motosapiens

to avoid hurting anyone's feelings, i propose an alternative: 1. get rid of LO 2. make CO *less* restrictive by allowing SAO guns. 3. change the name of CO to LO 4. create a new division called prod optics or carry optics or whatever you want and make it more restrictive with a lower weight limit and 15 round capacity.

extra shots are calculated based on the stage, but extra hits are calculated per target, so even if you don't shoot all the targets, you shouldn't make up anything that isn't a certain mike.

short answer is probably not, but you should double-check. I found with clays powder in 45 that I got a significant difference (as much as 50fps) between federal, cci, cci magnum and winchester magnum primers. with 40 and 9mm i have never noticed enough of a difference to worry about. I'll be testing 38sc next month because i have several different brands of primers and I don't want my wife to surprised by chrono at a big match.

I can't help much, but brazos recommended n105 or 3n38 for the gun we bought this year. I found the 3n38 made the gun feel much better and the dot was calmer than with aa7 or hs6. It kinda feels like the comp is tuned for those powders (which is probably why he recommends them). I was hoping to try n105 since that was bob's first choice, but i haven't seen any.

gm level trolling. TF = 11.773. Nice run!

the rest of your post was sound advice, but i fixed the above sentence for you.

that is a reasonable question. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm pretty good at hitting the a-zone, and typically do a bit better in minor divisions. Nonetheless i often have more fun shooting major. It's fun to go fast, and it's fun to shoot more powerful guns (just like motorcycles, eh?). However, back in the day I worked corner crew at a few roadbike races. One of the most popular divisions was the 250 4-stroke (mostly kawi ninja 250's), and those people had hella fun. Obviously there is also a place in racing for low-performance stock equipment for the people that like that sort of thing.

the people i know moving to open just say they have more fun.

i personally am not a fan of open, but most open shooters I know (including mrs moto) openly laugh at LO. they have figured out that minor sucks, and expensive and finicky minor sucks even more. I don't see all that many of them being enticed into hiding in LO. locally we have seen significant numbers of people go from CO to open as they get more serious and I expect many of the new LO shooters to end up on the same path.

For sure, monkey-see-monkey-do makes sense, because if you're spending 5+k on a gun, you'd like it to work, so a reasonable person would tend to look at the guys around him who have flawless running guns and ask some questions. my thoughts before we ordered tresa's gun is that I know 9mm has higher pressures, and I know 9mm is finickier about feeding, and since everyone here shoots 38 and we work a couple big matches a year, brass is not a problem. Yes, I do have to pick it up (but she helps), and since it's all the same headstamp, it behaves pretty consistently in the press and in the gun. 9mm brass can be all over the map it terms of primer seating and brass quality. To me it seems just as easy to pick up 38 brass as to be picky about 9mm brass and have to spend more time and care to get the gun running. Anyway, I pick up my 9mm, 40 and 45 brass too and that's why we can both retire at the end of this year.

I worked (but didn't shoot) vegas in 2012. The match hotel was on the edge of town, close to the range, so it was pretty convenient. The range seemed nice, but I remember some severe match flow issues with big backups at a couple stages. I haven't seen anything like that since, but I have only shot 6-8 nationals (st george a few times, frostproof, talladega 3x, and ss nats at PALA once). All those ranges were nice when I was there, but pala would probably have been annoying for a match where i didn't drive. Ultimately, I think nationals should move around every few years, and I'd like to see some different ranges get involved.

i prefer picking up brass to picking up slide fragments, lol. everyone near me shoots 38sc.

I have worked 8-9 A1's since 2013. The matches in 2021 and 2023 were at my home range, where I was on the BOD. $10/shooter is pretty much nothing. It's the same we charge for a member putting on a ccw class for the public. You have misunderstood. I have never said it was not possible to cut costs. I simply pointed out some of the differences between a national event and an area event the way they are currently run, based on my experience working many of each in the last few years. I did that to counter the simplistic argument that 'if area matches can break even, nationals should too.' Certainly that argument is correct *if* you intend to run nationals like an area match. I think most people expect a national match to be better organized, better built, better staffed and a better experience overall than an area match, but I also understand that many people really enjoy more prop-heavy and elaborate stages (like at A3 when I've been). I don't think you'll ever see nats be like A3 because those elaborate prop stages have had some competitive equity issues over the years. I don't have an 'angle'. I'm simply participating in a speculative discussion. Most of us in the discussion have almost zero experience or knowledge on the topic. I have a little bit, from the perspective of a frequent RO and competitor, and a former board member at a hosting club. I can share that experience and knowledge, but I don't intend to give the impression that it's more than a fraction of the big picture. Frankly, it seems reasonable to me that nationals should be able to break even, but without looking at the actual line items of a national match budget, it's hard to say where to cut corners and/or economize.

How much exactly? For a1 at our range it was $10/shooter directly to the host club for the use of the range and all the facilities. Do you suppose talladega is getting more per shooter? or less?

in actuality, at A1 or nationals, I have computed that I am earning $20-30/hr for my RO time. Free match entry, lunches (+dinner stipend at nats), hotel or cash stipend to apply to my own lodging arrangements, and partial travel reimbursement at nationals. The downside is I have to shoot the staff match with a little less time to watch other folks runs on the moving targets. At 2021 SS nationals flights were still cheap, so even tho I had to cross the country, I think I made a small profit overall on that match (adding in the $250 gift cert for the bullets I use from the prize table). It's still alot of work, and you have to have the extra vacation time to spare, but at least at A1 and nationals, it is worth it for frugal types like me.

I agree. It would be very interesting. I have had access to that info for A1 the years we hosted it, and some of the numbers are surprising. Speculation is better than working, however.

as I mentioned previously, staff at area matches typically cost alot less. Probably half as much tops. Probably even less at some area matches. They are able to leverage alot of the resources of the host club volunteers who volunteer to help out their local range because they only have to do it once every 5-10 years. It's possible nationals could run with cheaper and less qualified staff, but I think it's probably a good thing to have experienced RM's and even RMI's on most of the stages. Of course that may only be part of the picture. I don't claim to know where all the money goes to at nationals, but I can say with certainty that the staff at nationals cost significantly more, and I bet the prize table at nationals costs significantly more too. It certainly goes quite a bit deeper than any area match I've been to, although A2 also goes pretty deep (and has a similar entry fee).

I think you just like to argue. 210 is pretty cheap for a modern area match. A2 is $325. I don't know if A2 has to pay a bunch to rio salado, but I suspect nationals pays quite a bit to the host sites (talladega, universal, etc....), and I also know A1 paid very little to our club in terms of 'rent' or fees, but we did use the match to fund some range improvements that will outlast the match.

uspsa membership is increasing, despite a few disgruntled podcasters. As far as I can tell at local and major matches, the majority of people aren't that interested in mud-slinging and complaining, and just want to shoot consistent quality matches.

What has been your experience at the nationals you have attended? How many of them have you worked? asking for a friend.....

how many more shooters? how much higher is the entry fee? in my experience, many area matches have about the same number of shooters and about the same entry fee, but I only have experience with areas 1-3. Back east may be different.

Or perhaps one is not making a good point, but has admitted that one doesn't even shoot USPSA anymore, and has never been involved in any aspect of putting on matches, and is therefore probably not knowledgeable enough to be taken seriously. I am definitely not defending the status quo. Nationals should break even or at worst not cost very much. It shouldn't lose large amounts of money, but just pointing fingers and calling names when one doesn't even go to nationals is not constructive.

That seems reasonable, but examining it exposes deeper issues. One is that area matches are typically hosted by a volunteer club, which doesn't have to pay to access the range. My club got $10 per shooter, just like they do for other events like section matches or concealed carry training. I don't know how much USPSA pays the ranges they use, but I suspect it's a bunch. Second, you have to pay for all the national office staff to show up to nationals for weeks to be in charge, instead of having the local MD who lives there running it. Last, and another big-ticket item, is that nationals typically has more RO's than most area matches I've worked, and it costs more to get those RO's to the match because the travel/meal stipend for nationals is more generous than for area matches. A really generous area match might offer free hotel for the 5-ish days or $400 for people who camp, stay with friends, make their own arrangements, or already live there. Nationals is paying a hotel for 5-7 nights, plus $25/day for meals, plus $360 or so reimbursable towards travel. That's almost twice the cost per RO. On the plus side, that allows them to be much more selective, but it isn't cheap.

if power factor was the problem, then people would shoot production. but they don't. I think iron sights are just too hard. Young people don't want to do hard stuff, and old people don't want to do hard stuff and can't see the sights even if they did. We may have just reached the tipping point where dots take over. Even my luddite agency (which still issues .40 to all officers, even the girls and sissies) is looking at moving to dots.

sounds like you are volunteering to be an MD. I would advise starting with a section match and let us know how it goes.