motosapiens

nothing wrong with LO. Currently CO is more popular, but I predict LO will end up bigger. Pretty much just depends on what gun you want to shoot.

lol, so does everyone. dr Mitch is right tho. I dont have any issue drawing to a 25 yr mini popper in DA. It takes me about an extra tenth of a second if the first shot is a really challenging one, but for anything easier than a 15 yard zebra, it's the same first shot time as my 2011s.

probably personal preference. I did some back-to-back testing with my free staccato P, shadow2, and atlas titan 40-minor. The staccato had significantly more muzzle flip, but it did also come pretty much back to the same spot pretty quickly. The end result was I'm going to shoot the Atlas until I run out of 40 bullets, and probably sell the staccato. For my personal tastes and experience, I think a 5" barrel on the staccato (and probably a longer dustcover, but maybe not full-length) would be a significant improvement for competition. OTOH, it's a pretty badass carry gun just the way it is..... I would keep it for carry except I already have a p01 that cost $500 and shoots just as well. I've been very impressed by the build quality and accuracy of my staccato P, but the staccato XL just seems crazy overpriced to me without a metal grip, whether it 'needs' one or not.

we have a legion x5 and a shadow2. Personally I prefer the S2, but my wife doesn't like DA trigger, so she shot the sig until she moved to open. We found out that our sig preferred .356 diameter bullets, and accuracy was noticeably worse with .355 coated bullets. I still think the shadow 2 is the simplest route. all i did to mine was put in an 11 lb main spring and 11-12lb recoil spring. Trigger is awesome and the gun is very accurate and easy to shoot without having to screw with alot of stuff. On the sig we put in a trigger kit and also extended mag release to make it work. lots of good choices out there however.

around here we have seen quite a few folks move to open in the last couple years. They started in CO and just naturally took the next step.

its pretty unmanly to want to take major away from people who enjoy it. if you don’t like major, don’t shoot it. problem solved.

people who don’t like gripping strong enough to shoot major sometimes think that everyone feels the same. there are still a lot of us out there that prefer real motorcycles over scooters, and margaritas on the rocks over white claw. I would rather shoot grown-up handguns rather than wimpy versions designed for girls and poofs to be able to pass their LE quals. as my wife sez “minor sucks”.

local shop has some vudoos, and i've seen a couple of them being shot and handled one. I was pretty impressed with the overall feel. I loved the flat trigger, and I definitely prefer the 5" barrel over the shorter versions some folks are making. If I needed a gun I would strongly consider it. However, I don't think it offers any advantages over my limited gun shooting 40 minor except 3 extra rounds, and with a magwell the extra rounds are meaningless to me. So I'm just going to shoot 40 in LO this year.

locally i've seen a number of staccatos (some of them are shooting open because of the dorky comp, lol), and a couple vudoos, a dan wesson 2011, plus my 40 minor converted limited gat. Also at least 1 guy shooting a tanfo. I haven't squadded with him so I don't know if he's running starting in SA, but he probably has a magwell. With LO being new, I'm not surprised that alot people weren't shooting dedicated LO gun at nationals. I suspect many more will be shooting dedicated LO guns in 2024.

Your first sentence is a very valid point. As to your second sentence, I had the opportunity to compare my plastic gripped 9mm 2011 (38 oz) with my 50+ oz 40 minor steel-gripped 2011 the last couple weeks. I don't think the heavy gun really needs that much weight, but I don't think it hurts much either, whereas the plastic gun definitely bounces more and is slower on steel and longer shots just because of the extra dot movement. It would be interesting to add 4-6 oz to the plastic gun and see if that made it perfect.... but the heavy gun feels perfect enough to me that I'm just going to sell the plastic one. Of course I have shot a LOT of rounds through the heavy gun, so it feels far more familiar and comfortable to me coming back to it after 6 months than a new gun with 1-2k through it. Individual tastes may vary. I'm sure just like the old days in limited we'll see folks buying inexpensive guns to get started in the sport for a year or two, but just like the old days in limited, the vast majority of serious shooters will be using high-end high-dollar equipment.

matches here are more popular than ever and almost noone knows or cares about whatever stoeger is doing to get clicks.

yep, no reason you can’t choose an inferior racing platform. ‘murica!

i made M with a bone-stock edge, but my wife and I both made a noticeable improvement in match results when we got better limited guns with heavier grips, lighter triggers, lighter slide and more accuracy. But even without measurable performance improvement, people will still buy expensive guns because most people find them more pleasurable to own, handle, shoot and work on.

it's unnecessary in any division, but better guns definitely shoot better, and better costs money. You may feel that you're not giving up enough performance to make a difference to *you* by shooting a cheaper gun, but you are definitely giving up some performance. And most people would rather not leave any stone unturned when it comes to seeking performance through spending money. OTOH, spending time, on practicing or dry-firing..... ain't nobody got time for that, lolz.

And all of those guys will react to getting beat by spending more money on their guns..... lol....

Yep, and just like Limited, 11 or 12 people will shoot those cheap guns for a year or two, and then they also will buy $5000+ custom guns.

it is actually inescapable. Every division that allows 2011's immediately becomes a $5k+ custom gun division. That's why its important to not let 2011's into CO.

haha, i was having that same struggle until I shot my limited gun in a match with a dovetail optic plate. Most fun (and best shooting) I've done in a while. I am now committed to LO for 2024.

I have 2 atlases from 2017 when they were a reasonable price. I think they have been vastly overpriced for a few years now, and so we've purchased other new guns from other builders that do real custom work.

i loaded up a hundred rounds at 130-135 pf, and a handful of them felt 'extra light'. perhaps just at the low end of what will run the gun, perhaps an issue with such a small amount of powder in a 40 case. I bumped the load up to 140pf and that seems to feel alot more consistent and makes the slide move at a more reasonable speed. Still doesn't move the muzzle a whole lot on a 50+oz gun.

it looks like it will be a very popular division for lazy people who like to spend money on fancy guns. 9mm 2011's seem to be much less finicky with feeding and magazine issues than 40. Nonetheless, after shooting a free (but light) LO gun the last month or so, I got my old limited gat set up for LO and shot it yesterday (atlas titan 40 with dovetail dot mount and 140pf ammo). It was pretty darned fun to shoot. I like it quite a bit better than the 9mm I was shooting. Literally took me no time at all to adapt, but I have shot many tens of thousands of rounds through that gun with iron sights. I think I am going to focus on LO this year since I still have 6-8k 40 bullets and I like the gun. My wife wants to shoot open nats, so I think I'll probably just load major and shoot it in open for a few weeks also. I'm sure I will do better (and spend a ton less $$) than if I buy another open gun and try to learn how to use it between now and then, lol.

i have never measured the pull weight because i don't care, but i have had success with the 11 lb spring as long as i use federal or winchester primers. i think cci are probably safe too. with ginex or s&b primers i had to go up to 12lb to get reliable ignition.

factory defensive rounds? or bulk factory ammo that people actually shoot. Seems like alot of it is not much hotter than 125-130.

good to know. perhaps just my choice of powder. i should test again now that i'm shooting n320 and see if still starts locking up.

that is a somewhat reasonable point. I've always preferred to just take care of that stuff *before* I have issues, lol. fwiw, my shadow 2 will stop running if i don't clean the extractor every 1500-2k rounds, and it's a much bigger pain to clean the extractor. (have to remove the optic).