NewColonial

Me too. What about during ULSC you remove mag and put it in your front pocket. Did you not use that mag during the COF? What about it? It's already covered. http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=51 "Production and Single Stack equipment locations are NOT intended to complicate loading before the start signal or unloading. (e.g. – a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty)." Seems pretty clear to me. Nothing to wonder about.

NROI Ruling, 7/2/2012 http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=55 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them without penalty, providing that the USPSA Handgun Rules, location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1). Should the division restrict the location of the magazines or speed loading devices, carrying them in apparel pocket(s) forward of the restriction point, will be allowed providing they are not used in the course of fire after the start signal. Looks like that loose barney round in the front pocket is no problem for Production shooters.

Already answered by USPSA: http://www.USPSA.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=51 "Production and Single Stack equipment locations are NOT intended to complicate loading before the start signal or unloading. (e.g. – a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty)."

Is Game. Is Rules. :-)

Excellent point. I'm discovering that myself. I shot a local IDPA match this week and last. I've been doing USPSA for 2 years, and no IDPA for those two years (and just the classifier then.) I discovered real fast how much USPSA was ingrained in me when I dropped a partial mag while moving to a new shooting position the very first time out! I think I'll keep interspersing the IDPA into the mix just to break that routine thinking up.

That's a question only you can answer for yourself (and I think you already did.) If it's fun, do it. If it's not, don't. The point of playing a game is to enjoy it. There's something to be said for trigger time, but it's still a game.

jar, fair enough. I can understand that. Thanks. I guess it has a lot to do with the attitude of the RO doing it too.

Lots of great tips. Keep 'em coming. I have a major issue with relaxing at matches. I try to remind myself it's all about fun, but more often than not psyched myself out and leave mad at myself for shooting so poorly!

Only at Fredericksburg. :-)

What's the point of the RO telling the shooter he "almost" broke the 180? It's not like we shoot the same stage again ad that info is to be taken into account for the second run. Why not tell every Production shooter he "almost" has his magazines forward of the hip bone, or he "almost" loaded 11 rounds in his mags? I'm eager for any advice on running a stage more efficiently or better gun handling skills, but "almost" isn't "did."

That to me is the telling point of this discussion. Such a loose term as "first shot" shows the BOD failed to put even modest thought into what they were doing. It's almost as if they think Production isn't worth their time. As I stated previously, I don't worry the rule will affect me, but I worry about the board's style of governing. The minutes show NO vote, yay or nay from the Area 8 director. What's up with that?

Just to complete the info, in case future folks come here via Google, the secret it seems when installing the CR pouches on the DAA belt is to push, not pull. :-) Those suckers are tight. I put it on, I'm assuming the washer trick will work!

removed for later followup

Guessing I try a washer behind the default spacer. That might allow adjustment to work with both mag variants. A Google hunt shows the same suggested fit for XDM mags. There's never a bad excuse for a trip to the hardware store!

I could make do with the new Mecgars I have, but most of my mags are the older style Mecgars (15 rnd) which are just too tight. At least we bought just one Versa pouch, not the 5 I wanted. :-)

Corrected: Plastic base plate. Trying to distinguish between the 15s that came with the gun, with the thinner metal baseplate.

I tried the plastic base plate 18 round Mecgar mag and it will go in more loosely, as long at the tension knob is loosened all the way. Unfortunately most of my mags are the factory metal mecgar 15w. The Glock insert is much too loose, even looser than the pre-installed spacer. I guess technically the 15s work, I just lift the belt up as well trying to get the mag out. :-) I wrote Chuck at Shooters Connection, may he has an idea. Thanks for the replies

I tried that one too. It's too tight even with the thumb screw backed all the way out. I'm using the metal factory 15 round 9mm P226 mags.

I was given CR Speed Versa Mag pouches for Christmas. I've tried all the adaptors and can't get them to fit for the P226 9mm mags. Does anyone use them? What mag pouches will work? Thanks

I'll risk taking another angle here. I shoot Production, I like it and probably always will. My DA/SA Sig will have no issues with the rule change. What bugs me is the non-professional way it seems to have been done. (Yes, volunteers can behave professionally.) It seems that this motion just appeared out of the blue and was implemented. A rule change that will (apparently) affect a lot of people, implemented with no input and sprung as a surprise on the BOD? A cynical person might suspect ulterior motives. Secondly, a rule was made with no attempt to set a standard way of measuring the trigger pull. This makes it a crap shoot from one venue to another. Finally, and the one that caused me to say "wha?" "First trigger pull." That description really speaks of a quick, no forethought motion. Can't get much more non-specific than that. For a DA/SA gun, on an unloaded gun start, first shot is SA. On a loaded gun start, it's DA. That's 6# difference on my gun. First first pull of the match, or last first pull of the match after the gun is dirty? Like I said, the new rule doesn't affect me. What DOES affect me is the sloppy, ill-conceived, incomplete action of the BOD in making the rule. What else will be done in this manner in the future? That is what has bugged me from the beginning of the discussion.

Hello Malta! I was blessed to spend three days on Malta in September 2009, at end of a pilgrimage in Italy. What a beautiful country! I long to go back someday and spend much more time there.

Interns.

As the OP, I figured I'd chime back in. Interesting comments, even when the thread drifted. I know the rule about the mags in production, so it was the "how to handle" parts that were interesting to me. In retrospect, I find what really bugged me was NOT the advantage gained by the competitor. It probably made no finish in the difference, and certainly no difference in my finish. I'm not anywhere near a place where I'm concerned about winning. But, I take some pride in competing in Production. I like the "off-the-shelf" aspect of it. I like the restrictions on mag capacity, equipment placement, etc. The RO allowing this to slide cheapened the integrity of it, even if it wasn't malicious. I don't know him personally, but my hunch is he let it slide, not that he was ignorant of the rule. (Maybe I'm somewhat hypocritical, but I disagreed with the former rule about a mag in the front pocket before "make ready" or after "if you are finished.") Perhaps if this had been anything but a local level 1 match I probably would have spoken up. But, based on this thread, I know next time I'll at least discretely point it out. I'll man up. :-) In "real life" I'm sort of a stickler for the rule of law. My letting this pass is what bugged me, not that I thought any advantage was gained. Cheers!

At a recent local, Level 1 match, we had a 10 target, 20 round stage. Gun is holstered but UNLOADED at start. Shooter shoots first 10 rounds, reloads shoots last 10. I noticed that he didn't go to slide lock before reloading. As soon as he's done, score keeper asks "what division" and the reply is "production." Then the RO turns around and asks "Why didn't you go to slide lock before the reload?" And shooter replies "The first magazine can have 11 rounds in it." RO says okay and moves on to next shooter. So, it's a level 1 match. I'm fairly new. I didn't know any of the other shooters. I was out there to have fun, didn't want to be an a-hole, and certainly didn't want to see the guy moved to Open! I told myself I'll mention privately to the shooter later in the match that he's mistaken. He didn't appear to be a new shooter either. However, I totally forgot about as the day progressed. I'm fairly certain that if I had spoken up the rest of the morning would not have been so fun. What do others do when they see an issue in this situation? Just curious. NOTE: If I'm wrong about the rule, then this post is moot.

Just an observation - I'm not concerned personally about the update (a C shooter, and will probably always be a C shooter), but with updates that seem to be "when we get around to it", USPSA gives the impression they don't see the classification system as all that important. Before the flames start, I am pretty sure they do think it important. But impressions matter and they should really keep to a schedule. In my opinion, FWIW...