dauntedfuture
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Posts posted by dauntedfuture
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You cant have a bull barrel for IDPA, you will need a bushing for sure. You also need to make sure the gun will fit in the IDPA box, to that super extended beavertail and magwell will have to go. There is also a weight restriction on the pistol. Who ever builds the gun should know if it will be legal or not.
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Slow down speedy! All you need is a pistol and 3-5 mags with a way to carry them, nothing has to be fancy. I would certainly start by looking to see what matches and clubs are close to you and go from there. If there is ONLY uspsa then look there, if there is ONLY IDPA then look into that. In either case a production gun is an easy way to start and is the least costly to get into. 9mm is still the least expensive ammo out there from the factory. You also need to look into the gun laws of the state you are moving to and see what you can buy and or own.
A Glock or M&P is a great place to start. 1911's are not as user friendly and require a little more to keep going, they are also more expensive.
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So, is this the rifle with the 100 barrel and all the other cheap parts? If it is, I would start by scraping the barrel and bolt, get some name brand stuff and then stop wasting ammo. Of the many many other possibilities out there, when you buy cheap stuff its not always within spec. This one time, I bought a gun show special parts gun AR...I ended up replacing about every part on the rifle and re-chambering the barrel. Buy once, cry once.
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HP 38 and WW 231 are the same powders so you don't need to try both. If you are loading for an 2011 platform then that's when you MIGHT want to load long, you get more case capacity and some guns feed better with long loaded ammo. If you are shooting lead and or coated bullets then smoke, or lack there of will be a factor as some powders smoke more then others. Finding powder will be tough and there are lots of good loads available. I would add SOLO 1000 to the list of things to try.
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I cant see the head stamp but that's also what happens when sometimes when you shoot a 9mm load, loaded in a .380 or 9x18 case in a 9mm. The primer starts to back out, then the case slams back on it. It can create the illusion of excessive pressure. If you shoot 9mm in a .38 super you also get the "drastic pressure" illusion.
Note that at one point this case was shot out of a H&K. Im not sure if the both the pistols and subguns have the fluted chambers but I know the subguns do.
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I would suggest that you start with 190 SMKs and IMR 4064 and see what happens. Do some research and you can find some old NM loads out there. Alternatively, buy one box of federal GM with 190s and shoot that box to see what kind of groups you get. Those combinations are proven winners and if the rifle does not group well with either one of them its time for a new barrel plain and simple. I should think the Hornady bullets will work but they are not the KNOWN quantity.
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Gents and ladies,
I am quite interested in all of this. The past part of the puzzle for my next rifle build is a barrel. I am set on a 18" and possibly a 20" barrel. I have been shooting NRA highpower and NRA Long range for a very long time. Over the years I have had the opportunity to rub elbows with some of the greatest shooters (non 3G type of shooting) and there are/ is always lots of discussions over rifles and rifle barrels, powder, bullets etc. When it comes to barrel requirements NRA highpower and LR is much more demanding then highpower, and both are significantly more demanding then 3G will ever be. Over these years I have also developed a healthy skepticism of accuracy claims; I simply will not believe you if you tell my your XX factory XX shoots 1/4 MOA all day long.... This just does not routinely happen with factory rifles with 75.00 barrels, there is a reason that a premium target barrel blank costs over 300.00
My background as a target shooter also means that I want to see quantitate data, so " Not one miss on that LR stage, it must be a good barrel..." means little, neither does " I hit the 300 and 400 targets on my first shots, so that's an accurate barrel..." , its data that makes the difference, groups with ammo and a given range on paper, that tells the story.
I am confident that this single greatest contribution to how accurate an AR rifle is going to be is the Barrel and more then anything else, the blank that made the barrel is what matters, not who turned the barrel and chambered it. In practical terms, in an AR there is not a difference between a .223, .223 Wylde and 5.56 (yes there is some effect on pressure). I also know that barrel length has some effect on accuracy but more of an effect on velocity. Short barrels will shoot better given that there is less of a chance for an imperfection in the bore with less barrel, this is why BR barrels are short. Highpower barrels are long as we want to milk that last 50 FPS out of a .308 Palma rifle.
I also know for a fact that the longer the operating system is on an AR then less peak pressure is generated. I should think that even with an adjustable gas block on a carbine gas rifle you can adjust the amount of gas, but the pressure is still higher. the result is a faster operation of the bolt which can be tuned down. I have noticed that the perception is that the longer the gas system, the softer the system feels.
SO... All this tells me that I am to be skeptical of lightweight barrels. Experience suggest tells me that light weight barrels heat up faster, they are "whipper" and are more prone to be less accurate then an equivalent heavier barrel and much more prone to be less accurate after heating up. I believe that a longer gas system will feel softer BUT you might have to shoot sufficiently "hot" ammo to make it run reliably (or use LW parts). I am skeptical that any kind of barrel coating is going to make a barrel shoot any better at all. A harder barrel surface SHOULD wear more slowly which should reduce wear and this SHOULD extend the practical accuracy life of the barrel longer. The harder barrel surface SHOULD also make the barrel easier to clean and should resist damage from cleaning better then a softer barrel.
I hear, and have herd claims that XXX treated barrel will last XX,XXX rounds, what we don't hear is the definition of "last" and this...is the real question. I want to know what the groups look life when the barrel was new and after XX,XXX rounds; at a certain point a throat will get so rough that bullets will come apart but this is more of a concern with thin jacket target bullets. As an aside, typically as a barrel wears the ES and SD begin to creep up a little too but this is not a concern for 3G.
I am excited to try a treated barrel when I get back and ill be sure to chime in with results
my .02
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Have you tried factory ammunition in your pistol? with your reloaded ammo, does it function in other pistols?
If they are STI like magazines, and they DO NOT have spacers you might try loading the 9mm a little longer and see what happens.
Failure to feed is often an ammo length or bullet shape issue.
Failure to extract is related to brass that has not been sized enough, are you saying the pistol fires and the gun stays locked in place, or fires and the extractor rides over the case?
I don't know much about Bul M-5 pistols at all....but... there are lots of bargain 1911 / 2011s out there that just plain have issues....
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I think that you are going to wear your dies a little more with steel then brass. Many steel cases have a coating on them. The case steel is softer then the carbide of your die so I should think that increased wear would be minimal at best. I just don't see a reason to do it other then you could pick up your cases with a magnet after a shoot....
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1. Do some search on the forums and consult a few load data sites.
2. See what powder you can find or order
3. Refine your search online on this or other sites. There is LOTS and LOTS already written on this topic and no need to repeat, just search the forums.
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I shoot a 9mm STI 2011 tactical for 3G. I have been shooting 147's with solo for some time. SOLO is cheep and fills the case. Recoil feels "soft" and it does not burn hot like some others. It does very from lot to lot.
I used to shoot 147 lead, then coated and some FMJ and now all I shoot is 147 FMJ out of my 9mms. In truth I can tell a difference in recoil less in the STI between 124s and 147s but there is a slight difference. Keep in mind I have whatever factory spring is in my STI 9mm. the FMJ bullets do cost a little more but it does keep the gun cleaner. All bullets shoot about the same. The FMJ smoke the least.
SOLO does not smoke much with lead or coated bullets and if you are going the naked lead route, powder and lube on the bullets have lots to do with that.
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I would defer you to longrange.com or another highpower rifle forum.
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My first 3g rifle wore a 12" larue hand guard. I suppose it was mostly because I did not exactly know more or better at the time. The Laure hand guards are great but they are heavy and if you are not going to mount anything on them, then its a little bit of a waste. I switched from that to a JP 12" and it was a marked improvement. I liked the rigid system, it is lighter, and a little less expensive. Shortly there after I switched the 12" out for a 15". All this time my rifle got heavier and heavier. With the 15" I made a hole in the side to adjust the gas block and added an AP QD button on the side.
My new build will wear an AP CF handguard with an AP qd button on the side. I have not thought about a light option. If I was to do it over, and I might switch it out there are several good options from SLR and BCM.
The Troy rails are another good slim option for the money.
Provided its a free floating and rigid system I should think that you look at weight, girth and what if anything you want to attach to the rail.
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If I recall with SOLO 1000 and WW 231, the wolf SR gave me another 20 FPS with the same powder charges.
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I shoot SOLO 1000 in minor 9mm w. 147 FMJ and .40 Major with 180 coated. I think you could do .45 major without an issue. I think you CAN do it with WW231 but I have huge velocity swings in .40 with that powder and 180g unless I used a MAG SP or SR primer.
SOLO was already my go to 9mm powder. I tried it in .40 and it worked as well as anything else.
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I dare say I have loaded much more in commercial cases with several 155's in a palma gun. I suspect that the throat on your rifle is very long so you will have to see what happens. The bullet does have a short bearing surface. With a 20" don't expect to get 3K FPS with those 155's.
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I highly suggest that you run a ballistics program with what ever bullet you think you want to shoot. I believe that you will find that past 300 yds or so the heavy bullets will pay off. Remember that 2.5" might not sound like much when comparing wind drift between a 55 and 77 at 400 yds but 12.8" for the 55 and 10" for the 77 is a 2.8" or 28% reduction in wind drift. It gets "better" for the 77 after that.
You will also find that bullet weight also translates to retained energy. I find that the heavier bullets take down larue's easier and while this is subjective, the 77 does retain more energy at range.
JBM has a great ballistic program and you can build your own charts. I have found that drop is about the same with my 77 and 55 but the 77s get the nod for bucking the wind much better.
If you cant get your rifle to shoot the bullet well then there is no reason to shoot them unless its on real close targets and if they are key-holing, yes, a lighter bullet is in order.
It is very common for light bullets to shoot very well in fast twist barrels (52/53 match) in a 1-7 20" ar barrel.
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1. Yes, most bi-metal bullets are steel bullets with a copper wash, so yes you are running steel on steel in a barrel.
2. I said "don't compress as well" which is true, but not the best way of describing the lands engaging the bullet. In many cases, can be or is completely compressed with a smaller than .224 bore. .308 target barrels commonly reference the bore diameter as well, and with a .308 Palma barrel this is expressed as a .3075 bore or .298 depending on who makes the barrel but they are both "tight bore" barrels. This helps when shooting out of spec of inconsistent ball ammo. If you shoot a 55SMK in the same load as 55Hor FMJ, the 55 FMJ generates more pressure because the copper jacket is thicker. (this assumes the bearing surface is the same). With a pistol, it takes less powder to push a lead bullet to a given velocity then a jacketed bullet.
3. The force that it takes to compress a bullet depends on several factors including and not limited to the jacket material and thickness as well as the bullet "fill" material.
4. A more recent example as we don't shoot AP much any more: In order to make the M855A1 balistically the same as M855 ammunition the new M855A1 bullets have to be driven to the same velocity as M855. Because the M855A1 bullets are not lead core (keeping things simple), the result is higher pressure ammunition.
5. So, if you drive a harder bullet (AP, bimetal, Barnes, solid. etc) to the same velocity as a traditional bullet, you will raise pressure and therefore increase barrel wear.
reference AP I am talking something along the line of .30-06 M2 AP or M955, not M855 which does have a steel penetrator but is NOT AP ammunition.
**Do what ever you want BUT if you go from a traditional bullet to a Solid copper bullet and don't reduce your powder charge I suspect you will blow a primer or worse.**
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Is your rifle properly lubricated? Are you running quality magazines? These are the most common causes of AR issues.
Most of the time you can have lots of gas leaking around the barrel and things work fine. This is provided you have a .750 ish OD barrel and .750 ish ID gas block. I would think about pulling the gas block and making sure everything is all lined up. If your buffer and some parts are no name there is a chance that you have some part incompatibility. I once bought a gun-show put together AR...I ended up having to replace most all parts and re-chamber the barrel to get things to work.
I cant see the pics, what are the stats on the parts in the rest of the rifle. Define short stroke: Does it eject completely and then fail to chamber a new round, does it chamber some times.
You say its hard to charge: if its a carbine buffer are you sure you are running a carbine spring? There is a difference between Hard and rough and hard but smooth (phrasing I know) which is it. Hard and rough can indicate parts not matched as well as they could be; look for unusual wear. ARs should run, they don't need to be "broke in"
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In general you should not shoot bullets heavier then 180g with hot loads in an M14. the reason is that you can crack the receivers on the rifle and yes it does happen. Most of the service rifle teams shot hot OLD sierra 180g bullets in M14's. A few of them did wear out and or crack. These loads were reserved for the 1K line only and not shot across the course. I believe it was a stout load of IMR 4064 in a LC case. This was years ago, the 180g BTHP was modified and or discontinued at some point. A vented "piston cap thing" I think its called.... will vent some of the gas and make a softer shooting rifle, in general the M14 is over gassed anyway. The porting also has a more noticeable effect in that you brass does not stretch as much.
In a M1 Garand you should use care and use power in the 4895 to 4064 range. This in the correct general old guidance. It is still true, but as not all that many shooters shoot M1's any more, there has not been as much data with Varget and the like. I know IMR 3031 works as well. In a Garand you should limit bullets to 147-190. The danger is that you can bend the OP rod in the rifle. the rifle will still function fine, BUT a big part of tuning a NM M1 is to properly bend the op rod. I don't know how to do this but its a real thing that is done so that while in recoil the rod does not connect w. the stock. If you run powder too slow you can bend the OP rod in a way as to "sour the accuracy" Back in the day when a NM M1 went "sour" this was a common thing to check and or replace.
In general with a M1 you are best to stick with surplus ammo or special handloads. I think that federal and Hornady now make ammo special for the M1 with the correct burning rate powder. Shooting hunting ammo in an M1 can damage it.
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I have a 550 and a 650. The point of the post was two fold: One, depending on what happened to the guns it might not have been a double charge bust could have been a case failure. Two; even with the powder its hard but not impossible to double charge a case and bulkier powders help but don't prevent this.
Actually blowing up guns with a double charge is "easy" with some of the older .38 special (not .38/.357) target revolvers and bull's-eye. This is a catastrophic failure with a blown apart cylinder and strap.
A double charge of bull's-eye in a 1911 target load will "usually" not destroy the pistol, the case will fail and blow the grips off and magazine out.
Even though the post is old it is still interesting. I am also Deployed at the moment and cant shoot or reload so this is as close as I can get.....
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I have had some 210 bergers shoot impressively small groups in a palma gun at 100 yds. Most of the time if the bullets will shoot they will shoot. Occasionally you will get a 1 MOA load at 100 yds that's still 1 MOA at 600 yds, most of the time groups open up with range. I have witnessed bullets corkscrew down range from the 600 yd line....all the way into the x ring time and time again. Provided you have the ability conducting load development at longer ranges is better and the "spread" from a ladder test on target will be more telling.
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Ok, I might have missed something here. I must ask the question again; how do you know that it was a double charge? Did you pull down all the ammo and find a double charge. Even with a 550, if you two stroke it, your going to have an idea that something is wrong as when you size a sized case, it will be easier then normal to do. 6.2g would fill the case way up, and you might notice that.
I say all this because with out looking at the cases its hard to know if it was a double charge or a case failure and these are two different things. If...you picked up someones well worn 9mm major brass and reloaded it, you could have a case failure. If it was really hot 9mm major brass thins might could do it.
Is the primer real-real flat? What does "blown up" mean? Are we talking pieces or are we talking blown out magazine and broken plastic glock frame?
I say all this because I "blew up a 2011", well actually, I had a case failure. The case split at the bottom of the case, the grip blew apart and the magazine blew out. IF it had been a steel 1911, it would have just blown out the magazine and magazine catch. There was no other damage to the pistol.
Its just a theory. After that incident, and just to be safe, I replaced a bunch of the parts in the pistol as it was used and checked a few things over. Soon after I also bought a 650 and put in a powder check die.
I use SOLO 1000 and a double charge would spill over. In 9mm Minor with a 147 im almost filling the case as it is.
Action Shooting BEginner, pistol choices...
in Miscellaneous BEginners
Posted
Welcome to the world of competitive shooting; its a great place to be but it is a far cry from a day on the range plinking away. Your primary concerns should be that you are a safe shooter and know the safety rules of the game, and that your pistol and ammunition that you plan on shooting run 100%. I have seen too many new shooters be utterly frustrated because they "got yelled at" for violating safety rules and never came back or brought guns and ammo that would not run.
You will also need to know how to operate your firearm under a small to moderate amount of stress; for example, plinking away with a 1911 and running one hard on the clock are different things. I suffered through a whole squad with a new 1911 shooter that allowed the recoil to press the safety onto the top of his hand mid-string of fire. He simply did not have a good grip technique to contend with the recoil...After we told him how to fix things, his last few stages went much much better.
I cant comment on CZs etc. but I do think that its easier for newer competitive shooters to run one of the plastic pistols in 9mm then most others. Yes, some come out and run 1911s like a champ but I have not found it as common.
If you love 1911s then run one of those...just make sure it runs!