at the old 175PF? Anyone remember there ever being a lawsuit against USPSA because we allowed .38 super at the old 175PF?

Tom Freeman: you mentioned the Steyr; I bought an M-9 to try in production - it has a grip that is closer to the bore axis than anything else out there so I thought it would provide an advantage; BTW, it is nearly identical in size to my Glock 19 (thus, it does not have the sight radius or size advantage of the G-34 or G-17. However, I have run into 3 snags with the Steyr: 1) 4 out of my 6 mags will not hold the slide open on the last shot - had this problem w/ waek Magtec as well as very hot Norma/Vihtavouri subgun ammo. 2) The mag release is small and has a very stiff spring 3) Mags hang up at back of magwell - they catch on the cart. rim, the feed lip, etc. Know of any production legal fixes to these problems? Even without these problems, the Steyr does not appear to be the "magic bullet" I had hoped for; a G-17 is on order.

Hmm - had not heard of 154 grn Wolf - I have only heard of the near-universal bullet weight of 124 grn for factory loading, though I suppose it is possible since Wolf makes some unusual loads - like the 9x19 mm 145 Grain Hollowpoint Silver Bear - a load they claim will achieve 1200 FPS. Well even out of a 16 in Colt rifle barrel, Wolf's claim for their hot 145 grn 9mm is exagerated - and yes we did test this out of a calibrated chronograph. If Wolf does indeed produce 154 grn loads for the 39mm length round, I would want to verify their velocity claims - rifle major may be a lot further away than it would first seem. Looking on the bright side, as to the potential of 7.62x39mm to make current rifle major, it may well be possible with modern powders like VihtaVouri and strong, reliable actions found on guns like the AR-15. The AR is a far cry from a loose and reliable AK action. I am a fan of both actions, thought I feel the AR has the edge over most AKs (the Galils and Valmets being a possible exceptions). The real drawback with ARs in that cal would be finding reliable highcap mags. Maybe an AR-10 in .243 or .260 would be a more worthwhile project?

This topic has been covered; do a search on "wear" or "Montana Gold" (hard brass jackets - still I doubt they cause appreciably more wear than comparable bullets). Even barrels with gross wear often shoot quite well with good loads. Now do you really want to cut down on barrel wear in a stainless barrel? Then Stop cleaning it! Although you shoot IDPA and shhot a revolver, check out the quatation below taken directly from William Schuemann's website (Will is a maker of 1911 barrels used by a couple of folks who shoot in USPSA) - you can find a link to him on the frontpage of http://www.USPSA. com since will is a primary sponsor, along with SV, of the USPSA website. Will it work for you? You decide. ""My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets... Good luck, Wil """

Have used WestCoast with mostly good results - though there has been the odd batch which does not shoot quite right. Also, watch out for over-crimping; too tight of a crimp will quickly kill your accuracy in plated bullets. I'd suggest the extra few $$$ for re-struck Berry's. BTW, the lesser known West Coast, Berry's and Ranier bullets are made with the exact same process as Speer's TMJ and the other large name maker's plated bullets - they are all just plated-over swaged lead. I find that I get the same results from using Speer's data for their TMJ line as for similar design Westcoast bullets of the same weight. As for lead, I can't use it because I never clean the barrel - ever. Have not tried coated lazercast lead but I do not care for smoke - esp. indoors. Its either plated or jacketed for me.

I think Evil PJ is correct; new manufactured detachable SHOTGUN magazines that hold more than 5 round are banned - AGAIN, FOR SHOTGUNS only!!!!. Yes, I know about civilian legal post-ban 10 rounders for everything - - except shotguns. I am also aware of the limited supply of postban .410 Saiga Shotgun mags that held 10 rounds and that were for sale to civilians in the recent past (again, in .410 bore) - see any of those for sale recently? Did not think so. I wish it were not so, but it looks like the 12 and 20 Saigas are limited to 5 round magazines. So do the open-class Remington/Winchester?browning/ Beneli shooters still feel threatened?

Well this fourm and Brian's book often times focus on USPSA competition shooting so here is the skinny on which caliber to buy IF you plan to shoot competitively in USPSA (IPSC). Keep in mind that either gun could compete in certain classes of IDPA. Avoid the ported models at all costs! There are no available factory high cap magazines you can buy in the US (unless you are an LEO or whant to try importing some certifiable pre-bans from Croatia) so 10 + 1 rounds is your limit (everyone else - shut up about the .40 mags will ya??!?! Crissake!). You CAN modify highcaps made for other guns to use the HS/XD mag release and yes its OK since the doner magazine will still function in the original gun; theoretically, you might be able to make some "reliable" 140 mm limited highcaps out of other high dollar pre-bans, but it would take LOTS of fiddling.special parts & know-how. Might have been either Sig or Berreta mags that work - go check out the XD board. That realistically leaves you 2 competitive USPSA classes: 1)Production 2) limited 10 Production is all scored MINOR anyway so why bother shooting .40 when you can shoot 9mm? Sure, Todd Jarret shoots .40 in production - he also makes special reloads and shoots a highly modified double action para-ord 1911 with an incredibly light trigger that you will not be able to get. Take a poll of the guns used in production; people are not shooting Todd's setup even though he has proven that it "could" be dione. 9mm is cheaper than .40 even if you reload. Once fired cases and bullets cost less and it uses less powder. Cheaper any way you cut it. 9mm is the caliber for the rest of us mortals shooting production class. Limited 10 is apparently dominated by old single stack longslide .45s (according to the lates Frontsight); you could buy the XD/HS in .40 to compete against those guns. Be prepared to expirament with lightening the HS/XD trigger - either that or learn to shoot a stock HS/XD better than the cross-over limited S_I shooters and old timers that win in limited 10. My opinion? Buy the full size XD in 9mm and shoot it in production.

""I learned how to shoot on a M1A/M14 as a junior highpower shooter. I shot several of them apart. I have yet to do that to an AR. It is well known in the land of highpower that M1As require more TLC than ARs. Bedding gives out, op rods bend, gas systems come out of spec, etc. ARs have less going on when they go off and less stuff to break."" As a highpower veteran, you have more experience than I in that dept, though I seem to remember Glen Zediker had a paragraph or two along those very same lines in his AR bible. He is also a highpower shooter who started w/ the M1A and is now an AR convert - and I think he gives a very fair account of how that happened as well as why. Excellent resource IMHO.

Third that - Jack is a good guy. Just got off the phone w/ him and apparently VV is out of 3n38 (anyone know who still has a pound or two?) but turns out Jack will drive up and pick up the next shipment of 3n38 as soon as it clears customs! Top notch service too. Like most of our vendors, he won't get rich doing this, he sells USPSA supplies because he likes the sport.

Olive oil? That sounds like a "Philmont Solution"; in fact, when I worked as a paid Philmont staffer in the 80s, the interpretive camps that demonstrated black powder shooting used something similar - the staff would give each scout a .50 cal cloth patch, instruct them to put it in their mouth, and then show the group how to load a black powder rifle; when it came time for the scout to shoot, he'd take the slobery patch out of his mouth and load up the balck powder rifle - with saliva as the patch lube! Neat trick, but kinda gross. Glad I worked in the conservation dept. instead. The advantage of Hornady OneShot is that it forms an extremely thin film and then dries to an almost undetectable coating;on loaded rounds it does not atract dust or dirt like other lubes out there. Leave it on and go compete. While I have not tried olive oil, I would think one would want to tumble the extra oil off the loaded rounds before taking them to the match (you read right: tumble loaded rounds, guese I like to live on the edge). Good trick to know in a pinch though; thanks. Regards, D.

Kurt - great post w/ lots of info, i.e.: ""The sights are very close to the bore line and makes close range hits (out to 20yds) a mater of just looking over the sights and pressing the trigger." Good point; here in area 8 the rifle stages are often quite close; we simply do not have as many wide open places to shoot at 300+ yards as the lucky folks out west do. At VERY close stages, a shooter has to use the rifle a bit like a shotgun to keep up - instinctive point shooting and a good fitting stock (plus lotsa practice) can let you fly through really close stages without ever bringing the Leupold's cross hairs into sharp focus on the A zone. """I still feel that if you put in the time, which almost all don't, one can become very competitive with one. I find the recoil of 150gr bullets with a good comp to be very mild."" I agree; the lighter bullets (around 150 and below) are part of what accounts for the lower recoil in the .260 Remington and I imagine in TGO's .243 cal M1A. In .308, I have noticed a difference even between the Sierra 168 HP and the 150s - with the 150s getting the nod for faster recovery. Hopefully there will be further interest/development of major cal. 3gun rifles as far as loads and comps go; I can imagine major PF rifles someday shooting very light bullets at fast and flat velocities while at the same time using efficient comps to keep the rifle as steady as the AR-15s currently are. As long as it stays in the rules, maybe the .243 is the way to go? It is out of my budget right now. Anyone else up for an experiment? ""As for wear, I have one reciever that is on its 4th barrle and doing just fine. I have noticed that I don't need to change bolt components like gas rings, extractor springs and cam pins, because there are none that break or wear."" Agreed. For reliability sake, I am a fan of operating rod systems like the M1, M1A, AK-47 series, etc. since I believe it is a terrible idea to bring high pressure vent gas all the way back into the action and then rely on coplicated metering systems to make the action function. While I own and build AR-15s (take a look at http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com), I like the original concept of the AR-18/180, Daewoo DR series, LM Weapons series rifles that all use reliable operating rods rather than the direct gas system like the traditional ARs. Note: there can be difficulties with op-rod set-ups affecting accuracy though; take a look at the modifications needed to get an M1A to national match specifications. A tight-fitting gas tube does not allow the barrel to float free; moreover, free floating an op-rod gun is more involved than simply throuwing a free float tube on an AR. I also think that while the AR-15 *can* be made reliable, in practice it often jams; check out a local 3 gun match and see if there are any rifle jams. Are there? Did they happen to AR-15s? Now check out a local competition following the national match course where you will still find Garands and M1As; were there any jams? Decide for yourself which system tends to be more reliable in actual competition use for the average, real-world competitor. My ideal 3 gun rifle would have a gas-piston system. The down sides are, stock design tends to make the rifle recoil up, the E2 stock tends to cure this to a large degree. The only good mags are 20 rnd,( although they can be change VERY fast. This is a trade secret so I won't say how I do it but I can do a 2 shots, change, 2 shots, in the low 5s). The mags are now expensive, and you have to explain to most 3 gun shooters what it is because NO ONE sees one unless I or a scant hand full of guys show up with one. The snickering and giggling seem to abait right around awards time. Yeah, that is one bad trend I have noticed in USPSA; you show up with anything out of the ordinary and you get reactions like "You are going to compete with WHAT??!!?" For a sport built on inovation, we are often times a bit too judgemental on anything out of what some consider "the norm". You can imagine the head scratching and snickering when someone shows up with DR, a 9mm AR, etc. ""By the way I AM NOT saying that it is as good a game gun as Kelly's FAL. That Fal would be much easier to shoot with out the hours upon hours of practice, and if one were to put in that amount of time on the Fal it would be incredible, as I believe Kelly has; BUT don't count a good shooter out with the M1A"" Fair enough - and that is also the answer to the original poster's question. The M1A is a viable 3gun rifle given enough practice. ""I don't shoot the nationals but have shot S.M.M.3Gun. Four years ago I shot one (M1A) to 6th place. The next year I started shooting a optic sighted AR and placed....6th... BIG CHANGE!!! The year after I won. I won't say that the AR didn't help, it did, but That year the rifle stages were All long range steel and I feel I could have done about the same perfomance with an M1A as the AR. Good shooting! Results speak volumes about what *can* work. Regards, D.

KurtM: you might want to listen to Kelly, he knows what he is talking about. Kelly: can you remind us of some of your recent finishes in "real" 3 gun matches - meaning the USPSA/IPSC kind? I could engage in name-calling and call all that other SOF/tactical-whacktical/also-ran rifle match stuff "sissie matches" - but I will not bother since that is not the point of BE's forum. Practical advice? Well, back on topic, there was a recent demonstration in the 3gn Nationals that the FN-FAL style rifle could be made quite competitive and also meet rifle major - in that case, the particular rifle was chambered in .260 Remington a.k.a. 308-6.5 which is simply the .308 necked to 6.5mm, but with much less recoil and a bullet with a superior B.C. to the .30 cal. offerings. This round is balistically similar to the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser although as a recent standardisation, SAMMI can establish higher load limits for the 260 on account of the newer rifles chambered for it. I believe the M1A has been offered in .243 so there should not be an impediment to chambering it in .260 (not aware of anyone having tried it); alternatively, one might do well with an M1A in .243 to take advantage of reduced recoil. The limit of 20 round magazines would not appear to be a problem as demonstrated by the success of an FAL in the nationals - although the FAL is apparently able to use 30 round 7.65x51mm NATO bren gun magazines (the ones for the later Mk IV Brens that were converted to 7.62 NATO or .308) - don't know if those were used in the Nationals. Were there ever 30 round mags for the M1A? Constructive comments welcome; feel free to disagree.

Low and behold, I got the following reply last week: """Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my column. It's always great to hear from readers. There's no reason why we can't agree on some issues and disagree on others. Maybe we will really take you up on your offer if we are ever in the area. Have a good weekend. Lloyd""" Will send a short reply to let him know I got the response and my offer still stands. Now if I could only get "Somebody that we don't need to talk about on the SHOOTING forum" to be 1/2 as reasonable as Lloyde seems to be! Douglas

11thACR- welcome brother. I hear you - I was there just 2.5 years ago without your rifle/revolver experience. over 13,000 .45 reloads later, I commend you on your choice of straight Clays powder - I think it is the perfect powder for .45 at 165 PF and bullet weights between 230 and 185. Now, your question: the man you need to hear from is a member here known as CSTgunsmith (or something like that). He is writing a book on loading the .45. You can read up on bullet designs and read CST's excellent posts by doing a search on "H&G" or "68" - both of those refer to a classic long nosed SWC (to which the Speer soft lead swaged and plated "TMJ" is similar) usually found in 200 grain guise. I loaded the similar WestCoast 200 plated SWC over 4.5 grns of straight Clays at 1.245 for most of my first season. As for the "best" 200 grn SWC OAL, there are 3 theories I can identify as seeing here on the web: 1) Load SWCs (any SWCs) so just a hint of shoulder is exposed above the casemouth - usually less than 1.245" This seems to be an old, time worn idea from the days when .45s all used unsuported, non-ramped barrels. Times change, but this may still work. 2) Load as long as possible - about 1.262 in my STI Edge .45 for H&G style SWCs. Apparently long loading is required in the .40 caliber S_I guns and that problem has creeped into loading advice for other calibers. Not sure its required of every caliber though - maybe not needed in .45. 3) Load to the OAL that works in your gun. This is good advice. Here are some hints that helped me: I sacrifice 4 or 5 cases and bullets making up test dummies for a load I am developing: the first one gets crimped and measured for OAL, then I load it in the mag and rack the gun as fast as I can to simulate firing (or at least come as close as I can at home) I listen for smooth feeding and re-measure OAL for set-back after chambering; a little setback is OK - too much setback with Clays powder can be bad ju-ju. Assuming there is not too much setback after one test dummie, I load 3 or 4 more and load up the mag with the 4 or 5 dummies - push down on them and make sure none of them are draggin on the front of the mag - that kind of OAL will cause all sorts of headaches. Rack all of them through the gun to test. Assuming all is well and there is enough crimp on the plated test jobbies, load 50 or so and test out over a chrono and you are set. Careful not to use too much crimp on plated bullets because accuracy will end up in the toilet; a Lee brand "U" carbide die (like a small base rifle die) can prevent set-back AND let you crimp light. Now, as for Titegroup, I tried a pound and outdoors it "felt " the same as Clays when both are loaded to 165PF. Neat powder, very high nitro content (like 37%) and it ran dirty at the low pressures of the .45 ACP. It apparently runs much cleaner in the higher pressures of the .40 and 9mm. Now indoors, it seemed MUCH louder than Clays - plus more flash. Still, the price is right, the chrono readings were good and acccuracy seemed OK. I like my nice clean Clays better. Please report back to us what you discover. Regards, Douglas

as above, the October 12 match at York, PA IWLA has been cancelled due to flooding and more rain in the forecast. See you in November at the classifier. D. (Edited by Carlos at 4:17 pm on Oct. 11, 2002)

Sig Lady: you are welcome. Shipster: as of 4 PM Friday (D.C. time) there was no reply. Will let you know on Tuesday if anything comes in. Have a great weekend! D.