RJH

If he only shoots locals, does he really care? I'll go with no. So if he really cares he's going to shoot level twos anyway and then he'll begin find out how good he is How important is a GM card really if the only people you are beating up is a bunch of midpack nobodies So, you're still convincing me that the classification system is useless. Until next time LOL

Doesn't that just mean there were 219,211 people that shot? I mean some of those classifiers were mine and other than needing to be classified in a division in case I wanted to shoot a level two, they meant absolutely zero to me. They were simply submitted because I happened to be a member that shot a match, well several matches. It will be interesting to see how many casual members the new yearly rate drops, as I know there are a lot of people that don't shoot level two matches, and I think at some point they are going to start asking what they're getting for their money (unless they just really love the magazine ). Especially the ones that have been members for a long time and yet only shoot level ones and will probably never move up in classification anyway, because they haven't moved up in the last 10 years. At my local clubs that's about 70% of the people shooting. In other words they probably get a classifier just because that's what they did way back when they started and have since forgotten why they give USPSA money every year and just do it out of habit. And if we're going to go off of the 219, 000 some odd classifiers that were submitted, if that many people are submitting classifiers and really want them, it would stand a reason that they are happy with what they're getting, or else they wouldn't be submitting all of those classifiers. Unless they just happen to be like me, a guy who shoots some USPSA matches and is a member and so my classifiers are automatically uploaded whether I care about them or not The more y'all classification system updators talk, the more I'm convinced that the classification system is useless

Why do that when it's been said (I think fairly correctly) that 90% of USPSA shooters only shoot at their local clubs. Kind of negates necessity of a classifier system

The more I read of all of this the more I think USPSA should just use a Lewis class system, if anything, at majors and at locals not worry about classification at all. I can't believe the amount of worry this creates for some of y'all I mean damn, how many of y'all's local matches has enough b-class competitors in limited to justify worrying about this. Even in the bigger divisions by the time you break them down by class at a local, winning b class doesn't matter anyway. There was talk about how "competitors" do it earlier LOL, competitors are trying to win the match not their class and don't care about classification. (Crap, I guess that makes me a competitor. Unfortunately I'm a bad competitor because I almost never win the match ) And if the goal is for people to see their improvement, it would be much easier and much more realistic for that person to look at people in their local area and pick a guy and go "I'm going to start trying to beat that guy at every match". Then when that was done they could beat the next guy, till they're on top of the heap

Agreed. I I'm not going to live my life on a bunch of what ifs and other erroneous stuff. I'm sure you can find a court case for dang near whatever if you look hard enough, but in general that's not going to be the issue. And I'm not going to hide in a hole over a .0001% chance of some oddball crap

They should shoot single stack

And a square deal will not do 223. I agree with the 550, though you are talking about doing quite a few rounds a month, just depend on how much time you want to spend behind the press

That's interesting. If I remember right CHL stuff here is the same as driving while intoxicated. In other words you're fine to go have a beer with supper, but don't go to the bar (going to the bar with your gun is technically illegal here anyway)

I never said I take my gun out of the holster. And I don't load or unload it in the parking lot. I'll leave it in the holster and just take my whole belt off and lay the gun in the holster in the car somewhere. So apparently I'm safe on all those range rules And as far as USPSA, I'm not going to DQ anybody who comes up to me and says hey I still have my loaded carry gun can I go unload it over here Mr range official. I'll say sure let's go get that thing unloaded. And then we will step into an adjacent Bay that is not being used, the competitor will unload and bag/holster his gun, and then I assume he will go get his other gun and put it on in the safe area. This is not that complicated

Still trying to figure out who unloads their gun in the car. When I get to a match there's a decent chance of my gun still loaded and laying in the car when I go shoot. Then I just put it back on. Haven't shot nobody or been DQed for it yet

I'm still trying to figure out why you unload your gun and leave it in the parking lot to go get a beer and a hamburger, that may be the most perplexing part of this thread

Cop or not if he ask I would take him to a different bay and clear him, if it was joe blo with his carry gun i would do the same. Hell, I would be glad he asked to be cleared, least it shows some initiative. Crap happens and people sometimes run late.

Interesting, and you could be right about me never having a work of art in my hand, or if I did I didn't appreciate it for what it was. I've held/shot some custom blasters, but after a certain point it all runs together for me What I mean by "fluff," is after performance every thing else is secondary to me, but that is just my needs, not trying to push those needs on anyone else. And even performance is relative to the task at hand, hell a caniks and 320s have won limited nationals, but they are probably not beating a baer in a national match type course All, that said I am glad that people can and do high end work even if I don't appreciate it as much as others Thanks PS this thread needs some pics.....

The only thing easier than Lewis class system is no class system

Serious question, what do those guys do that infinity can't/won't? Baer is the only one I have seen that will guarantee accuracy, all else really seems fluff to me and I like infinity's fluff the best lol

I think the only way to correct it would be to use some sort of Lewis class system. Which would tell you what class you were on at that particular match. That's the easiest way to do it, but it doesn't really give somebody a b or c card. Basically the guy who finishes closest to 50% without going over gets the "win" then the guy at 75%, etc

That's a term for somebody who reshoots a classifier until they can get classified in a higher class than they really are. It doesn't happen as much now as it probably used to since they don't allow multiple it doesn't happen as much now as it probably used to since they don't allow multiple reshoots on classifiers like they used to. People use paper GMS as a way to show the classifier system is completely broken. But it turns out, even paper GMS are still pretty good. And, in reality the only person they are hurting are themselves if they try to classify higher than their actual skill level. So in other words, it's not really the issue that some people try to make it out to be

This will lead to a lot of paper GMS, which is one of the things people gripe about right now

How is infinity not mentioned yet?

Put me in the double plug camp, and I don't even own a real open gun

Tight group will tend to smoke a little more, however other than that there are no real ill effects. 45 is a pretty affable caliber to load, so I would use whatever powder you had that you weren't going to put in something else, because it'll probably work pretty good in 45

This is kind of my point at the beginning of this thread, a whole Nationals with stages designed around Ironsight guns couldn't fill up. I watched a video from single stack Nationals a few years back and there were 350 competitors for that division alone, and this year there were not 350 competitors for all Ironsight divisions combined at a Nationals specifically for them In other words I'm not sure setting up a match for only Iron sight guns is going to get any traction. I'm also not saying changing up the divisions is going to get any traction either

I guess I should have clarified that minor would still need to be .355. Damn gamers LOL

Could be a sig 320....

I know him, not real well but I shot with him several times over the years. He runs good matches and is good guy and I think he will be a solid area director. I know he didn't love what Mel was doing I'm pretty sure he has a profile on here You might check out Facebook and look at a page called: "USPSA area 4 but not the official page" or something like that