3GunF1Guy

If you look at my crono results you will notice that the ES is better than with the N320. When I loaded both of the loads I just dump the powder in the Dillon powder measure and loaded ammo. I did not do anything different than I normally do when I reload. I just used 10rds of the E3 out of a batch of 200 rds that I used at a match on Saturday. I find Alliant's responce a little ... weird about the powder and a progressive press. Most, if not all shotgunners that reload any volume do it on a progressive press. But I did test the drop of E3 when I started to think about using in my Dillon. Because I did have the same concern, "Would it throw well". I used a Pact electronic scale and would throw a charge into a case then dump it in a pan, for a total of 4 throws, then measure the charge. After 6 times I stopped. Here are my results. #1 17.0gr - going fast #2 17.1gr - going fast #3 17.0gr - smooth and soft #4 17.1gr - smooth and soft #5 17.0gr - jiggle and hit press after each throw #6 17.0gr - jiggle and hit press after each throw To me it looked more than good. No matter how fast or slow I went it was very consistent. Scott

Here is some of the cases I started with. They were all loaded with 4.5gr E3 and a Fed sr primer and loaded to 1.177 long. I listed the diffrent bullets in each case next to them. Scott

Just for fun lets say that E3 is Red Dot. The amount of data available for Red Dot is huge. It has also been used for many years. If you look at the Red Dot data I am WAY below the current listings by Alliant. For example in Alliant’s 2004 reloader guide it shows a 180 gr JHP load of 5.5gr Red Dot at 1015 fps and a 190gr JHP load of 5.4gr Red Dot at 955 fps. My loads of 4.1gr of E3 including it's 10% more powerful charge is way under max. Also remember E3 is a new powder, I have an 8lb container with a lot #4 Jun 03 on it. In the past 100 years since unique and 50 years since Solo 1000 was made there have been huge advances in chemical modeling and formulation. Just look at the pharmaceutical industry. Yes E3 is a double based powder but Alliant claims is the cleanest burning powder made. If we relied on our old ways of thinking we would say that a double based powder is always dirtier than a single basted powder. We can no longer assume that. We may also have to revaluate our thoughts that a double based powder can spike theory. Before you knock it go buy a 1lb bottle and give it a try. Scott

I have noticed some of the charts show Red Dot to be faster than N320 and some show them close. Give it a try and then you can decide how fast it is. But like I said Handloader Magazine in their review of N320 said that it was about the same speed as Red Dot. Also I could not tell you how snappy the gun is when compared to N320. I do not have that skill level in my pistol shooting. I do have some brass I could take a picture of and show you the primers with the test ammo I did witha 4.5 grain charge of E3. I'll try to post it tomorrow. Scott

I have been using N320 for a long time. I like VV powder but lately it has gotten harder and harder to keep using it. It has gotten more expensive and no one in my area carries it on the shelf except every once in a while you can find the 1lb cans of it and then it is priced at $23.00 per lb. I could mail order it, Powder Valley carries it for 73.95 per 4lb container and right now (08/06/2007) they are out. Still it is EXPENSIVE. For example 8lbs of Tightgroup is only $94.00. So I started looking around for a powder to replace N320 with. Tightgroup came to mind. But my experience with Tightgroup in the shotgun did not make me very fond of wanting to use it in my pistol. To me it seemed dirty and had a sharp recoil impulse when compared to Red Dot. The felt recoil with Tightgroup is so bad I still have 3lb out of a 4lb container left and I will NOT use it again in the shotgun. I want a clean powder that throws consistently and smokes as little as possible with lead or polymer coated bullets. I also want it to cost less than N320. So I started looking around at the powders to switch to and what I wanted was a powder that was like what I use in my shotgun, clean, inexpensive, clean, throws well and clean. The powder that I use in my shotgun is Alliant E3, I love it in the shotgun, So I thought I would try it in the pistol. I shoot a SV 40 cal pistol. I have been loading Precision 185 grain poly bullets with 4.25 grains of N320 to a length of 1.171 To make the switch to E3, I needed a powder charge to start with. E3 is the same burn speed as Red Dot but is about 10% more powerful grain for grain. I took the Red Dot info and guesstimated a powder charge to shoot the bullet at the speed I wanted, then I dropped that by 10%. I started a 4.5 grains and after a couple of crono sestions here is what I have so far. This first group is my N320 load loaded on a 650 just doing normal reloading. It is here for comparison to the E3 load. 4.25 grains N320, Precision 185 grain poly bullets, CCI SR primer, 1.171 long Millennium Data Collector - 8/5/07 GROUP #1 1) 867.6 -28.0ƒ 2) 895.8 0.2 3) 883.0 -12.6 4) 904.2 8.6 5) 894.8 -0.8 6) 909.6 14.0 7) 910.6 15.0 8) 882.2 -13.4 9) 910.2 14.6 10) 898.4 2.8 High: 910.6 Low: 867.6 E.S.: 43.0 Ave.: 895.6 S.D.: 14.2 95%: ±10.7 This second group is my E3 load loaded on a 650 just doing normal reloading. 4.1 grains E3, Precision 185 grain poly bullets, CCI SR primer, 1.171 long GROUP #2 1) 931.2 0.6 2) 927.4 -3.2 3) 927.8 -2.8 4) 919.8 -10.8ƒ 5) 929.0 -1.6 6) 930.8 0.2 7) 926.0 -4.6 8) 939.8 9.2 9) 941.4 10.8ƒ 10) 933.4 2.8 High: 941.4 Low: 919.8 E.S.: 21.6 Ave.: 930.6 S.D.: 6.2 95%: ±4.7 Both of these were shot over the crono within 3 minutes of each other. 95 degrees, sunny, slight breeze at about 4800’ of elevation. The E3 for will result in a lower powder charge that N320. I will probably end up at somewhere around 4.0 grains of E3 for a major power factor load. I know this is hard to believe but if you look at the data the SD and the ES is lower with the E3 load. I shot 200 rds at a match on sat (8/4/07) and the powder was clean. I does the same thing in my pistol as it does in my shotgun. I just gets a light brown color on it not black like the N320 does. Also it seemed to smoke less than the N320, and that is not much to start with. When Handloader magazine tested N320 they listed E3/Red Dot at about the same burn speed. I noticed no pressure signs with E3. The E3 list of advantages for me is these: Cost less – N320, $78.95 for 4lbs plus hasmat and shipping. E3, $110.00 for 8lbs at Sportsmans W. down the street. As clean or cleaner.- Alliant claim E3 as the CLEANEST POWDER MADE. Lower powder charge. Smokes less – Remember this is a shotgun powder made not to burn the hulls or plastic and paper wads. So it should smoke lead and poly bullets less. I loaded 10 Lasercast 180gr lead bullets with E3 and they did not smoke at all. Better ballistics- Better SD and ES. On some of the shotgun forums I have read where shotgunners like E3 in the extreme cold because it is the most consistent over a wide range of temps. More volumetric than N320 – The E3 took about 1.5 turns on my Dillon powder throw to get up to 4.1 grs. It fills the case more, also I noticed that grains do not “jump” out of the case like N320 does when reloading on my 650. Made in the USA I am going to try E3 for a while or until I can find a good reason to go back to N320. Like they start carring down the street at Sportmands and the price is cut in half. Scott

Love Brian Eno!! But you can not forget Roxy Music (keyboard and synthesizer player) and Devo (producer) when you bring up Brian Eno. Scott

WOW I'm in for a wait next time.... Scott Peterson (and no my girlfriend is not Amber, and Yes my wife is alive.) I still get questions.

Federal Register July 9, 2007 SUMMARY: OSHA is extending the comment period for its proposed standard on Explosives for an additional sixty (60) days until September 10, 2007. WE GOT OSHA's ATTENTION! Thanks All who made Comments and contacts to your legislators, News media, Talk Shows and Associations. This now allows more detailed replys to be prepared and ... FURTHER GET THE WORD OUT to all involved parties. No Slacking off though ... PLEASE!!!!! This is a very important topic to us all Also, this probably gives OSHA more time to post the thousands of posts that have been made. If you have not commented please do so!!! http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01...07/E7-13198.htm

I made sure I put something in the "company" then it would work for me. Scott

The NSSF just put this on their web site. http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=...PR=BP070207.cfm I hope more people see it and respond or we are in big trouble. This reloading forum may become irrelevant and useless if something is not done. Scott

I can't believe there isn't 10 pages on this subject. We could get screwed with this. It will almost be imposable to ship primers, powder or ammo if this regulation goes through. It will almost be imposable for any of the companies that you buy powder, primers or ammo from to have it shipped to them. And almost no way for you to mail order it. We could almost be out of the shooting sports with this. Here are some instructions on how to post your comments to osha on this regulation. I copied these instruction from Mike Power over at Shotgunworld.com. I'm sure he wouln't mind if I posted them here. Here is the link to the posts on shotgunworld.com http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic....asc&start=0 OSHA-2007-0032 Also, I highly recommend we all go to www.regulations.gov Once there, scroll down until you see Option 4 in the Search Documents box. Click the drop-down menu and select Document ID and then enter the docket number I listed above into the search field and run the search. That should bring you to a page that will list a whole bunch of attributes of the notice across the screen. On the right side, there's a column for Comments and in line with the information for the document there is a little yellow bubble and the date the comments are due: 07-12-2007. Click the yellow bubble, fill in the necessary blanks and submit your comments in the box provided. Small bit of advice: be nice. This a government agency that we're dealing with and unfortunately, how much power they have is only limited most times by how much they choose to exercise. BE DIPLOMATIC. In clear, concise, neutral terms, state your opposition to the proposed regulations and why. It is unlikely you will be opposed to the whole of the proposal by OSHA, but if you don't have time to read the whole thing, just state your opposal and why. "Unauthorized," "arbitrary and capricious," and most importantly, "unnecessary and illegal burden on the flow of interstate commerce," should find their way into your comments. The regulation of interstate commerce is exclusively the privilege of Congress and it's one they DON'T delegate. Getting into that area is the only likely way to defeat the transportation regulations. Scott

Take the 20 It has been repaved and is the fast way to get from the 89 to I-15

Burn rate and density ARE NOT related!!!!! Do not ever load based on volume. (even though we do) You always want to load with a weight charge. E3 is 10% denser. Weight for weight it requires 10% less powder to do the same amount of work. I don't know if you would call it denser or 10% more energy per grain of powder with the same burn rate as Red Dot or Promo. When ever you purchase a container of Promo you always need to weigh the charge and change the bushing or the powder bar setting to get the weight you want. Promo's density changes from lot to lot due to the fact it is a blended powder that Alliant makes up to get rid of over runs of bulk powder. Thats why is it less expensive. E3 just requires 10% less weight than Red Dot does, but it still has the same burn rate and speed. Scott

Red Dot/Promo and E3 have the exact same burn speed burn speed but E3 is about 10% more dense than Red Dot. Make sure you start with a weight charge of about 10% less powder. And yes it is clean. 500 rds through the Browning Gold and the gas system is just a light gray color. 100 rd of Estates/Federal and it is black. Scott

E3 is the same burn speed as red dot and promo. But you can not use it the same as red dot it is 10% denser. So if you are using 4.5 grains of red dot/promo you need to use about 4.05 grains of E3. I can conferm that it is VERY clean. I use it in my shotgun and love it. Scott

Ignore almost all of the info that you get about scanners there is only one thing that matters when it comes to good scan quality and that is the Scan Density of the scanner. It is referred to as the D-max. A scanner with 3000 dpi and 16 million colors and a D-max of 3.0 will give really bad scans compared to a 600 dpi and 65000 color with a D-max of 4.0. D-max is the ability of the scanner to resolve the differences in color. It has nothing to do with number of colors the scanner will output (16 million, 65k, ect.) A low d-max scanner will not resolve the colors or the details in the shadows or make the black areas black or the white areas white. It is the d-max number that separated the flatbed scanners from the drum scanners. Most drum scanners have a d-max of 4.0 – 4.2. Five years ago the Agfa brand prepress flatbed scanners were in the 3.5 – 3.7 range and the Microtek, Umax scanners were in the 3.0 – 3.4 range. Today Epson claims their 4990 has a 4.0 d-max. That is an impressive number for a flatbed scanner, I don’t know if it will do it because we still scan on a drum scanner, but if it will, that is the scanner to get. Scott Btw, this is what I do all day at work. I own a print shop with offset presses and digital printing. I have seen good scans and bad scans. It is hard to tell people that their fancy 3000 dpi, 16 million color , $500, scanner made that bad scan when they scanned it at 3000 dpi and gave it to me to print and when we print it all of the detail in the shadows is not like their original.

Here is a stunning fact. Only in the state of Utah can you carry a concealed weapon on state school property. It is a state law. A big article ran in the newspaper about our gun laws on school campuses and they said that after some research, we were the only state where you concealed permitted gun is legal on school property. 1 out of 50 .. we need to do better. Scott

I use it for practice. If you want a target at 700 yds, park the truck, walk 700yds with gps, set target, walk back to truck and shoot. Or Mark a spot, DRIVE 1000 yds with gps, set target, drive back, shoot. Acurate to +or- 15'. Can't do that with a laser. And I did say "for target practice it works great". The air is not that thin for me at the RM3G but I'm not going to hike just for fun. That remind me..I better start working out Scott

I too also want one but with the price and for as inaccurate as they are I purchased a Garmin E-trex GPS. Now I mark my spot and walk to the target and see how far it is. WAY WAY more accurate than a range finder and about 1/3 the price. It is not as versatile but for target practice it works great. Scott

Here is a pdf of a file that I use at our Multigun matches. It was created in Adobe Illustrator, I could send you that file if needed. 3gunrules.com also has some excel files that are great to use. Scott Score_Sheet_4_UMGA.pdf

I see all the danged kids these days wearing Clash t-shirts and I try to tell them that they have NO IDEA what it was like to hear the Clash in the late 70's early 80's or how revolutionary they were, the crap hair bands and singers like Tiffany ruled the airwaves, then to hear the Clash, it was like being saved. Even today I put on a Clash cd and it is awesome! Not just the Clash but the Ramones, Talking Heads, Berlin, New Order and of course Oingo Boingo. Scott

Only on some channels like 21, 22, and 24 which are owned by Clear Channel Communications (I think) and they pay to have their channels carried on XM. I almost can not stand to listen to over the air channels any more. The amount of commercials is overwhelming. In my BMW I can scroll through the channels on the air and all 6 presets will have commercials about 25% of the time. I have never scrolled through and never gotten only music on my 6 presets. If XM was double the money I would still pay it. Until you live with CD quality music, the variety, the depth of the play lists and no commercials on all but 3 XM channels you will never know what a good deal $12.95 a month is. Of course it helps if you are a music lover. What is better than 40's big band, old school jazz, Blues, or 80 alternative. Scott

I like it because I only have to remember two things. 1-turn gun over. 2-jam shells into mag. DONE! btw, I load the gun Bennie Cooley style. Scott

That is the powder tha Black hill uses for their 68, 69 and 77 grn 223 bullets. I use it in my 68 grn 223 load and it shoots great. It is also inexpesive when compared to other powder. But I know of at least two shooters that have tried it in their 308 and could not get it to group very well. Scott

+1 I love my Gold...But if your not willing to work with the springs, get the SX2. Almost the same gun except for the speed load. Scott