Chuck Anderson

Minutes are up and public from the last BOD meeting. Just to let everyone know the BOD made a few changes to Division rules that will take effect Jan 1, 2013. (Note 2013, not 2012). There is a requirement to post notice of the changes in Front Sight and have period of time before they take effect. With publishing deadlines it would have taken us to the middle of the competetive season. Instead of making people monkey around with their guns mid season we set them to take effect in 2013. The items dealing with rules were the changes to Limited, Limited 10, Single Stack and Production. We did away with the requirement that 500 units be produced for L/L10. Single Stack and Production will have language added to disallow the use of magnetic magazine pouches. The other change in Production is a 3 pound trigger pull requirement for the first shot. Take a look at the minutes and addendums for Lim/Lim 10 for specific information about the changes.

Whew, minutes of the last meeting are finally up on USPSA.org. Included are changes to the Limited/Limited 10 Divisions removing the 500 unit requirement. The changes do not go into effect immediately. There had to be a posting period in Front Sight which would have put the earliest effective date in the middle of summer. Rather than messing with it in the middle of the season the effective date will be Jan 1, 2013. Should give everyone time to get new guns built if they really feel the need to. Short answer, 5" Sighttracker in .40 legal now. 2013, whatever you want (in compliance with the rest of the rules)

IPSC Shotgun shooters have used ridiculously long shotgun tubes for years without issue. It's just a matter of knowing your gun. Of course IPSC has now changed that so they get to buy all new equipment.

Oh, I don't know about that. I heard some fat guy won Area 1 shooting Minor last year in Single Stack. That said, the numbers of guys shooting Minor in Single Stack is minimal. A few percent as opposed to the much, much higher percentage of minor shooters in Production now. I view Production as a division for competetive equality. There are literally dozens of guns that could be used, in multiple calibers, at realtively low cost. There is no capacity race. I also view new shooters a bit differently than what most of the posts have been about. I break them down as first time shooters and new shooters. First timers are the ones that come out to the range with whatever they have, shoot their first match in Limited minor with a Ruger P85, or a Kahr K9, or whatever they have. The vast majority of these shooters will not become USPSA members. They shoot, they decide the don't like it, they don't come back. It would be great if they all stuck around but that's probably not going to happen regardless of how we tinker with Divisions. The new shooters are a category I'm more interested in. They come to their first match they like it and then what. Production gives them an easy entry division. Now they've been to their first match. They've become USPSA members. They have enough knowledge to buy a gun and equipment. Production is a very easy route to take once you start shooting. We have a very poor retention rate when it comes to new members. They sign up, their with us a year, they're no longer members. They might still shoot, but they just choose to not be members because they aren't shooting major matches. To the poster who was upset with the attitude of, it's they way we've always done it, why change. It goes beyond that. Members have said time and again they prefer rules stability. Changing division rules every 6 months will kill us. In addition, if we're going to change division rules, or any rule for that matter we should weigh the positives against the negatives. If there is a strong positive and no, or minor negatives, sure change. I don't think we have that with going to 15 in Production. If it's a push, yeah, we could change and maybe add a few shooters, but we might also lose a few. I'd rather stick with status quo. There needs to be a clear and convincing reason before we start trying to exclude shooters.

It's hardened all the way through instead of surface only like the Benelli part. (At least according to the info a Team Benelli shooter gave me) Allows you to do a proper trigger job that will hold up.

Another thing to keep in mind with the bays. The further back from the berm you are the higher it needs to be to contain rounds fired at the same angle. For example, an 8 foot berm may be fine if your only 10 yards out. But if you're 50 yards back it's gonna look like a molehill. If you're including 300 yard bays in the range plan, that's likely not going to be usable for much in the way of pistol. Oh, and as far as Rio. Avoid that range plan like the plague. Great people there, awesome turnout, wierdest layout I've ever seen. They only have 4 pistol bays for crying out loud.

Brownells has an LPK that doesn't include the trigger, also carries the Geiselle and JP triggers and I think is running free shipping now.

Dude, fat as I am, no one would be able to see it anyway.

Completely disagree. Safe angles of fire is a course construction criteria - not a definition of the line to which you can be DQ'd if your muzzle breaks. There is either 90-degree to the mean intercept or, if there is NO backstop - uprange. You either have a backstop and the 90-degree median, or you have no backstop and it's simply uprange. Regardless of your lateral issue to a reduced angle to the side - You are not going to get the vertical to be anything less than 90-degrees up. There's precedent -- granted under a much earlier version of the (then joint) IPSC rules, specifically affecting the world shoot in Cebu, The Phillipines -- where apartment highrises towered over the back berms.... Y'all can stick your heads in the sand as much as you desire -- and this might harder for the competitors from the western half of the country to grasp -- but there is unrelenting urban/suburban encroachment on many ranges in the East and especially in the Northeast. All I'm really suggesting is that we start a dialogue, with the goal of hopefully brainstorming our way to a solution that allows USPSA to thrive all across the country, for years to come..... Having matches go outlaw doesn't help any of us..... Of course neither does diluting USPSA to the point where it's unrecognizable. I'm looking for that middle ground..... But that precedent from Cebu is specifically why that rule was removed from the USPSA rule book. So that we wouldn't have the CF that resulted from that rule.

I hope you meant female, I'd hate to see you out there in a g-string getting burnt from the sun! Don't you mean a G-string and a High Life visor?

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I don't see a problem with shooters who let the gun recoil. It's not unsafe or against the rules. Next time you go to a match actually watch the muzzles on some of the other competitors guns. I think you'll find that's it's a bit more common than you seem to think.

Because I see women, juniors and smaller stature shooters do exactly the same thing with .40 and .45 caliber guns. It also puts a lot more subjective discretion in the hands of RO's. It's hard enough at times determining the lateral 180. Then to try and add another variable angle ( is the berm 10 degrees or 15 degrees, what about as the shooter gets further or closer to the berm?).

No. And really a bad rule. How about a shooter with a .44 Mag? Not common at USPSA matches but certainly several at our range during non matches. The muzzle frequently goes over the berm during recoil and the finger is on the trigger. The solution in this case was a rule for the club that said the finger had to be off the trigger when reloading or clearing malfunctions. It's already a USPSA rule and alleviated the clubs concern.

Figured you'd bring that up. Yes, I would have preferred to shoot the match in 2 days, with some other Open shooters. Instead I shot first on at least 6 of the 11 stages (yep, had to shoot two of them twice because I went first and they had issues with the stages.) Probably would have been to my benefit to see someone shoot 9 first instead of just shooting from where someone else said to shoot from, not realizing there was no way to clear the edge of the cliff. Took about 30 seconds to get around that little snafu. Would have rather shot Stage 8 with enough ammo to actually have three full mags instead of having to download since when I shot it the first time I found out the right hand Larue was behind a rise and couldnt' be shot from the right hadn position without a lot of luck instead of skill. Just like with every other three gun match I shot I took my chances, shot when I was scheduled and lucked out. Could have very easily gone the other way shooting in rain and wind. I've certainly ended up on the short end of the stick enough times to know what it looks like. It's part of the sport. There is no way to make everything even for everyone. Oh, and really, a few days prior to the match? Not quite sure how factual that is. I shot it Thursday from sun up to sun down. Pretty sure you guys shot Friday right?

Geez, Taran complaining about a hit. Didn't we already see this episode last year? Although I thought the RO was a whole lot better looking last year. Just kidding Taran...well kind of. I'm curious to see how they cover next weeks episode.

It's really not. A one inch target will be next to impossible for an iron shooter to find. But an optic shooter will have a relatively easy shot at it. A 4 MOA target will be relatively easy target but the shooter has to factor in wind and trajectory. Skills that can't be tested at 100 yards regardless of target size. Off topic completely here but we shoot those MGM autopoppers or skinnies at our local matches every month. It's just as hard if not harder for myself and the newbies to hit them at 75-100 as it is to hit the 10" wide by 15" tall MGM flash target at 300. I've timed it in practice too. It takes about 2.5- 3 seconds to drop prone and get a first round hit. Neither is a gimme under the clock. I would have better success with flash targets at 200-300 than I would with auto poppers at 50-100 all day long. Not saying they aren't difficult shots. I am saying they don't test fundamental skills like trajectory and wind compensation. Seems like I keep repeating that part. How does a 100 yard target yet those things?

It's really not. A one inch target will be next to impossible for an iron shooter to find. But an optic shooter will have a relatively easy shot at it. A 4 MOA target will be relatively easy target but the shooter has to factor in wind and trajectory. Skills that can't be tested at 100 yards regardless of target size.

Definitely! For instance the 4 stage 3 gun nation shoot in match had long range shooting on all 4 stages despite the fact that a typical 8-10 stage match has long range shooting on 2-3 or about 25-30% of the stages. It's the easiest way to make the matches harder. What match did you shoot in W.VA? That match was all mid range at most, except for the Barrett. Stage 1 41 yards. stage 2 about 100, stage 3 225, stage 4 under 200. Even if I was goin to agree with you about long range stages, and I don't, none of those stages were long range. Long range tests skills that can not be measured at short range, no matter the size of the target. Wind, distance are all part of actually using a rifle. Weather changes, deal with it. Shoot long enough and you'll get to shoot in all weather conditions. You're not going to make everyone happy. Even if you split the long range stages onto different days people will complain about wind in the afternoon, light in the morning, afternoon, midday whatever. Just sack up and shoot Nancy

My Production setup was a 34 with Dawson Adjusable sights, SJC fit KKM NMII barrel, Tru-Grip, Standard connector with Wolff spring kit, ISMI steel guide rod wit 13 lb recoil spring. Bianchi has a pretty wide range of guns in Production. M&P, XD, Glock seemed to be the most common. Some DA/SA but the trigger pull limit and way the stages are laid out make the Striker fired gun a better choice in my opinion.

Meeting on Monday to finalize details. Should be ready shortly after that.

Atlanta Arms 115 JHP PPC load(Sierra bullet).

No experience with other Glocksmiths but I can tell you SJC did an awesome job rebarreling my 34 before the cup in 2010. Ask them for the NMII KKM barrel and tell them it's for Action Pistol. You'll need to use lighter bullets but the gun will shoot awesome. The first group I shot after getting the gun back was about an inch at 40 yards (longest range I had that day). I'm a big time SJC fanboy.

It's a case by case situation. It's not a hard and fast rule. The rule book leaves it to the President's discretion. I talked to the current president (for 15 more days) about ranges in the section we're talking about instituting this rule. It is a fact his answer to me was, "not only no, but hell no." Not saying he can't change his mind, not saying he wouldn't have a different opinion with different circumstances, not saying Phil will have the same opinion. It is a fact that if Phil asked my opinion I'd tell him to say no. In your experience, how does the exception request get to the president? Does it come from the local MD with a recommendation to approve or not, to the section coord with a reccomendation to approve or not to the area director then to the pres? Does it come from the range BoD to the USPSA pres? Or is there no set way for the request to get to the pres? I'm just curious. I've had a couple requests that have come through the SC's, to the AD and then AD to Pres. I would imagine the individual club could petition the president just as easily if they wanted to get around the AD. I'd also imagine the president would come back to the AD for info on what's going on with that club (not in a bad way, just trying to get input).

It's a case by case situation. It's not a hard and fast rule. The rule book leaves it to the President's discretion. I talked to the current president (for 15 more days) about ranges in the section we're talking about instituting this rule. It is a fact his answer to me was, "not only no, but hell no." Not saying he can't change his mind, not saying he wouldn't have a different opinion with different circumstances, not saying Phil will have the same opinion. It is a fact that if Phil asked my opinion I'd tell him to say no.

It used to be in the USPSA rule book. It's an IPSC rule so when we used to have the combined rule book, it was there, although I think there was a US exemption. I would definitely vote no if it came up again. There are lots of different ways to deal with this other than using arbitrary club rules. Just like when NW Section made the local rule about double tapping steel. The range in this case is going to continue to allow USPSA matches. They met last night and came up with a change in the wording that reloading and movement must be done with the finger outside the trigger guard (sound a bit like an already existing USPSA rule?) The downside with allowing local rules is that there are clubs who just plain don't like USPSA or at least one aspect. I really don't want to travel to different matches, shoot at one where I can't have my muzzle over the berm, another where I can reload on the move, another that doesn't allow drawing from the holster etc. If we allow host clubs to dictate additional rules to govern USPSA matches we end up with an incomprehenisible mashup of rules that no one can figure out. The other potential downside would be liability. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure a few will chime in. If we have say 10 clubs that institute local rules that say no muzzle over the berm at any time. The other 100 don't. One of those other clubs actually has an AD over the berm. Yes it's bad, but I can't imagine someone wouldn't allege negligence because they didn't apply the same local rule as the other few clubs. By everyone using the same rule we can point to that safety record and use that to show how safe the sport really is. The upside to not allowing local rules is it allows us to negotiate from a better position. If we go in and say, well sure we could have the local rule, but we don't want to, the host club is going to pounce on that and institute it. We give them the option. We'll do everything we can to stay here, but we have to follow these rules. Most clubs will reconsider.